13. CAESAR - BOOK AS A WHOLE AND FINAL THOUGHTS ~ January 14th - January 20th (SPOILER THREAD)

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

For those of you who have completed the book and/or who want to discuss aspects of the book which are beyond our weekly assignments in the non spoiler threads, this thread is a spoiler thread where you can discuss those points.

If you have completed the book and would like to tell us what you thought about this selection, please feel free to discuss your opinions in a respectful way here.

However, please no links to personal reviews because we consider that self promotion. Simply post your thoughts here without the links.

Many folks read ahead of the weekly assignment and that is OK too; however, you must make sure that your posted comments on the other weekly non spoiler threads do not reflect reading ahead of the posted weekly assignment. If you would like to discuss aspects of the book further along, this is a spoiler thread where you can do just that.

We try to move along the discussion slowly on the weekly non spoiler threads but realize that some folks like to move along swiftly. So we have options for both groups of folks.

Colleen McCullough

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Sorry it took so long to put this thread up. I was in the hospital for a couple of days for tests (everything's fine).

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

The Gallic part of the book was rather confusing for me, so many names and places, although the maps were a help. I liked the portrayal of the disaster at Atuatuca, where Ambiorix tricked the legates into withdrawing from the fort. What a shame that was. And later, the seige at Avaricum and especially the one at Alesia were really interesting. I did try reading Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War: With Notes, Dictionary, and a Map of Gaul, but it didn't help much. I guess I just don't care for complicated battle stories.

Julius Caesar

[Zeljka]

I was very pleased with this book, and with this discussion too - your comments were really interesting and useful.

Book impressed me mostly with wholesome character descriptions. All of them had some flaws and merits too, not a single character was really perfect nor was utterly villainous. I liked historical details very much too, because I was acquainted a bit with this time in our history (as everyone was, for sure), but wasn't really familiar with many particular events, and especially not with Roman legal and political hierarchy and procedures.

The only thing I was sometimes a bit wary of, was that feeling of not being told the whole truth of some particular event, or being a bit manipulated into sympathizing with some characters at the expense of historical accuracy.

And, I must say, I was a bit dissapointed when I realised this book won't finish Caesar's storyline! Well, I guess book was already too big to contain whole saga... And it's not as if I have no clue what will happen next, but, I am afraid I won't be able to go to the next book for some time, so this annoys me a bit.

All in all, I am glad I have read this book together with you!

[G]

Vicki wrote: "Sorry it took so long to put this thread up. I was in the hospital for a couple of days for tests (everything's fine)."

Being an 'oldie' I wasn't sure of the etiquette or protocol of asking questions on a social network, but I am glad to hear everything is ok.

[G]

I found I was more engrossed in this book than I thought I would be. The turning point for me was the video on the Siege of Alesia. It put everything into reality and I could reflect back on Caesars struggle with the Britains with a new respect.

I also saw Caesar change. Whether existing traits were brought to the fore, or if he developed a new hardness, I don't know, but he is becoming a harsh, egocentric man. A leader who used to lead through skill alone is now leading based on reputation. McCullough has given me a whole new take on the man. Even the biography I recently read of Caesar is consistent with how she fleshed out the previously frozen in time statue. Thanks for this journey.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

It seems as though Caesar doesn't have anyone to keep him in check. Earlier in his life, Aurelia could bring him down a peg, but he doesn't have any close friends who can talk sense to him.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Zeljka wrote: "I was very pleased with this book, and with this discussion too - your comments were really interesting and useful.

Book impressed me mostly with wholesome character descriptions. All of them had ..."

I'm so glad you liked the book, Zeljka. I'm about halfway through the next one, and I think it's even better. All these characters are so interesting - McCullough really has a way to humanize and particularize each one, even ones you don't like.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

You all may have noticed that the next read in the series, The October Horse, has been taken off the Upcoming Reads section on the group main page. I thought we could use a breather of a few weeks between books, and Bentley is swamped with dealing with his house, which was wrecked by Sandy. I hope this doesn't mess up anyone's plans. How about if we start on Feb. 11?

[G]

February 11 will be great. It will give me a chance to finish a book I've been reading for months, but with which I had technical (literally) difficulties.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

What a shame that Pompey didn't have more sense or backbone to keep the more rabid of the boni under control. Maybe if he had dealt with Caesar as Cicero proposed, a lot of bloodshed (especially his) could have been avoided. His manner of death was a real tragedy.

Also it's too bad Curio was killed in battle - he seemed like a good guy.

[Tomerobber]

Thank goodness . . . I should be finished with Jefferson by Feb. I've squeezed in a few audiobooks and I have 2 other books I've been given that I need to provide reviews for . . . plus there are a few books from the library that I had put on hold . . that I should give attention to before they are due back. I need a break from the Abolitionists and Founding Fathers . . . time to play with the Romans ;-)

[Zeljka]

Vicki wrote: "You all may have noticed that the next read in the series, The October Horse...How about if we start on Feb. 11?"

I like suggestion - maybe I'll manage to start reading it mid-February :)

Vicki wrote: "Also it's too bad Curio was killed in battle - he seemed like a good guy."

Oh dear, yes, I forgot that. I was a bit shocked with that - I was aware that he would eventually die on battlefield, but didn't expect such a sudden "riddance" of the character - with scarce description, even that made through other characters. He seemed too nice and interesting character to be done with like that.

[G]

Apparently Curio introduced Mark Anthony to his carousing ways. Even so, the fact that he would prefer to die with his army rather than return to safety as he was urged to do says a lot about the man, and gives us insight into his relationship with Caesar.

Not sure if this should go in the glossary rather than here, but it looks like Curio was given bad information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_o...

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Thanks for that link, G. I think I'll put it in the Glossary - I've been lax lately.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I just checked out the Wikipedia article for Curio and it says he didn't have any children. In the book, though, he had a son with Fulvia. I guess McCullough made that part up.

[Cheryl]

Vicki wrote: "It seems as though Caesar doesn't have anyone to keep him in check. Earlier in his life, Aurelia could bring him down a peg, but he doesn't have any close friends who can talk sense to him."

I noticed the change in Caesar too - and he does seem lonely. He has his legates, but they are his subordinates, and he has no more close family. He doesn't really have Servilia anymore, either, which I think may be why he's so chummy with Brutus - he may be the closest thing to a son Caesar has in his life until he takes Octavius under his wing.

Speaking of Servilia, his last meeting with her seemed almost dismissive, like McCullough was paving the way for Cleopatra (I already like her, sending Pompey Jr. dates instead of grain). I love McCullough's use of prophecy - 'a god from the west.' Good stuff!