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message 51:
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Kathleen
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Sep 12, 2015 12:28PM

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I hope we see some scenes of the new senators settling in (not just Dory). Like maybe Mircea or Marlowe approaching Cheung or ZZ to try to feel them out and form alliances with them, or something like that. You know, some behind the scenes politicking! I love that kind of stuff.
I think it's fascinating that KC's fans's attentions are riveted on Dory's next book, when RtW's release is imminent.
Since Cassie's obsession with Pritkin has slowed the pace and settled into repetetive rescues of Pritkin for at least two books now, it seems there is little to look forward to in her series. At least that seems to be the case with me.
I hope the triangle introduction was a rumor KC didn't want to encourage by commenting on it. God help us if Ragnarok is displaced to focus on who gets to diddle Dory/Dorina!
Since Cassie's obsession with Pritkin has slowed the pace and settled into repetetive rescues of Pritkin for at least two books now, it seems there is little to look forward to in her series. At least that seems to be the case with me.
I hope the triangle introduction was a rumor KC didn't want to encourage by commenting on it. God help us if Ragnarok is displaced to focus on who gets to diddle Dory/Dorina!

This x 1000!
The vampire senate/politics stuff is one of my favourite things about the Dory books. I don't want that aspect of the books to be diluted.
To be fair to KC, although the Cassie books have been stuck on Pritkin, she did introduce the whole Artemis/demon realm plotline and I though that aspect of TtS was fantastic. I felt like it really expanded the scope of the series, but - again - it's the politics and sense of history/ancient grudges being played out that really appeals to me. The Pritkin rescue is a sideline and I hope that plotline is put to bed (ha!) early in RtW.
The Artemis plotline was great, but I wasn't so keen on the demon realm plotline. The demons are supposed to be the greatest predators, that still exist now that the gods are gone, and I didn't feel like the books portrayed that. I miss the establishing scenes that show, that the demon council is real badass, before they quaked before Artemis. It reminds me of Worf in TNG. Every time when someone was supposed to be a good fighter they beat up Worf, but they never really showed Worf to be a great warrior, they told us so, and then he got beat up every time.

Sadly, there's not much to be excited for in terms of RtW / RtS, when we don't really know anything useful or interesting about them. Also, Dory's series is still 'young', and she hasn't had the opportunity to disappoint us with less-interesting side-plots and other stuff that's been going on in the Cassie books for some time now.
Stardust wrote: "The demons are supposed to be the greatest predators, that still exist now that the gods are gone, and I didn't feel like the books portrayed that."
Omg, yes! I hadn't even realized what my problem was until KC answered on FB that the council is apprently uber-powerful badasses! What? Who? Where? Lol.
KC had better deliver some totally badass inter-dimensional battle or alliance or something, because right now we have the Covens, the Circles, the Council (not to mention the Fey and the Senates, who I think got most of the limelight so far), so all these people need to do something epic, real fast. The series is going to end soon (?), and what we had so far was mostly about how hard Cassie's life is and vague statements of how dangerous everybody is. Needs more action! More chaos! More main plot! More intrigue! More like Dory, basically! :D
The series is going to end soon (?)
I don't think so. I haven't found the comment I remember, so either KC deleted it, or I remember it wrong (my memory usually isn't bad, and I haven't read any other books about old gods that I might mix up lately), but I remember, that Cassie still has to battle Ares in RtW and RtS. She needed four books for Apollo, if I'm right four books for Ares, so I would guess we get four additional books for Odin. KC wrote that she originally envisioned nine books in the series (three for each god?), but didn't manage to put everything into the first three books that she wanted.
I hadn't even realized what my problem was until KC answered on FB that the council is apprently uber-powerful badasses! What? Who? Where? Lol.
OMG, yes! That was my reaction as well.
I usually like my demons as uber-powerful badasses so I was looking forward to seeing them (the incubi don't count, the books often enough said that they are supposed to be pathetic, exception Pritkin, but he is a protagonist so the normal rules of the world of course don't apply), but so far the books didn't really deliver. After we got to know of the "Great Reaping" I thought: "Perhaps all the interesting ones got killed?", but no obviously they are still supposed to be the real deal. Well, I'm waiting.
Something else that came to my mind. Why make Pritkin half incubus (apart from a "great" excuse to have emergencies with Cassie without any pesky guilt, or even thinking on her part). The incubi are the only species of demons in this universe, that can absorb any form of energy as long as they can have sex with the one possesing it. Perhaps we get a great Pritkin related orgy, and a completely overpowered Pritkin at the end. Then the lamia plot would be foreshadowing for that.
BTW, am I the only one, who thinks that it's ridiculous that Pritkin thought Cassie was a lamia in TtD? We have seen one in the short stories, and I don't see it.
I don't think so. I haven't found the comment I remember, so either KC deleted it, or I remember it wrong (my memory usually isn't bad, and I haven't read any other books about old gods that I might mix up lately), but I remember, that Cassie still has to battle Ares in RtW and RtS. She needed four books for Apollo, if I'm right four books for Ares, so I would guess we get four additional books for Odin. KC wrote that she originally envisioned nine books in the series (three for each god?), but didn't manage to put everything into the first three books that she wanted.
I hadn't even realized what my problem was until KC answered on FB that the council is apprently uber-powerful badasses! What? Who? Where? Lol.
OMG, yes! That was my reaction as well.
I usually like my demons as uber-powerful badasses so I was looking forward to seeing them (the incubi don't count, the books often enough said that they are supposed to be pathetic, exception Pritkin, but he is a protagonist so the normal rules of the world of course don't apply), but so far the books didn't really deliver. After we got to know of the "Great Reaping" I thought: "Perhaps all the interesting ones got killed?", but no obviously they are still supposed to be the real deal. Well, I'm waiting.
Something else that came to my mind. Why make Pritkin half incubus (apart from a "great" excuse to have emergencies with Cassie without any pesky guilt, or even thinking on her part). The incubi are the only species of demons in this universe, that can absorb any form of energy as long as they can have sex with the one possesing it. Perhaps we get a great Pritkin related orgy, and a completely overpowered Pritkin at the end. Then the lamia plot would be foreshadowing for that.
BTW, am I the only one, who thinks that it's ridiculous that Pritkin thought Cassie was a lamia in TtD? We have seen one in the short stories, and I don't see it.

However, I did like the reveals about Artemis's history with demons and that was good enough for me. I feel that KC's only starting to develop the Demon Council and I want to see where she goes with it. It's true that they were a bit freaked by Artemis, but then she was the greatest predator in their history and she appeared out of nowhere, so I can't blame them for that.
The whole Pritkin-though-time thing is a bit of plot contrivance though. I want to see how it ends before I call it bullshit, because there might be some mega twist that explains all. But if it's just there to put off Cassie and Pritkin getting together for another two books, frankly, that's a bit crap.
I sound like I'm being very down on the series, and maybe I am a little. But, if all the hints about the next book are true (i.e. being a 'pivotal' book, and also focusing more on Mircea) then hopefully there is a reason for everything, and it's not just fake tension to pad out half a book.
I think I'd just go for Dory with LC. We have enough 'love triangle drama' in the Cassie series.
It would be interesting to see Dorina and LC go through the same love-hate scenario that Dory and LC went through.
That near-death dance could aid in integrating the two personalities when Dory smugly replies to Dorina's belated realization that LC had a very exciting redeeming quality...."Told ya!"
That near-death dance could aid in integrating the two personalities when Dory smugly replies to Dorina's belated realization that LC had a very exciting redeeming quality...."Told ya!"


KC says there are different levels of heaven and hell. If I'm remembering correctly (cos I'm a bit hazy on this), Earth was the first level of hell, and the demon realm was the 7th. I think Faerie was the first level of heaven? So if we are taking the 'fallen' thing literally, the Irin could have come from a higher 'heaven' level than the fey, but were relegated into the lowest level of hell? Maybe the Irin helped Artemis fight the old gods, and the gods' last act before being banished was to boot the Irin out?
Not sure where vampires might fit in on the spectrum of supernatural creatures. I'm guessing they would be on the demon end of the scale though. Doesn't it speculate somewhere (HtM, maybe?) about whether vampires have souls? Not having a soul implies being damned to hell, I suppose.

And if the Irin are to be believed as fall angels, that would put them somewhat associated with the gods? I mean in terms of location, both in the heavens, I wonder if that will somehow come into play.
And Artemis seemed to know the council a little well considering she only hunted the most powerful of their kind, she didn't seem like the type to stop and chat about who was who, what part they planned by she knew Adra. Adra was just his title and not his actual name, assuming he has one I wonder if well get that, not that Cassie could probably say it. And if the council can still use the spell her mother gave her, to see their progress or lack of.
Wonder if Cassie will get some loyal followers among the fey joining her. Some of them want the gods they worshipped back, but I wander if there is more reason then that, and some of them don't. Artemis probably has some worshippers of her own, it seems they'd be the most likely to help Cassie. And the circle was suppose to help the dark fae queen who attacked Cassie to get her kidnapped husband back, and she'd work with them I guess. We never heard anything back about that either. I'm guessing we get to see Cassie go back there and find Tomas, since his short comes after when he gets out.

On the Irin, I half-wondered if they were perhaps gods once, but were stripped of their power in some way? It says in the books that the 'gods' aren't really gods exactly. They're just super powerful alien creatures. Maybe the Irin were the same once? I dunno. I do think they originally came from a higher level than Faerie on the heaven side of the divide, but how high I'm not sure. It's the fact that the Irin that Dory encounters tells her it's not her fight and the Irin are getting involved. They're obviously really powerful if they can do that. And that Irin child was a being of light. I'm not sure of anything about them except I really hope they pop up again before Dory#4.
About the Fey, it is kinda weird how they want the gods back (some of the fey, anyway). I don't think they're in any danger of being slaughtered by the gods, but Asshat's comment that he wasn't bowing to anyone (I'm paraphrasing wildly) rung true. Most of the fey seem to have an arrogant streak. Why would they want creatures who are more powerful than they back? I can only guess the gods gave something to the Fey in exchange for their help? worship? Maybe human slaves or something like that.
So Caedmon is the Sky Lord and has an ex-wife, I want the story behind that! I can just imagine the poor diplomats who have to deal with that, ha! Caedmon would be such an ass about it, and his ex-wife is probably the one who kept him grounded. I remember him telling Dory, MD, that no one had been familiar enough with him in a long time to tell him he was sulking. I'm imagining an epic romance and a fallout over his inability to have full-blooded fey children. What do you guys think happened?

Caedmon's ex-wife is the Alorestri queen. Apparently the parting was not amicable. In talking with Dory, he explained that Claire's child, if a girl, would be in no danger, because women don't rule in the civilized areas. He went on to say, "The Alorestri presently have a female leader-terrible woman-but they have always been unorthodox."
That just has to be the Alorestri queen, Caedmon's ex, and I agree with Emily. I WANT THAT STORY!!!
That just has to be the Alorestri queen, Caedmon's ex, and I agree with Emily. I WANT THAT STORY!!!
I'm assuming Heidar's mother is the reason the Blaestri (sorry for the spelling I don't have the book to check) no longer trade in humans, anyone who can deal with Caedmon for an extended period and have him do what they want must be amazing.

On Heidar's mother, Im assuming that she died of old age? I can't remember how old it says that Heidar is, but I know its old, so presumably, his mother if she was fully human would have died by now.

I guess we'll have to wait to find out KC's take on it.

I guess we'll have to wait to find out KC's take on it."
I forgot that they could do that. So possibly she is still alive. I wonder if he had actual feelings for her of if it was simply to get an heir, who he could then get a better heir out of. So many questions with no answers.
I feel like Caedmon might have eventually come to love H's mother, I always thought she had come to Faerie as a slave and somehow wound with C. But H isn't that old (for a fey) and the timeline runs differently there, maybe she returned to earth and is still alive?

The Alorestri were described as dark=haired, but the fey who wore gray were blond.
Could it be that there is a magical organization in Faerie? Perhaps one that cuts across the different fey groups?
Or did the dark-haired group and the blond group represent two different lines of Myrddin's fey ancestry?
The organization of magic users might be a great ally in the war? But who are they? And why have we not heard of them before?
Both Caedmon and Myrddin are blond with green eyes. Coincidence? Connection?
Looking forward to finding out more...


There was the blonde that came with the Alorestri, but nothing was said about the others' looks (I mean those of the ones that kept coming), so yes, there's a very real possibility that this organization cuts across different fey groups.
I don't think there's a Caedmon conection, though. Pritkin's mother was part Alorestri (hence they were the only ones who came, grey-robed blonde aside), and his looks are clearly related to his likeness to his father. So I vote for coincidence.
Just a last thought, maybe the Fey In Grey didn't take him because it wasn't in their... jurisdiction? I mean, maybe they saw his potential, hence they kept coming, but they couldn't take him because, as an Alorestri descendant, only they had the power to make that desicion? I don't know.

Sooo... in that case the fae would want to see what powers he possessed eg elements. Let us assume at they do NOT know that Daddy is demon (incubus). In which case the fae would assume P is only part fae and did not inherit enough magic (not knowing his other ancestry).
Now, if they DID know what his Daddy was... how would they view that? And would they know the potential powers he might get from Daddy's side?? Hummm.....
I'm not sure they would have been favorably impressed but when he was using his incubus side he did pretty well in the fight against the Salvestri warriors.
I'm wondering what "other" might be in P. We were blithly assuming fae, demon and human. But what if there is something else??
A touch of God power perhaps?? Maybe some of those demi gods were sti

That would give P some pretty formidable abilities - namely being able to function in all 4 levels = earth hell fae and "heaven"...which might make him suited (best suited) to figuring out a way to fight the Gods -
Just a crackpot theory!

I think it was in Midnight's Daughter that Caedmon made the comment about Stinky's bloodlines and I just got the feel that the Fae are way more stuck up than anyone else about mixing. Understandable since they understand earth to be upper hell, depending on which house of fae half humans are seen as less. so what they think of the lower hells? Also didn't Pritkin move the leaf with his demon powers and not his fae?
Quick poll, which fey character is the sexiest?

Lol, probably one of the fey guards at Dory's though - Aesubrand and Caedmon are too complicated; most interesting certainly but probably not the most sexy.
Asshat isn't too bad, either. As far as looks go.....,......The always-trying-to-kill-you mitigates his charms, however. He and bis mamma may be coming around nicely to the good side, for their own reasons.
Emily, the "Norwegian Swim Team" of fairy bodyguards in Claire/ Dory's back yard must be the sexiest, as evidenced by the emergency excursion to buy condoms! Can't remember if KC named them as Norwegian, Swedish or Danish, but the whole episode was hilarious. I miss Dory so much......
Please someone tell me when it's okay to discuss what we learnt in RtS here

I know right!!! There has been so many reveals, we really need to take all the tidbits to their separate specific topic threads to take apart and discuss and digest, because there's just soo much that can't fit into one thread... And I agree, the fey reveals were especially exciting! ;D Soon, though, soon...

Why did he get ONE line 'huh, so I guess he's a demigod' when the irritating whiney kid and the reporters got pages? :( Caedmon was glorious. So, seeing as he was all shiney, does that mean he is Apollo's kid??? Or whose kid is he? And, are gods actually 'related' as the myths suggest, metaphysically at least perhaps, or are they just independent energy beings? Cause Caedmon and Cassie could techincally be cousins of some degree :D
Also, the rest of the fey were just fabulous too. To be honest, Cassie in RtS almost become a character who is more enjoyable to read about because of the things that happen around her, rather than because of the things she herself does (very little, sadly). I felt like the fey really overshadowed her. Compared to Nimue or Arthur or Caedmon, her learning how to possess corpses and stuff was nice, but... Nimue... Morgana freaking le Fey.. Caedmon... !!!
Aeslin's scheme was really smart too, so it will be super interesting what he's plotting in the present with his god-fanatic fey faction, and how that will tie in with Aesubrand and Efridis's sypathy for the 'Earth's side'. And how Caedmon's demigodhood will impact Aidan!!! These are likely going to be answered in the Dory books, which is fine by me, cause this multi-world conflict of war and ideologies and political plots is a really good plotline, but it was nice to see Caedmon shine (heh) in the Cassie books too!
I only wish KC would write more of her interesting plotpoints as standalones rather than as sidenotes to Cassie's already overflowing unrealistically universal story. I felt that many fey scenes were rushed an just shoved in there, and we got a lot of the story just by word of mouth from other characters' thrown in comments instead of developing it more deeply. Perhaps if the action scenes were carved off a little, the space could've been dedicated to developing a few hasty barely-touched-upon themes more satisfyingly. I mean, the book was a good enjoyable 3.5-4, but little things like this do add up imo.
Can we appreciate Nimue? Imagine Caedmon being married to her! I love the fact we finally met her, it's been bugging me ever since Caedmon first mentioned he had previously been married.
I have a theory.
Aesubrand is married. Remember, I think it was in FK when it was mentioned that Aeslinn forced all Svasetri (sorry for the misspelling) to marry once they were of age. If Aselinn wanted Aesubrand to unite all the Light doesn't it make sense to marry his son to an Alorestri princess or lady? RTW mentioned that Nimue had several daughters. It would make sense to marry two heirs, ultimate power couple.
Now tinfoil.
If Aesubrand is married to an Alorestri princess, they would have been trying their damnedest to get pregnant. So if they already have a daughter? That would suit the Alorestri fine, although I'm sure Aeslinn wants a male heir. What if this princess pops up in the next Dory? Perhaps wanting an alliance? How better to get around all that murder and plotting than go to the mother of the rival?
It would make sense even if the hypothetical daughter would be Aiden''s second cousin. They wouldn't have to get married, just be engaged until they are old enough to slaughter each other.
But like I said tinfoil.
I have a theory.
Aesubrand is married. Remember, I think it was in FK when it was mentioned that Aeslinn forced all Svasetri (sorry for the misspelling) to marry once they were of age. If Aselinn wanted Aesubrand to unite all the Light doesn't it make sense to marry his son to an Alorestri princess or lady? RTW mentioned that Nimue had several daughters. It would make sense to marry two heirs, ultimate power couple.
Now tinfoil.
If Aesubrand is married to an Alorestri princess, they would have been trying their damnedest to get pregnant. So if they already have a daughter? That would suit the Alorestri fine, although I'm sure Aeslinn wants a male heir. What if this princess pops up in the next Dory? Perhaps wanting an alliance? How better to get around all that murder and plotting than go to the mother of the rival?
It would make sense even if the hypothetical daughter would be Aiden''s second cousin. They wouldn't have to get married, just be engaged until they are old enough to slaughter each other.
But like I said tinfoil.
LOL, Emily!
I agree that Aesubrand is probably married, but the idea that he could have a daughter goes againt my idiotic pairing. Now for my tinfoil hat offering:
See, we know that fey marriages can be ended. Maybe they are annulled if no children result after a sufficient period, as was the case with C and N. With me so far? Suppose that Aesubrand's marriage is annulled for infertility, and Aesubrand is looking for fertile female to give him a male heir.
Now who has he marked as his personal prey?!? None other than Dory Basarab! What if he doesn't want to kill her, but to try for a baby?
Okay, Dory has said she can't get pregnant, but what about that fertility rune? Hah! Can you imagine how Mircea and Radu would spoil that child?
😉I don't expect either of our OTPs to happen, but isn't it fun to speculate? Thanks for your comment. I had forgotten about my crazy pairing speculation.
I agree that Aesubrand is probably married, but the idea that he could have a daughter goes againt my idiotic pairing. Now for my tinfoil hat offering:
See, we know that fey marriages can be ended. Maybe they are annulled if no children result after a sufficient period, as was the case with C and N. With me so far? Suppose that Aesubrand's marriage is annulled for infertility, and Aesubrand is looking for fertile female to give him a male heir.
Now who has he marked as his personal prey?!? None other than Dory Basarab! What if he doesn't want to kill her, but to try for a baby?
Okay, Dory has said she can't get pregnant, but what about that fertility rune? Hah! Can you imagine how Mircea and Radu would spoil that child?
😉I don't expect either of our OTPs to happen, but isn't it fun to speculate? Thanks for your comment. I had forgotten about my crazy pairing speculation.
The conception scene would be fantastic to read ;) Hopefully with the fey becoming more important, they will get more love here.

Yes!!! And 'omg, yes' to everything basically :D And the fertility rune is indeed an important plotpoint that wasn't revealed yet, right? I'm probably biased towards Aesubrand, because I don't see Aiden being better for Faerie than him (Caedmon, sure, but not Heidar, Claire or their offspring). I also don't quite know why Caedmon was willing to risk civil war and the safety of his family for his dynastic aspirations - is forcing his own grandson onto the throne really worth all this?
He should've really named Aesubrand his heir imo, with the condition that if A doesn't have children of his own, power reverts to Aiden. Although it might be moot if the kid theory is true! :D In which case, Aesubrand, a strong fey dude from the alliance of two houses, and his own offspring, this awesome theoretical fey kid from the alliance of two houses would immediately trump half-blood Heidar and his mixed-heritage kid! Loving the tinfoil ideas, and your slightly bloodthirsty political maneuvering!
Dory and Aesubrand is an awesome theory too, lol, Nancy! Aaaaand, my own tinfoil incoming: Since fey have a fey-purity policy, Dory would be sadly disqualified... UNLESS she was part fey too! Aesubrand is full fey, so if Elena had even a bit of fey in her (as it was suggested somewhere around here), Aesubrand and Dory's kid would be over 50% fey!!! Note that Elena thought dragons were real, and Claire can turn into one too. Also, the Irin's comment that Dory has 'more family than she knows' would suddenly gain meaning, because even if her mother IS really dead, she could have (great)grandparents or cousins or something in Faerie! Who would presumably be very happy that their long-lost Earthling relative is on the fast track to the throne! Plus, it would be a really cool payoff for all the fey stuff in the Dory books!
I also wish the fey would get more exposure, they are really interesting! KC's fey stuff would be worthy of getting a book to itself, as it's more than equally as exciting as some other series dedicated to Faerie stuff exclusively! Oh and I totally agree, unlikely or not, these theories are great!
Since KC has been resolving many, many previous plotpoints or theories, the Fey are the great unknown and so offer the chance for more tinfoil hat theories. My latest tbought on the Aidan versus Aesubrand as the better sucessor to Caedmon (and please, may Caedmon live forever!) is that Caedmon schemed and chose Aidan because Aidan could be the one person who could unite and rule ALL of the Fey, both the Light and Dark.
Aidan is part Dark fey through Claire, and his grandfather is a Dark fey noble. His friendship with Stinky is possibly very important as well. We don't really know anything about his actual parents, nor do we know how important brownies or duregars are in Dark fey affairs.
Anyway, that may be why Caedmon schemed to get Heidar and Claire together and why he supports Aidan over Aesubrand. Someday Aidan may rule a union of Light and Dark Fey.
Okay, taking off my tincoil hat for a while........
Aidan is part Dark fey through Claire, and his grandfather is a Dark fey noble. His friendship with Stinky is possibly very important as well. We don't really know anything about his actual parents, nor do we know how important brownies or duregars are in Dark fey affairs.
Anyway, that may be why Caedmon schemed to get Heidar and Claire together and why he supports Aidan over Aesubrand. Someday Aidan may rule a union of Light and Dark Fey.
Okay, taking off my tincoil hat for a while........

What does Pritkin currently possess from his fae side and what might he possibly acquire from Cassie if they ever "swapped" powers (eg mated like true demons?) Because Cassie is a witch, with powers over elements too I think? I keep seeing Pritkin as a counter to Aesubrand....
Hi, Oona. I'm pretty sure Pritkin has all four elements, but earth is still difficult for him.
You are correct that he could be the counter to Aesubrand. I wonder if Aesubrand is informed and concurring with his mother's ambitions.
The two series are certainly converging now, aren't they?
You are correct that he could be the counter to Aesubrand. I wonder if Aesubrand is informed and concurring with his mother's ambitions.
The two series are certainly converging now, aren't they?


Reading it after Dory 4, and
(view spoiler)