2. CAESAR... October 22 ~ October 28 ~ ~ pp. 56-110; No Spoilers Please

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the second week's discussion of Caesar by Colleen McCullough. The threads are always open so folks can participate at any time as we move along and/or as you get caught up. This book even though it is part of the First Man in Rome Series can easily stand alone. You do not have to have read any of the other books to read this one.

The second week's reading assignment is:

Week 2 – Oct 22-28: pp. 56-110

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book is being kicked off October 15th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this selection.

Welcome,

~Vicki


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Notes:

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Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.

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Glossary

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Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc. with proper citations or other books either non fiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self promotion, please.

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Colleen McCullough

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Section Overview and Summary

Gaul of the Long-Hairs (Gallia Comata): January to December of 53 B.C.: pp. 56 – 110

Early in his campaigns in Gaul, Caesar discussed Celtic and Roman religion with Cathbad, one of the chief Druids. Caesar tells him that Rome has no wish to interfere with their religion, but that human sacrifice must stop. Cathbad believes that Roman rule will mean the destruction of the Gallic way of life.

The XIIIth legion is wintering in the northernmost camp at Atuatuca, run by co-captains Quintus Titurius Sabinus and Lucius Aurunculeius Cotta. Ambiorix of the Eburones tricks Sabinus into believing many of the other camps have been attacked and wiped out, and that Caesar has left for Italian Gaul. Cotta and the head centurion Gorgo don’t believe it, but Sabinus prevails and the legion leaves the safety of their camp to head to Quintus Cicero’s camp nearby. On the way they’re surrounded by the Eburones in a narrow defile. They hold them off for a while; Sabinus is beheaded while trying to surrender. The soldiers bravely hold off the enemy for as long as they can, but finally, after Cotta is killed, Gorgo decides that the remaining men must kill the wounded and then themselves so that no Romans will be burned alive in wicker cages. As a final act, Gorgo buries the legion’s standard so the enemy can’t get it. Caesar gets word of what’s happening a few days later from one of the non-combatants in the camp and goes there with a bunch of Remi cavalrymen. They find many headless corpses; one remaining man, barely alive, tells them what happened.

Meanwhile, Ambiorix has tried the same tactic on Quintus Cicero, but Cicero won’t even talk to him. Cicero is nervous and decides to improve the defenses of the camp, just in time. They are attacked and bravely hold out for thirty days; Cicero tries to get word to Caesar, but the couriers keep getting intercepted. Finally, one gets through and Caesar comes with two legions and the attacking Gauls are wiped out, although Ambiorix gets away.

Rhiannon thinks Caesar should be king of Rome so their son could be king after him. Caesar explains that Rome won’t tolerate a king and besides, he has no wish to be king. And finally, the boy isn’t Roman because she isn’t. She decides to get advice from Servilia and sends her a letter (which Caesar sees before it’s sent on). Servilia writes back (Caesar also sees this letter) reiterating what Caesar has told her but in a much more unfriendly tone.

Caesar encounters young Vercingetorix for the first time at the pan-Gallic conference in Samarobriva. Some of the tribes have sent no representatives. Caesar explains to those in attendance that it’s better for them if Rome is in charge, because without Rome’s protection, they will be at the mercy of the Germans.

There are a few more missions before winter sets in, including building a bridge across the Rhine (for the second time). In Germany Caesar meets a man named Cornel, who’s obviously the son of Lucius Cornelius Sulla. And finally, Acco of the Senones is tried for inciting insurrection after he had signed a treaty with Rome. The jury is evenly split between Romans and Gauls, and he is found guilty. Afterwards, Vercingetorix convinces most of the Gallic chiefs that they need to unite in order to defeat the Romans. They all agree, except for the Aedui, who won’t fight the Romans, but declare they won’t help them either.

[G]

I never thought I would be so caught up in a battle or series of battles as I have been here (I have trouble with warring of any kind - even football).

I have to add, that as someone who believes "trees are the answer" the section where Caesar cuts down the oak trees to beat the Druidic Morini was very distressing even if it shows the extent of his knowledge of the enemy.

[Tomerobber]

I bought additional material for this time period and was listening to an audiobook of CAESAR'S LEGION . . . and I agree . . . The blood and guts flowing in all these battles is enough to make a pacifist out of anyone. Someone else had mentioned the HBO series ROME that was aired in 2009 . . . and I found the whole series available on DVD . . . I ordered that as well. I'm curious to see if this newer telling of the story of the Roman Empire is any better than the early Hollywood productions.

by Stephen Dando-Collins

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Indeed, the story of the XIIIth legion under Sabinus and Cotta was heartbreaking. Gorgo sounds like an exemplary centurion, including burying the standard. It was very important that the standard not be taken by the enemy, as that would bring disgrace upon the legion.

[Tomerobber]

I like the fact that McCullough humanizes the character of Caesar by showing us other sides of his personality than just the war-mongering side. In his distruction of the oak groves of the Druids it was enlightening to read his thoughts about conquering an enemy without killing him . . .

And Caesar, striding out with them, looked at the wall of murdered oaks and smiled. He was learning new ways to make war, fascinated with the idea of taking war inside the enemy's mind. His faith in himself and his soldiers was limitless, but better by far that conquest came inside the enemy mind. That way, the yoke could never be thrown off. p. 63/910 paperback Ed.

[G]

Understanding his culture of stoicism with honor helps to see how he leads his troops and why they believe in him. McCullough gives flesh to the General by incorporating what is known of him into the details of the character she created. The scenes where he weeps while still maintaining a logical conversation were wonderful.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I'm sure with Caesar his love for the troops wasn't just put on to get them to work and fight harder. Although he's obviously not crazy about some of his legates, like Sabinus.

[Cheryl]

I really like McCullough's addition of Caesar's psychological warfare...not just cutting down the trees, but also how he takes the time to talk to Vercingetorix to get to know a potential enemy.

And I LOVED that she put in Sulla's son! A very cool addition (and again I'm glad I read The First Man in Rome so that I got the reference right away. She portrayed Sulla as heartbroken at having to leave his German wife and children, and Caesar was right - he would have been glad that his son had so many children. :)

by Colleen McCullough

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Cheryl, it took me a few seconds to realize who Cornel was, although his looks should have been instantly recognized by me. And the name Cornel (from Lucius Cornelius Sulla) was the confirmation. It was nice to have that link back to the first book.

[Zeljka]

Tomerobber wrote: "And Caesar, striding out with them, looked at the wall of murdered oaks and smiled. He was learning new ways to make war, fascinated with the idea of taking war inside the enemy's mind. His faith in himself and his soldiers was limitless, but better by far that conquest came inside the enemy mind. That way, the yoke could never be thrown off. p. 63/910 paperback Ed."

Excellent quote, I have just noted it myself. Truly impressive view of Caesar's genius.

This chapter was quite long, but interesting. It gave me excellent overview of Roman war strategies (Quintus Cicero's and Gorgo's leaderships were remarkable whilst Sabinus's idiotic), engineering (bridges and camps), judiciary system (Acco's trial), legacy through adoption (if not by blood), the views on the forms of the government (democracy vs monarchy) and on the differences between invaders (Greeks vs Germans vs Romans) and many more I can't even recall right now!

Caesar's oratory skills were extraordinary, very convincing! From the end of the chapter it seems that his own words (I believe in unity. I believe that unity is strength. And I would give Gallia Comata the unity of true nationhood. That would be Rome's gift.) would haunt him at last, as Vercingetorix took these words to the letter. And I cannot blame him for that!

Cheryl wrote: "And I LOVED that she put in Sulla's son! A very cool addition (and again I'm glad I read The First Man in Rome so that I got the reference right away...."

Vicki wrote: "Cheryl, it took me a few seconds to realize who Cornel was, although his looks should have been instantly recognized by me..."

Eh, now I wish I had started with the first book ;) But McCullough writes really well, I could guess what she was insinuating with the mention of Sulla without ever having heard of him before.

by Colleen McCullough

[Cheryl]

McCullough does a great job of filling in the blanks as a reminder or for people who haven't read the previous books. I started with the second one - The Grass Crown - (accidentally picked it up not even knowing it was a series), and never felt like I was missing anything from not having read the first one - .The First Man in Rome.

and by Colleen McCullough

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Zeljka wrote: "From the end of the chapter it seems that his own words would haunt him at last, as Vercingetorix took these words to the letter. And I cannot blame him for that!"

You are so right. Vercingetorix seems to have been the first Gaul to see the advantage in uniting the tribes rather than fighting each other or having individual battles against the Romans. We probably don't know where he actually got the idea, but the example of the Roman system seems to have made an impression.

[Tomerobber]

I'm finally getting up to speed with all these characters . . . I got the DVD set of ROME and watched the first disc . . . I've been immersing myself in Ancient Rome . . . I've acquired some additional books and am really enjoying learning more. Right now I'm listening to an audiobook THE POISON KING while I update my reading lists.
I'm looking forward to reading the first four books of McCullough . . . she makes Ancient Rome much more interesting than most dry stilted historical sources!!

by Adrienne Mayor

[Zeljka]

Now that reminds me -- this chapter also mentions some soldiers from the Ninth Legion, more precisely, Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus. Those were also the main characters from an HBO series I liked much, Rome. I guess these named were pulled from real historical records, as it is not anywhere mentioned that the series was inspired by McCullough's book(s).

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Tomerobber, I'm sure you'll like The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates, Rome's Deadliest Enemy, Mithradates is a fascinating character, although he's long gone by the time our current book starts. Another good biography of Mithradates is King of Pontus: The Story of Mithradates Eupator.

Zeljka, regarding Pullo and Vorenus, I think I remember hearing that the reason HBO's Rome was centered around them is that they were the only soldiers mentioned by name in Caesar's dispatches. It was a great series, especially the actor who played the young Octavian.

by Adrienne Mayor
by Alfred Duggan
by Julius Caesar