Twilight
discussion
Is Stephenie a bad writer?
Angie wrote: "I tried reading Gerald's Game and Salem's Lot, and I can say there wasn't enough content in either to hold my interest. It was far too descriptive for me, and I enjoy a lot of description in the books I read."I couldn't read Gerald's Game either. I got to the point where a dog enters the room and was just over it. I also couldnt read the TommyKnockers. It was to technical and descriptive diarrheah for me. And I LOVED King in Jr. High/High School (many moons ago). I tried to reread The Dark Tower Series and I just couldn't get into it. When I had originally read it, it hadn't been finished. I think I've either outgrown Steven King or moved on. Though It scared the crap out of me, and so did The Shining (I would freak out everytime I had to take a shower and moved the curtain). King will always have a special place in my heart.
~☆ Alice☆~ wrote: "I don't understand why people who cannot even spell or get sentence structure correct feel they can run down Twilight. "Well, If you would like to continue this conversation in my native language, I'm sure I could come out with better spelling and structure ;-)
~☆ Alice☆~ wrote: " It seems to me this group is supposed to be for fans. "To me it doesn't. Why should only fans discuss something?
~☆ Alice☆~ wrote: "You also note the intellectual snobs don't go after books that start out with endless cursing and go on and on! No, they attack Twilight because of jealousy since it is so popular. At least Twilight is a "clean" read.Does it get any praise for this? Not today when people will pay for a book with a thousand curse words. I hope the pendulum will swing again from this sick environment to where its admired if a couple "love each other other for a thousand years"..what a nice sentiment.
"
LOL you are being very funny with this "clean read stuff".
Yes, I'd love to read books without cursing... if those books are about nuns. If books are about high school kids, then I want them to say "fuck", because that's what high school kids do. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
~☆ Alice☆~ wrote: "I think this is because when I first got on goodreads I kept reading put-downs of Twilight here and there. I don't see that for other books but just for Twilight. Haven't you noticed this also? ..."Because never before had such badly written book became so popular.
But don't worry, there is "50 shades of gray" here now.
Jordan wrote: "Really, or are you being sarcastic? If your not, then thanks!"
Really. But most of my communication is in Croatian, so I guessed you would be bored by my notifications anyway.
Now, since this "50 shades" thing keeps entering conversation, I must admit something.I considered that nothing of any social relevance will ever come out of "Twilight", but now I think that I might be wrong.
I haven't read this "50 shades" stuff, but I understand that it is "Twilight" fanfiction, and people say that it is written as badly as "Twilight" or even worse.
But, "50 shades" brings an alternative sexuality issue to focus. It is being introduced to a wide audience, wide as never before. What COULD happen as a result, is an acceptance of a different sexual practices and lifestyles. There is a window for people to become more liberal and more open about their sexual preferences.
So, if this happens in our near future, we will have to acknowledge the contribute of "Twilight" to this social change ;-)
Peace wrote: "ik i must have ask this before. would it be better if someone just ask SM about the whole twi book saga, and find out what she say about it?""Hi SM! Are you a bad writer?"
"I'm not bad, I'm scintilating!"
Jordan wrote: "Lauri wrote: "I think Twilight was terribly written but the host was exceptional so i dont know"I need to read the host..."
srsly?i remember reading the host whenever i wanted to fall asleep sound...
Zoran wrote: "Now, since this "50 shades" thing keeps entering conversation, I must admit something.I considered that nothing of any social relevance will ever come out of "Twilight", but now I think that I mi..."
This comment cracked me up. I would be rather frightened if tons of people started practicing bdsm 50 shades style because they do it wrong in the book. They also have the stalking and Christian is all about pushing her into doing sexual things she isn't ready for or she doesn't even know what it is, which I don't consider consent. I pray that if the masses start practicing bdsm that they do a little bit of research as to what it really is first. I feel that if people followed the model of the relationship in the book then they would revert back to traditional relationships as opposed to more liberal ones where the males word is all and the woman better listen or she may be spanked, or beaten. Sorry for the rant. Completely off topic I know.
Erin wrote: "Sorry for the rant. Completely off topic I know."Well, as I said, I haven't read it.
But do you think that the popularity of "50 shades" might make bdsm more mainstream?
Zoran wrote: "Erin wrote: "Sorry for the rant. Completely off topic I know."Well, as I said, I haven't read it.
But do you think that the popularity of "50 shades" might make bdsm more mainstream?"
50 Shades may change what happens with people's sex lives, but if they are modeling it after the book it won't be BDSM.
It was clear that the woman who wrote the book has no grasp on the lifestyle. I doubt she even interviewed anyone who practices BDSM before writing it.
Zoran wrote: "Erin wrote: "Sorry for the rant. Completely off topic I know."Well, as I said, I haven't read it.
But do you think that the popularity of "50 shades" might make bdsm more mainstream?"
Well, I've spoken to people from BDSM communities and am assured that the portrayal of BDSM in the book is nothing like real BDSM.
Regardless, will it spark an interest? Probably not at this point but it may nudge it a notch towards acceptability (again, it would have helped had it been an accurate portrayal). What I personally also find interesting is the fact that erotica (aka porn) has suddenly found mainstream acceptability and women are reading a book primarily designed to sexually arouse them quite openly in public to and from work.
Even though the book is reportedly shite, I find this kinda cool and/or intriguing, since I'm all for women having sex lives that don't revolve primarily around the man in their life and I'm all for women taking control of what they find erotic rather than men dictating it to them through the visual pornography that they tend to favour.
As a lot of erotica readers are saying though ... ffs there's much better erotica out there than 50 shades, just as there's much better romantic fiction than Twilight.
Zoran wrote: "Erin wrote: "Sorry for the rant. Completely off topic I know."Well, as I said, I haven't read it.
But do you think that the popularity of "50 shades" might make bdsm more mainstream?"
It's possible but I read it and didn't go start practicing bdsm. But that could be because I would be a horrible dominant and an irritated, panicky submissive.
As for mainstream I do believe more people will talk about it for sure and some may even learn what it really is but I don't think we are at the point that it will spark widespread liberal bdsm relationships.
Alex wrote: Even though the book is reportedly shite, I find this kinda cool and/or intriguing, since I'm all for women having sex lives that don't revolve primarily around the man in their life and I'm all for women taking control of what they find erotic rather than men dictating it to them through the visual pornography that they tend to favour.
I agree so very much. I think that a lot of relationships would be more successful if both partners actually shared their desires with each other. Though I am aware that this is only part of what makes relationships fail. It all comes down to communication though and being a passive receiver accomplishes a whole lot of not very much.
Zoran wrote: "Now, since this "50 shades" thing keeps entering conversation, I must admit something.I considered that nothing of any social relevance will ever come out of "Twilight", but now I think that I mi..."
Oh and by the way when I said it cracked me up I didn't mean to imply that it was funny because it was wrong (I don't know if that was what it implied but I just wanted to be clear). I thought it was funny because it is an interesting idea and interesting ideas have a tendency to make me happy.
Also in regards to social change, I think Twilight has already contributed. I could be totally off base here but from what I remember when Twilight came out Young Adult novels didn't get such a huge section in the bookstore. After Twilight came out there was a rash of YA books that came out, a good portion of them not well written and a lot of them telling the same exact story with just little kinks here and there. (Disclaimer: this is a generalization about YA books and there are definitely some that are well written or different and have great stories) So if I am right about the timing, then I infer that Twilight sparked a huge genre of YA books that has changed the way teens and young adults and even older adults view good literature. With my degree in psychology this has the potential to make me go eek this could be destructive. But if I were a sociologist I would say dang how interesting and weird people are.
Edit: If I am wrong feel free to tell me and explain to me why. I also did not include Harry Potter but I do feel that Twilight had more influence in the large amount of YA books that came out than HP did.
Erin wrote: "After Twilight came out there was a rash of YA books that came out, a good portion of them not well written and a lot of them telling the same exact story with just little kinks here and there.."I think that it was Harry potter that opened up the market for Young Adult fiction ... although one could argue that Harry Potter was successful because the YA fiction market was starting to open up. I'd personally be cautious about attributing a massive change to one book - why was Harry potter marketed so aggressively in the first place?
Ditto for Twilight. It was certainly on the cusp of a new market for female teenage romances, but they've always been there and they've always sold well - I think that this is the first time that the paranormal aspect has been utilised successfully, though like 50 shades and erotica, I think that this kind of thing had been popular online for sometime before Twilight ever emerged. not that I'm trying to knock Twilight's influence ... it's an influential book and that's why we're talking about it!
I think if you were a sociologist you'd still be going "eek!" though. Just probably with a different intellectual toolkit.
Alex wrote: "Erin wrote: "After Twilight came out there was a rash of YA books that came out, a good portion of them not well written and a lot of them telling the same exact story with just little kinks here a..."That's funny I put my edit in and then saw your post. After a minute I realized that I totally forgot about HP.
You're definitely right, change can never be attributed to one thing and the Zeitgeist was clearly ready for what JK Rowling and Meyer had to offer. I think it is interesting that people were so primed for these books that they just swallowed them up. I would love to understand what all led to people finding these books to be just what they needed intellectually at that point in time.
Zoran wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Really, or are you being sarcastic? If your not, then thanks!"
Really. But most of my communication is in Croatian, so I guessed you would be bored by my notifications anyway."
oh haha. That's cool though
Nino wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Lauri wrote: "I think Twilight was terribly written but the host was exceptional so i dont know"I need to read the host..."
srsly?i remember reading the host whenever i wanted to ..."
you didn't like it? I'm confused. either people are convincing me to read it, or making me not want to read it.
Erin wrote: "You're definitely right, change can never be attributed to one thing and the Zeitgeist was clearly ready for what JK Rowling and Meyer had to offer. I think it is interesting that people were so primed for these books that they just swallowed them up. I would love to understand what all led to people finding these books to be just what they needed intellectually at that point in time. "Two such literary phenomenona in such a short space of time seems unprecedented, especially in an era in which it had been commonly accepted that people were moving away from reading towards other forms of entertainment (TV, Video Games). it's also quite strange because, beyond an obvious simplicity in prose, plot etc there's not too much in common between the two series that enables one to pinpoint something that's an obvious cultural draw. Harry Potter is quite liberal, Twilight very Conservative ... I'm not sure how much crossover there is between fans of the two books but it seems to me that a lot of Twilight fans enjoy Harry Potter. All the literary sensations of recent times (HP, Dan Brown, Dragon tattoo, twilight, 50 Shades) all have a distinct lack of pretentiousness about them. They wear their popular credentials on their sleev, aren't ashamed of being popular but they're absolutely not geeky either.
I would love to know, too :D
Alex wrote: "Erin wrote: "You're definitely right, change can never be attributed to one thing and the Zeitgeist was clearly ready for what JK Rowling and Meyer had to offer. I think it is interesting that peop..."So this is pure speculation. I wonder if the reason is that it is escapist literature. So we have this industrialized, semi-mechanistic culture that seems to be putting less and less importance on actual people and the importance of community and compassion. We have skyrocketing rates of teen suicides and high rates of depression and other mental disorders such and generalized anxiety among other things. Bullying has gotten worse because instead of it just happening at one place, such as school, it is constant such as on Facebook. We have extremely high rates of divorce, approximately 50% of first marriages end in divorce (this is what I know of for the U.S., I don't know about Europe's rates). So you could say that our society is generally unhappy. It then makes sense for a lot of people to really need something that takes them away from it all and gives them the fairytale ending. I mean people have always enjoyed Disney movies because it lets them imagine that someday prince charming will come sweep them off their feet and take them away from all of their problems, e.g. Twilight. Harry Potter has this poor kid who is being abused by his aunt and uncle and all of the sudden his world changes and he gets to go learn magic which is fun and exciting. Who wouldn't love to be taken away from their dreary depressing lives to place full of magic and excitement?
I doubt that this can account for all of the success but it could be a major part of the popularity. Sorry for the novel.
Erin wrote: " With my degree in psychology..."It's always nice to meet a colleague :-)
Erin wrote: "I would love to understand what all led to people finding these books to be just what they needed intellectually at that point in time. "Could it have something to do with HP? Because "Twilight" came out in the time when HP crowd became adult or older teen. And before "Twilight", on HP fanfic sites there was quite a number of slash fanfic, with various sexual practices?
Zoran wrote: "Erin wrote: " With my degree in psychology..."It's always nice to meet a colleague :-)"
:) Yes it is
Zoran wrote: "Could it have something to do with HP? Because "Twilight" came out in the time when HP crowd became adult or older teen. And before "Twilight", on HP fanfic sites there was quite a number of slash fanfic, with various sexual practices?"
In regards to the fanfic sites I really have no idea. I have never read or written fanfics so all I have is what I have heard. But I do think that is a really good point if I am understanding you correctly. Twilight came out in time for the younger Harry potter readers to be at the point where they were more interested in sexual relationships and looking for the next story to escape into. They were perfectly timed to be accepted by these readers. Though it is interesting that despite this interest in sexual relationships, the readers accepted, as Alex said, an extremely conservative book in regards to sex.
I almost think its popular for ppl to say they dont like Twilight!!! Ok for movies, yes I get it if you dont like the MOVIES but the actual book series is wonderfully written, and the Host as well!! I think shes a wonderful writer!!
Bethany wrote: "I almost think its popular for ppl to say they dont like Twilight!!! Ok for movies, yes I get it if you dont like the MOVIES but the actual book series is wonderfully written, and the Host as well!..."I totally agree! My friends complain about how Twilight sucks so much, but I actually love the books, although the movies don't portray that.
Erin wrote: "Also in regards to social change, I think Twilight has already contributed. I could be totally off base here but from what I remember when Twilight came out Young Adult novels didn't get such a huge section in the bookstore."History says the YA explosion won't last. In the 80s, the horror section of the book store was enormous, and there were a lot of good novels released in that period. It couldn't be sustained, unfortunately, and now the horror section is tiny and filled with King, Koontz, and non-horror vampire novels (but at least they have real vampires, unlike Twilight).
Bill wrote: History says the YA explosion won't last. In the 80s, the horror section of the book store was enormous, and there were a lot of good novels released in that period. It couldn't be sustained, unfortunately, and now the horror section is tiny and filled with King, Koontz, and non-horror vampire novels (but at least they have real vampires, unlike Twilight).Well that will be interesting to see. How long would you say the horror trend lasted?
Erin wrote: "How long would you say the horror trend lasted? "I'd have to say in the early 90s. There was a sort of second wind with the Dell/Abyss brand, and some very imaginative horror that came with it, but realistically the genre began to peter out once the prime movers started drifting to dark fantasy (Barker's Weaveworld and The Great And Secret Show, King's damned Dark Tower, etc.). Altogether, the explosion had to have gone on for about 6-7 years.
Bill wrote: "History says the YA explosion won't last."
Dear god, I hope it doesn't. I have to wade through 90% more trash in the bookstore and library nowadays simply because of YA. And I absolutely detest the way people use YA as an excuse for badly written books. "It's badly written." "But it's YA!" Yeah, getting a little sick of that.
On the other hand, the first series that got me into fantasy, Percy Jackson, was YA. So honestly, I don't know.
Dear god, I hope it doesn't. I have to wade through 90% more trash in the bookstore and library nowadays simply because of YA. And I absolutely detest the way people use YA as an excuse for badly written books. "It's badly written." "But it's YA!" Yeah, getting a little sick of that.
On the other hand, the first series that got me into fantasy, Percy Jackson, was YA. So honestly, I don't know.
Jocelyn wrote: "I have to wade through 90% more trash in the bookstore and library nowadays simply because of YA."That'll happen with any big trend, though. Horror sure had its share of absolute dissaters (hello, anything written by John Saul or V. C. Andrews... come to think of it, Meyers may be the second coming of Andrews, but with slightly less incest...), but publishers eager to ride King's coattails pushed out scads and scads of bad horror novels with garish covers and absolutely ridiculous plots, hoping somehow no one would notice how awful the book was until after they bought it.
I've made it a policy to read up on a book on the internet before I buy it or take it out of my library, because my time is way too valuable to waste on any more Twilight debacles.
Bill wrote: "That'll happen with any big trend, though."
Yep. Twilight also set the trend for love triangles. I. Effing. Hate. Love. Triangles. It seems like I can't read any YA book now without stumbling onto a love triangle. (Even Percy Jackson!!!!!)
Yep. Twilight also set the trend for love triangles. I. Effing. Hate. Love. Triangles. It seems like I can't read any YA book now without stumbling onto a love triangle. (Even Percy Jackson!!!!!)
Jocelyn wrote: "Bill wrote: "That'll happen with any big trend, though."Yep. Twilight also set the trend for love triangles. I. Effing. Hate. Love. Triangles. It seems like I can't read any YA book now without s..."
I'm more concerned with the torture and murder of whole sections of lore in order to make stuff like vampires, werewolves, angels, demons, etc., etc., ad nauseum, kid-friendly. What message is that sending?
"If you look very carefully, you, too, can have a rock-hard, sparkly immortal being to spend eternity with, girls. If you're lucky, you get him to fight over you with a cuddly man-puppy. Don't settle for someone who's merely human!"
If you stop and think about it, there's a very good reason why stakes, garlic, sunlight, etc. are supposed to be the bane of a leech: it's the price you pay for an eternity of sucking blood. Without that "catch," the curse of vampirism is no curse... it's a blessing.
That's something else Meyers screwed up. Given the choice between an eternity of sucking deer blood, with the only down side that you may stand out a bit in the sun, and living a normal life, dying a normal death... what's the catch? Where's the conflict?
She should never have seen print. I'll be glad when she fades back into the obscurity she deserves.
Peace wrote: "in the VD there is love trangles as well, with the 2 bro and elena or kat.."Yes, they almost invariably end in VD. Hate those fucking love triangles...
i dont know, maybe
Carina wrote: "Angie wrote: "It's not becuase it was too intense; I don't mind intense. I just prefer it to be intense and interesting. SK missed the mark as far as that goes for me in both novels I tried. Maybe ..."Carrie is definitely a no go as the movie scarred me for life, but I may give The Green Mile a try. Thank you for the suggestion.
Jocelyn wrote: "Bill wrote: "That'll happen with any big trend, though."Yep. Twilight also set the trend for love triangles. I. Effing. Hate. Love. Triangles. It seems like I can't read any YA book now without s..."
I don't mind love triangles, but I don't need them in every single book I read. Most books I read don't have them as I don't read a lot of YA anyway.
I have to wonder if the trend is taking off because many older women (not old, but older than the target audience for a YA novel) are reading YA novels now, and they find themselves in relationships that have become stagnant and anything to shake up a relationship seems exciting.
I think this contributes to the appeal/popularity of Fifty Shades of Grey as well.
Just my two cents.
Angie wrote: "I have to wonder if the trend is taking off because many older women (not old, but older than the target audience for a YA novel) are reading YA novels now, and they find themselves in relationships that have become stagnant and anything to shake up a relationship seems exciting.I think this contributes to the appeal/popularity of Fifty Shades of Grey as well."
That is probably part of it.
This is based off of my own thoughts of romance and YA and could be totally wrong but I am wondering if the reason YA books are so popular with older women is that bookstores normally have a section that is meant for women, which is the romance section. I feel that there is a big stigma surrounding romance novels because there seems to be a stereotype surrounding women who read romance novels. Most people don't actually fall into that stereotype even if they do on occasion read romance novels. Then comes along all the YA books that are like romance novels without the sex (obviously not all of them) and older women feel more comfortable being the woman who reads YA as opposed to the woman who reads romance (which comes with the assumption that they are very unhappy with their sex life, and probably everything else in their lives). Then comes Fifty Shades of Grey and the response was "finally some actual sex." There is this change where mass amounts of older women are reading these books that most people know contain sex, and they aren't trying to hide it anymore. Like I said earlier, I do hope that people don't start practicing bdsm fifty shades style but I would like it if this book and others helps make it so women aren't so ashamed or embarrassed of being blatantly interested in sex. From an evolutionary perspective it means they are healthy and potentially fertile which is a good thing.
And that's my morning rant.
Angie wrote: "Carrie is definitely a no go as the movie scarred me for life,"Well, that IS the point of horror fiction.
Zoran wrote: "Angie wrote: "Carrie is definitely a no go as the movie scarred me for life,"Well, that IS the point of horror fiction."
LOL This is true. But the scars are a little deeper when you are 9 and the cousin babysitting you makes you watch it. I don't need it ingrained any further into my memory.
Angie wrote: "LOL This is true. But the scars are a little deeper when you are 9 and the cousin babysitting you makes you watch it. I don't need it ingrained any further into my memory. "Why don't you grow up and accept that you were 9 when you were 9 .... ?
(I say that as someone who was too scared to watch horror movies until I was in my early twenties ... and now regret being a baby!)
- Also, I can see why Carrie would be scary to a 9 yr old, but it's not really a very scary movie. It's possibly the best thing from King's legacy that I've had the pleasure of experiencing though.
Alex wrote: "Angie wrote: "LOL This is true. But the scars are a little deeper when you are 9 and the cousin babysitting you makes you watch it. I don't need it ingrained any further into my memory. "Why don'..."
I don't know Alex, I try to watch zombie movies and I just can't. I always have nightmares. I just gave up. Same with most horror movies. But then again, I used to have nightmares that the wicked witch of the west was chasing me and trying to kill me.
Erin wrote: "I don't know Alex, I try to watch zombie movies and I just can't. I always have nightmares. I just gave up. Same with most horror movies. But then again, I used to have nightmares that the wicked witch of the west was chasing me and trying to kill me. "To be honest it's almost entirely down to negative conditioning (we think it's scary because we're taught it's scary_). The first few horror movies I actually watched gave me pretty bad nightmares and I couldn't stop thinking about them constantly. Psycho, Halloween, Ringu ... you just get used to it, the same as you do with any kind of movie violence or sex.
Alex wrote: "To be honest it's almost entirely down to negative conditioning (we think it's scary because we're taught it's scary_). The first few horror movies I actually watched gave me pretty bad nightmares and I couldn't stop thinking about them constantly. Psycho, Halloween, Ringu ... you just get used to it, the same as you do with any kind of movie violence or sex."Or! You could call it desensitization, which isn't necessarily a good thing. If things that are supposed to be scary are no longer scary then some potentially important moral lines get blurry.
Edit: In regards to zombie movies there aren't a whole lot of blurry moral lines that I can think of but sometimes violence and rape scenes do indeed get blurry and should be upsetting. So when people don't find them upsetting it is kind of worrisome.
Erin wrote: "Or! You could call it desensitization, which isn't necessarily a good thing. If things that are supposed to be scary are no longer scary then some potentially important moral lines get blurry. "For what reason is one "supposed" to be scared of a movie? I don't think I've lost the concept of fear and wouldn't feel fear at an appropriate moment if I needed to. Trust me, if I saw pinhead or Freddy Krueger walking down the street I would be mightily shit-scared. I've got no especial reason to be scared of a man in a costume being filmed throwing fake blood on someone - Actually, what I find fascinating about horror films is that they do have the ability to frighten us regardless, they manage to tap into the depths of our psyche that really ought to know better ... and then we snap out of it because it's not actually real.
I think that desensitization is a loaded word there, it sortof implies that we oughtn't enjoy watching horror movies. And to subtly bring this back to Meyer, that kind of keys in to what Bill said about how Meyer twists the vampire mythology into safe-teen mode. Vampires are no longer scary in Meyer.
Alex wrote: "For what reason is one "supposed" to be scared of a movie? I don't think I've lost the concept of fear and wouldn't feel fear at an appropriate moment if I needed to. Trust me, if I saw pinhead or Freddy Krueger walking down the street I would be mightily shit-scared. I've got no especial reason to be scared of a man in a costume being filmed throwing fake blood on someone - Actually, what I find fascinating about horror films is that they do have the ability to frighten us regardless, they manage to tap into the depths of our psyche that really ought to know better ... and then we snap out of it because it's not actually real."I realized after I posted that I was being entirely too vague. I really need to get better at getting everything out at once and not having to edit.
Anyway I think it is great that people enjoy watching horror movies. They're called horror movies for a reason and they are supposed to be scary and I understand why people do like that. Zombies can be scary and like I said in my edit there aren't any blurry lines I can think of. But in regards to violence and rape I do think desensitization is the right word in some cases. If people don't find that upsetting or potentially frightening deep down then it worries me. Western society in general has a way of pushing those things to the peripheral as if it's something that just happens. And it does just happen but I wish people would ask why and not just be able to sit through a rape scene without asking any questions or feeling any negative emotions.
Bill wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Bill wrote: "That'll happen with any big trend, though."Yep. Twilight also set the trend for love triangles. I. Effing. Hate. Love. Triangles. It seems like I can't read any YA bo..."
She didn't screw it up, she made it her own. Not every vampire book needs to have the same trend. I like to read books where the author's change it to their liking.
Erin wrote: "If people don't find that upsetting or potentially frightening deep down then it worries me. Western society in general has a way of pushing those things to the peripheral as if it's something that just happens. And it does just happen but I wish people would ask why and not just be able to sit through a rape scene without asking any questions or feeling any negative emotions. ."I don't think that any of the things that you're referring to are actually to do with the process of watching horror movies, they're to do with people not being educated to understand the ramifications of what they're seeing, whether that's horror films, action film, pornography or even romance films (like Twilight) and it's one of the reasons I think it's so important that people study and try to understand art and artistic expression and how it effects us.
I guess what you're saying bothers me a little because rape in movies/TV rarely equates to "condoning rape" or "being desensitized to the horrors of rape" (or any other kind of violence) and there are more than a few arguments flying around that horror movies are so terrible because we can't be sympathetic towards violence that we can watch on screen. As a horror movie fan, an action movie fan and an ardent pacifist I'd beg to differ, tbh. I think that one is only "desensitized" to it of one doesn't understand real life consequences of real-life actions and I think that the prevalence of rape in society is down to a much broader sexualisation and degradation of women than is restricted to one genre of movie. It's far more about growing up and understanding what it pirpiortedly means to be masculine and to be the kind of person who puts sexual conquest above basic human empathy that leads to the high amount of date rape (or other rape).
I can't think of too manny times I've seen rape onscreen and been led to empathise with the rapist, and if I have I'm asking myself questions as to why I might be being asked to understand the rapist's perspective. If one is watching a slasher movie and viewing oneself as a slasher figure who goes around killing and raping young girls, then I think that one has serious mental issues.
One should feel scared, frightened, horrified, repulsed etc whilst one is watching a horror movie, buit I think that part of the point is to experience other modes of life and to be scared and have feelings that one wouldn't normally experience. I wasn't trying to suggest that one literally becomes a zombie when one watches them - though I can easily watcha horror film now without squirming. Unless it involves eyeballs or fish-hooks - we still have to try and understand the emotions that a movie is attempting to make us feel if we're going to get anything out of watching it!
Alex wore: "I can't think of too manny times I've seen rape onscreen and been led to empathise with the rapist, and if I have I'm asking myself questions as to why I might be being asked to understand the rapist's perspective. If one is watching a slasher movie and viewing oneself as a slasher figure who goes around killing and raping young girls, then I think that one has serious mental issues."I am starting with this. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. I really didn't mean that I want people to empathize with the rapist. I mean that people need to ask why does this happen. Why is this such a prevalent part of our society and why does it keep happening. I want to kick rapists in the nards and a whole lot worse and I understand that things led them to be that way but I sure am tired of excuses. It's not ok and it will never be ok in my book.
Alex wrote: "I don't think that any of the things that you're referring to are actually to do with the process of watching horror movies, they're to do with people not being educated to understand the ramifications of what they're seeing, whether that's horror films, action film, pornography or even romance films (like Twilight) and it's one of the reasons I think it's so important that people study and try to understand art and artistic expression and how it effects us."
This is a very good point and it is very true. That is the biggest problem is the lack of education. Watching a movie will not lead people to do horrible things. It might contribute in a miniscule way but there are so many other things that do contribute a whole lot more. They have shown in studies that children who have inattentive parents and insecure attachment with their parents have a lot more problems with showing/experiencing empathy. And you're right about society and our cultural standards being the base of the issue with regards to how women are treated. I think my issue with horror movies is the prevalence of rape in the movies. And not just horror movies, but many different modes of artistic expression. And I think my issue with it is that it doesn't address the problem of rape as it needs to be addressed. And not just rape, but stalking and other extremely unhealthy forms of communicating. It could be used as a form of education for some people and it isn't always being utilized that way.
Alex wrote: "One should feel scared, frightened, horrified, repulsed etc whilst one is watching a horror movie, buit I think that part of the point is to experience other modes of life and to be scared and have feelings that one wouldn't normally experience. I wasn't trying to suggest that one literally becomes a zombie when one watches them - though I can easily watcha horror film now without squirming. Unless it involves eyeballs or fish-hooks - we still have to try and understand the emotions that a movie is attempting to make us feel if we're going to get anything out of watching it!"
Fish hooks and eyeballs in the same sentence is enough to make me cringe. People like adrenaline and the like suspense, I get that, that's the whole point. I get the feeling we are trying to argue close to the same thing but I'm just making a mess out of my argument. :)
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Oh, it gets interesting. It just winds its way up to it.
It follows a pretty common formula for King's books: Set the scene, and show the reader how the machinery of the scene works; casually toss a large wrench into the gears, and let that wrench slowly work its way deep into the machine; gleefully document the self-destruction.
If you ever decide to retry 'Salem's Lot, drop a thread under its discussions, and I can get you through the first third. As I mentioned, all of that description (especially of the people) comes in handy when the third act comes around: a lot of poetic justice gets meted out, and knowing who did what helps you to understand why certain things happen to certain people.