The End of Bookstores and Printed Books?

[Jessica]

Take a look at this... it makes me sad to think of it...

Take a look

[Kathryn]

It's horrible, Jessica! It makes me feel ill when I think about it. It seems the best thing we can do is shop at independent bookstores and pay full price for our books NEW, but, then, that is also really tough to do in these hard economic times!!!

See my related post, and the comments, here:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

[Liz]

Noooooooooooooo...that is awful. And now things like the "kindle" are coming out, which are little electronic devices that let you buy books (like itunes) and put them on your kindle screen...you still read them, but the words are on a screen, not in the good ol' fashioned bound novel.

I hope the book never becomes extinct! That would be horrible.

[Melissa Rochelle]

I refuse to believe that the traditional novel is dying. We have been on the verge of the e-book device of the future for a decade. It's not going to happen. The technology is too expensive and there are far too many people without access to it. They say that soon they'll develop an e-book that looks and feels just like a book...crap! Just pick up an actual BOOK! I understand that the publishing world is changing, but it's not dead yet! Mega bookstores are destroying independent booksellers, but again...that's just change, not death of the book.

Sorry...I'm in Library School and we talk about this all the time...sometimes I feel like the only one that doesn't want traditional books to disappear. It's nice to see I'm not alone!

[Jennifer]

I don't think that the book will ever die. I worked at a Barnes and Noble for about 2 years and one of the managers insisted that, in a few years, ebooks would take over and no one would want to read a regular book.

I've been an avid reader most of my life. I've tried reading ebooks (specifically a textbook I had to scan into my computer... long story) and audiobooks, and it's just not the same. I like actually picking up a book. Audiobooks I tune out if they're not catching me and holding my attention well. Ebooks hurt my eyes, especially when they're on a computer. I've seen the Kindle (a gal showed it to me last Thanksgiving as we were waiting outside Baker's Square for pies) and, although I can understand why it's nifty, I'd still prefer a book. A mass-market paperback is still cheaper than a download anyway.

But who knows? Maybe the book people will get smart like the DVD/BluRay people and offer a digital copy of their book along with the printed version :-)

[Allie]

This can NOT happen. Just today I walked into Borders and was absorbed into the wonderous smell of books. You can not take books...printed...books away from us. I refuse! The other day my mom was discussing those digital book things and it made me disappointed to think that those could be the next "book." Technically, it couldn't. Picking up books and physically reading them is an experience and one I wish to repeat over and over.

[Dottie]

Meghan wrote: "I don't think books are going anywhere. I'm a librarian, and we're circulating books like crazy. I also own a kindle -- and I don't think I'm hurting anything by it. Don't knock it 'til you try it ..."

Well said!

[Ann]

I kind of think there's two things going on. One is the functionality and accessibility of ebooks. I agree, it would be much easier to carry a kindle on an airplane than two or three books. That said, I can't imagine getting the same cozy feeling of curling up with a cup of tea and a kindle... just doesn't seem quite the same. However, that's a tad off point. What I meant to get at is that the ebook is certainly more functional than real books, simply for storage space (though I, too, find the screens hard on my eyes). Also, I imagine it's much less expensive to send a download than a real book, so the cost of books could end up getting much cheaper.
HOWEVER, the cost of books can't go down TOO much, because the author still has to get paid, and so long as the author is getting a royalty, a percentage of each book sale, how many authors will be able to survive on 8% of $2? Plus, it doesn't matter how much the ebook costs to download, the publishers still have to market the book, and they still have to get the word of their book out there somehow.
Which brings me to the second "issue" (though I'm sure there's many more!) and that is marketing books. I think it's been really interesting what with Harry Potter, because it brought urgency to reading books. The great thing there, is that so many people wanted the book immediately. Wait to find out if Harry beats Voldemort until it comes out in paperback? I don't think so! It seems like book stores are trying to hold onto this, with their midnight release parties. It's a way to get people INTO the book store and to BUY the book then and there. If book stores can keep that blockbuster feel to a few books a year, maybe there's more hope!:D
I certainly hope so. Like I said, for all the functionality of an ebook, I can't imagine reading different books... on the same book....? Plus, what about picture books? Doesn't the style of paper effect the feel of a children's picture book?
Sorry... I really didn't mean for this to be that long...:\

[Ann]

I totally see where you're coming from, Meghan, and I agree. I think there's definitely a place for ebooks in the world. I also agree that, even if there is a place for them, I don't think it will *replace* real books, just give another format for them. :)

I guess the main thing, is so long as people are *reading* books, then that's what is truly important:)

[Tiffany]

One thing that I find concerning as well is the loss of real librarians. Is anybody else seeing an increase in schools in their area who are phasing out librarians? In our area it seems to be the trend for letting librarians retire and then just replacing them with educational assistants who they pay very little and who have little to no training.

[Meghan]

Haven't they been saying the novel is dead or dying for decades? I just saw an article from 2007 saying this. And yet people are still reading. Statistics are showing that adult literacy rates are rising in the US. Book clubs and Oprah have gotten millions of people to shut off the tv for two minutes and open a book. JK Rowling personally rejuvinated the book publishing world.

I think what people are concerned about is the economics. No more HP to have the masses lined up for weeks in bated breath (and while Breaking Dawn has a huge cult following, it's still no HP). Retail was down in 2008 largely in part because they had been depending on HP for years to boost sales. There was no 'big story' for people must buy. So now they all are crying the sky is falling.

The kindle is a great tool to get more people reading. While the machine itself is still fairly expensive for most people, the savings in the book discounts alone, quickly make up for it. And it's not like the ipod in that the ipod allows users to download one or two songs from an album--so producers are losing money. No one is going to download one or two chapters of a book. It actually is helping the newspaper business--most newspapers have to provide their articles free online. Now, they can charge for you to get a "subscription" to download. And people are buying.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29265336/

As for the whole copyright fears of publishers, I have yet to see street corner vendors selling bootleg books. Plagarism is always a fear for writers. The internet is always going to have unauthorized publications of everything. But as many of you pointed out, reading on a laptop is harsh--how many are willing to sit through a 1000 page novel just because it's "free" when you can go to your public library and get a hard copy version also for free? And people who buy kindles right now, tend to be the ones who are willing to pay--so freebies aren't as enticing.

In economic downturn, books are going to go the way of the car--fewer people will buy new. But secondhand stores and libraries will see higher numbers. And with financial pressures growing, people still need escapism, so I believe reading will grow on average too. Not that this helps independent book sellers and publishers. But it doesn't mean the end to the great novel. And yes, another Rowling will show up, just as Dickens and Steinbeck and Upton and Roth all have had their heirs.

Finally, is it really that terrible that the novel change? The world resists change because it's unknown. We like what's comfortable and familiar. But if the technology and interests change, why shouldn't the format change with it? Isn't the true point of the novel to tell a great story? If the story is great, who cares how it's being told?

[Meghan]

Oh and Emily and Tiffany - that's interesting about the librarian issue. I just read American Wife A Novel and I was surprised that she was a certified teacher. My librarians were not, and that's to my loss. Oh if only educators could get more respect in this world.

[Tiffany]

I see some of the advantages of the Kindle, but do you owners not find it hard looking at a screen? I just have such a hard time looking at a screen for so long. But I will say that I was intrigued enough to go and look at th eproduct on Amazon, read some reviews, and think, well, if I had a lot of extra money... I just have such a hard time spending so much money on an item or even new hardback books for that matter.

[Meghan]

Emily - I think you and I differ in the way of what determines new readers. You're right--the kindle is an expensive machine designed (currently) for those with large amounts of disposable cash. However, I know a LOT of people who are well off, educated, yet do not buy a book and read--for a myriad of reasons. I do believe that some of these people can be reached with new technology such as this. And, when looking at things financially, THESE are the people who will buy new books--people who have large amounts of disposable income to spend. So yes, I think publishers should be eager to market to this group. These people help pay for hard copy books getting into the hands of the less financially gifted.

As for me, $9-10 is a big difference for a new release that is normally priced at $19-25. Soft covers are even less. Classics can be priced at $0.99.

But I don't disagree in that the kindle isn't for everyone, which is why I don't believe hard copy books are on their way out. I still love bookstores. I still buy books--both hard cover and soft. The kindle merely enhances my reading experience by allowing more options.

Two examples:
I live in China now, so for me to buy an English-typed book, I have to pay the full publisher's price PLUS shipping. Also, my choices are limited to what the bookstores purchase. I can have books shipped to me, through sites like amazon, but again, the cost of shipping makes it prohibitive.

So owning a kindle, and downloading the books for free is a cheaper alternative for me. (The downloading is free--not the books.)

Secondly, I travel extensively. And with weight restrictions with airlines, packing books is always a pain. I was able to bring 18 books with me on my last trip, curtesy of my kindle. It's small, lightweight, and great when one hand is busy as it always lies flat.

[Meghan]

Tiffany - I have not tried any other e-reader so I can't comment on anything but the kindle. The kindle developed a new technology called electronic paper. It's designed not to reduce glare but eliminate it. And it does. You know if it's really sunny out, sometimes it's hard to read because the light is reflected even on regular paper? Well, that's not an issue with the kindle. I have found that reading on the kindle is gentler on my eyes than even on normal paper, let alone a computer screen.

One of my favorite features is the ability to change the size of the font. Sometimes, wtih dense text, I like to make it huge. For chick lit that I fly through, I make it smaller so I can read faster.

I don't recommend everyone rush out and buy one (yet). It's not for every type of reader. But there are many aspects of it that do make it attractive and can enhance your reading experience.

I think reading is an experience all people should have the pleasure of sharing, so I think those in the book world should embrace new technologies, not fear it. New technology does not mean the end of the old. Everyone thought radio was dead, yet a whole new business sprang up with the satelitte radio.

The kindle may not be something that everyone can afford right now, it's still new. But the idea that one day your child doesn't have to lug home 3 5-pound text books so he can complete his homework, but rather, one small book the size of a notebook is rather intriguing.

And with the keyboard, audio, and usb port features, the future options are even more numerous.

[Dottie]

Kindle may have a problem becoming the ONLY electronic book option given that they are quite late to the "game", don't you think? Those who bought earlier devices may not want to switch and spend more money to do so. And as long as other ebooks exist anyone with any sense will evaluate based on their personal criteria despite Kindle advertising and so on. Just a thought. We recently looked over the Sony offerings -- the older version and a newer one. I'm still not ready for it but boy do I relate to Meghan's being overseas usage -- what a deal the Kindle would have been when I was lugging books back and forth across the Atlantic five years back!

[Dottie]

Emily wrote: "Dottie,
Amazon is already trying to bully authors and publishers into signing e-book deals just by threatening not to provide buying links on their site if they go with another e-book format. As mu..."


Sheesh. Amazon is just TOO big and needs to be taken down a few notches then.

[whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass]

As to Amazon, when I buy a book online I RARELY use them. Granted, first I try bookmooch.com where I can trade, then I would try half.com where they are used, but then I'd likely go to the bookstore sites because they often have deals and incentives - plus I often have gift cards for them! I'd use Amazon for other tings - and do on occasion - but rarely ever for books. So there are some of us who frequently shop online who do not use them as a primary place to purchase books.

As to the Kindle, you know, I love the IDEA of it. But for me, I have such a huge library of books yet to read that I want to get to that I'd be annoyed to have to purchase them again.

What I like is the potential benefits to the environment, the lightweight portability for travel, ability to get a daily newspaper from anywhere in the world... What I don't like (aside from the obvious of actually loving books) is not being able to share a book with someone after you've finished, not being able to find bargain basement deals, and most of all not being able to somehow upload my current library without having to buy again - oh! and especially the potential to loose your entire library if it is stolen/lost! At that price I'd just... die if that happened!

When the costs come down in a few years, I may have a go... especially as even this second generation is supposed to be so much better, so by then it should be streamlined to perfection, like the iPod. See, now there is a machine that you could still use the then current technology with by downloading your CDs - that's what I mean with the Kindle.

But I totally agree that books/novels aren't going anywhere. Please. Ridiculous. Like all news, they jump on the doom-and-gloom mentality. Ugh. Enough already! I have room in my life for an awful lot, and I find I'm versatile enough to value "old-school" books and "new-fangled" technology. Go figure.

[Meghan]

Emily wrote: "I don't have issue with Kindle being ONE option for e-book readers, but rather I have issue with it being the ONLY one which is clearly what they are trying to accomplish.


Emily - I've been thinking a lot of what you said. I really respect your viewpoints. I've been trying to think of ways to phrase my "arguments" without sounding argumentative. Half the fun of RG is being able to discuss different points of views.

So with that said, here we go again:

1. you wrote: I don't have issue with Kindle being ONE option for e-book readers, but rather I have issue with it being the ONLY one which is clearly what they are trying to accomplish.

Isn't that the goal of any company? I would have to say iPod wants to be the only portable music device and they do have a large portion of the market share. However, they certainly don't have a monopoly and the cost is prohibitive for everyone to own one. Their requirements are one of the major reasons why NBC failed to renew their contract. I think the same way can and will go with amazon. Publishers are limited now because few other companies have gone the route of amazon. B&N had just as many opportunities to create and develop their ebook program and e-readers, but didn't.

Also, kindle books are now made available for iPhone and iTouch, which leads me to believe that amazon will eventually open up their books to other platforms once they've established their own machine. I don't believe they will deny a large part of their market share who can't afford a kindle from buying ebooks from their site. So either the kindle will drop dramatically in price once the technology grows "old" or they'll loosen up their restrictions.

2. you wrote:...If anything I think it will go up as demand for print editions decline (Borders and B&N were already in financial trouble before the latest economic problems). The purchasers of electronic won't be buying print, and the market for book purchasing in general is smaller among the economically disadvantaged (incredibly sad but fact).

First, I never said that prices would drop because of ebooks. What I meant is that it would allow them to donate more to literacy-type programs.

Secondly, I don't know a single ebook reader who won't buy print books. When I moved, I moved my entire library--25 boxes worth of books. And I'm still buying more and I know others who are the same. eBooks simply are an additional way of enjoying reading, similar to audiobooks.

3. you wrote: Many textbooks are already online as e-books that are read through traditional web browsers. Virtually all of the textbooks at my school are e-books that don't require a portable device.

I defer to your expertise in this area. I am not in education. However, I do think that while there may be books online, schools are not utilizing them. In my hometown, I see my nephews/nieces/friends' kids carting home backpacks loaded down with traditional textbooks. They're large. They're cumbersome. And they're heavy. Plus, they're out-of-date in just a few years' time.

Not everyone has internet access at home. And while it's growing, not everyone has computers at home either. So while books may be online, kids would still need some sort of device to take home to do homework.

My point is simply that eventually, prices will fall, and the possibility of having an e-book for every student is a fascinating idea. A small portable device that allows teachers to update and upload current subjects SHOULD be the wave the future. Not just books, but magazine and newspaper articles, etc. The student could be issued the e-book in 1st grade and theoretically have it until he graduates from high school.

As Michele pointed out, this would also be a great contribution to the environment (as teachers would no longer have to photocopy articles and handouts).

And the fact it's smaller and lighter than a laptop, makes it more feasible for the younger set.

[Meghan]

Oh and just so you know, with the kindle, if for whatever reason you "lost" a book. You can just reload it (you don't have to pay for it all over again--in that regard it's 1000x better than iTunes). That's because amazon keeps the books that you've purchased in your account. So you can access them over and over again. I like it because with limited memory space, you can delete a book to make room for new ones. But if you ever want to reread the book, it's still there for uploading.

I also think the points of not being able to share and the 'joy' of finding a bargain basement find are some of the main reasons why e-books will never takeover the print world. There is something tangible about print that online/e-books can never replicate, as well they shouldn't.

There is something heavenly about walking into a bookstore or library and "smelling" the books. And while I've hijacked this thread into a kindle debate, I don't want to sound anti-print. I love all books of all mediums and know too many people who feel the same. I mean, goodreads couldn't be this popular if it wasn't. So I just have a hard time believing that a) the novel is dead or dying and b) there is that big of a need to worry about the advent of the e-book/kindle.

[whichwaydidshego, the sage of sass]

Here-here... and really well said, Meghan.

[Meghan]

Well Emily, I applaud your school system. That sounds fantastic--I hope it's working well. It's something I wish more schools could do. The 15-pound backpacks for children are beyond ridiculous, especially since it seems like kids have more homework than when I was in school.

[Meghan]

But just to argue the iTunes--you can ONLY download songs, movies, and audiobooks from iTunes onto Apple products. So they DO have an issue with you using other platforms. However, the market has expanded so the competition is greater and they're not the only ones.

Publishers can choose to opt out of amazon. NBC chose not to renew their contract with iTunes and therefore no NBC show is allowed to be put on iTunes. This denies a huge market share of iPod owners and NBC risks losing millions. But it's a stance they took and so far, I haven't read anything to counter that it was a terrible decision. It's fear of the bottom line that makes most companies be cowed by large corporations, which eventually leads to monopoly-like situations.