Is the Harry Potter/Twilight debate really so one-sided?

[Cassie]

Thanks...

I wasn't trying to make enemies here... I just thought I could share a simple opinion on Harry Potter without being insulted. I mean, I don't think I was being unreasonable at all.
But this usually happens. I say something critical about Harry Potter and someone uses some random personal attack to discredit every opinion I have.
My heart is closed, really?
It happens every time.
That's one of the main reasons I don't enjoy talking about Harry Potter.

It's the most unfortunate trait the Harry Potter and Twilight fandoms tend to share.

[[deleted user]]

Jocelyn wrote: "Gattaca wrote: "I feel like you guys are just really tearing Harry down though, which is very strange to me.

He had a huge weight on his shoulders, more than we could have taken at his age. Starti..."


But he was not sitting on his ass though.....like explain to me how he was sitting on his ass in the first books?

[[deleted user]]

Cassie wrote: "Thanks...

I wasn't trying to make enemies here... I just thought I could share a simple opinion on Harry Potter without being insulted. I mean, I don't think I was being unreasonable at all.
But ..."

No, you are not an enemy. You said yourself that Harry is not vital and I am just saying what I feel like you want to do....

I said your heart was closed when reading HP....I don't know you in real life to say you have a closed heart. I don't know.

[Heather]

One is a well thought-out, planned series, that grew it's readers. It was orignal, w/ complex relationships.
The other was poorly written. The relationships were scary. If my daughter were involved in that type, I would get in counseling pronto, and have him arrested for stalking at the least.
Meyers is not a bad writer. I read THE HOST and enjoyed it very much. I just really think the role models she set up were horrible. Rowling did a much better job, in a much better way.

[[deleted user]]

Heather wrote: "One is a well thought-out, planned series, that grew it's readers. It was orignal, w/ complex relationships.
The other was poorly written. The relationships were scary. If my daughter were involved..."

I have to disagree that HP is original. There are so many elements ripped off from Lord of the Rings it's kinda hard to ignore.

[[deleted user]]

Gattaca wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Most of the time in other threads when I've interacted with Cassie, I usually disagree with her...but in this case I kind of agree.

Just as a heads up Gattaca...this isn't directed..."

You too Gattaca :)

[[deleted user]]

Jocelyn wrote: "Heather wrote: "One is a well thought-out, planned series, that grew it's readers. It was orignal, w/ complex relationships.
The other was poorly written. The relationships were scary. If my daught..."

Jocelyn wrote: "Gattaca wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Most of the time in other threads when I've interacted with Cassie, I usually disagree with her...but in this case I kind of agree.

Just as a heads up Gattaca...thi..."

Most of HP came from Rowling's head though...to be fair to her:)

[[deleted user]]

That's true, there are also still many elements to HP that are very creative.

[[deleted user]]

Jocelyn wrote: "That's true, there are also still many elements to HP that are very creative."

I still dream about the candies she created.....mmmmm

[[deleted user]]

Butterbeer especially. Every time she describes it I practically drool...

[[deleted user]]

Jocelyn wrote: "Butterbeer especially. Every time she describes it I practically drool..."

Dude, I was thinking about the chocolate frogs that like jump everywhere before you catch them and eat them.lol.

But yes, butterbeer..mmmm

[Sarah]

Honestly, I like both. I'm on the 4th Harry Potter and read Twilight years ago. I never say I like Twilight because of possible ridicule. The book was pretty good really. HP just interests me more.
My personal opinion, though: if you don't like things in a book, write your own.

[~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~]

I've never read Harry Potter. The books or films have just never interested me enough to check it out. Maybe cos I'm just not big on witchcraft, magic etc.. It's just not something that interests me.

But I do think people need to stop berating others about loving either series. Twilight or Potter? You like what you like. People need to just get over it
*Shrugs*

[Cinthya]

It`s so funny to read what you have written :D I think that is almost impossible to get a conclusion in this kind of discussion.I`ve been thinking...maybe HP and Twilight are too different!! Both have good things in their own sides and we will never agree in something. So just read what you want! :D

[[deleted user]]

I think it is because more people like Harry Potter than Twilight. I on the other hand like Twilight.

[Kirby]

Jocelyn wrote: "And HP DOES have better female role models, which seems even more ironic because Twilight is supposed to be a piece of feminist literature. "

I think that this is the second time I've seen you say that, and I'm not so sure that it's true. I've searched, and I can't find any evidence that SM ever said anything of the sort. I did find where she defended herself against the anti-feminism charges, but there's a big difference between saying "it's feminist literature" and "it's not anti-feminist literature," don't you think?

[[deleted user]]

Kirby wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "And HP DOES have better female role models, which seems even more ironic because Twilight is supposed to be a piece of feminist literature. "

I think that this is the second time I..."

TBH my sources may not be totally accurate (I used Wikipedia.) I'll admit I've never actually read or seen an interview or anything when she said that.

Click here to see it; Wikipedia says that Meyer "perceives" the fact that Bella chose to be with Edward as laying the "foundation for modern feminism.

[Kirby]

Jocelyn wrote: "Kirby wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "And HP DOES have better female role models, which seems even more ironic because Twilight is supposed to be a piece of feminist literature. "

I think that this is the..."

the article is technically accurate, but what your link says is not. she never said anything about laying the foundation for modern feminism. she was merely saying (as others in the feminism thread have said) that she believes choice is what's important. what the article says is:

"Meyer has dismissed such criticisms, arguing both that the books center around Bella's choice, which she perceives as the foundation of modern feminism, and that Bella's damsel in distress persona is due only to her humanity."

I just don't think it's fair to try to make it sound like she's saying that she wrote a feminist novel when she's actually saying that she did NOT write an anti-feminist novel. entirely different statements.

[[deleted user]]

You're right, I was wrong to use those statements interchangeably.

How about: Meyer perceives her characters to be feminist.

That way it's more general. Meyer didn't set out to write something feminist...but she sees her characters as feminist enough.

I don't think she only argues that her books are NOT antifeminist, however, I think she also argues that Twilight can be feminist.

[~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~]

These series are just too different to have a debate about them. They touch on completely different subjects, have completely different characters, and they have completely different plights.

That's just like having a debate between who is the better dancer: Michael Jackson or MC Hammer? They both have completely different styles of dance, expressing it through different styles of music. Yet they both were very talented.

[Elena]

Baylor wrote: "Harry Potter will win every single time- the plot is so deep and well developed, the characters are real, it is about more than just romance, the entire series painted a vast and magical world, and..."

I agree to some point with this.
I am both Twilight and Harry Potter fan but I prefer Harry Potter.

[Gretchen]

~*~Princess Nhya~*~ wrote: "These series are just too different to have a debate about them. They touch on completely different subjects, have completely different characters, and they have completely different plights.

That..."

Totally agree with you on this one! But would have to add the comparision between say a Politian and a movie star... they are both actors, but completely different agenda's... these are both fictional storys in in completely different contexts... there really is no comparing the two.. and like you said above people like what they like... let it be!

I have read both series... Harry Potter first and MANY time over.. love it... then I made a deal with my boss taht I would read Twi if she read Potter... I held up my end where she did not, but I'm glad I did. I ended up rereading the series a few time and still enjoy the story.

Writing styles between the authors are so different that you really can't compare them, and the story context as well is so different that they shouldn't be compared.. again... different agenda's!!

That's my 2 cents and I'm putting on the table.

[~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~]

Gretchen wrote:Totally agree with you on this one! But would have to add the comparision between say a Politian and a movie star... they are both actors, but completely different agenda's... these are both fictional storys in in completely different contexts... there really is no comparing the two.. and like you said above people like what they like... let it be!

I have read both series... Harry Potter first and MANY time over.. love it... then I made a deal with my boss taht I would read Twi if she read Potter... I held up my end where she did not, but I'm glad I did. I ended up rereading the series a few time and still enjoy the story.

Writing styles between the authors are so different that you really can't compare them, and the story context as well is so different that they shouldn't be compared.. again... different agenda's!!

That's my 2 cents and I'm putting on the table.

*fist bump* :)

[Cassie]

Jocelyn wrote: "TBH my sources may not be totally accurate (I used Wikipedia.) I'll admit I've never actually read or seen an interview or anything when she said that.

Click here to see it; Wikipedia says that Meyer "perceives" the fact that Bella chose to be with Edward as laying the "foundation for modern feminism. "


The best thing to do is check the source from which the information comes from.
It actually doesn't say anything about feminism or choice or anything.
It says
"(Side note: there are those who think Bella is a wuss. There are those who think my stories are misogynistic—the damsel in distress must be rescued by strong hero.

To the first accusation, I can only say that we all handle grief in our own way. Bella's way is no less valid than any other to my mind. Detractors of her reaction don't always take into account that I'm talking about true love here, rather than high school infatuation.

I emphatically reject the second accusation. I am all about girl power—look at Alice and Jane if you doubt that. I am not anti-female, I am anti-human. I wrote this story from the perspective of a female human because that came most naturally, as you might imagine. But if the narrator had been a male human, it would not have changed the events. When a human being is totally surrounded by creatures with supernatural strength, speed, senses, and various other uncanny powers, he or she is not going to be able to hold his or her own. Sorry. That's just the way it is. We can't all be slayers. Bella does pretty well I think, all things considered. She saves Edward, after all. Side note/rant over. Back to the story.)"

There is, however, this statement on her website, which isn't cited on Wikipedia
"When I hear or read theories about Bella being an anti-feminist character, those theories are usually predicated on her choices. In the beginning, she chooses romantic love over everything else. Eventually, she chooses to marry at an early age and then chooses to keep an unexpected and dangerous baby. I never meant for her fictional choices to be a model for anyone else's real life choices. She is a character in a story, nothing more or less. On top of that, this is not even realistic fiction, it's a fantasy with vampires and werewolves, so no one could ever make her exact choices. Bella chooses things differently than how I would do it if I were in her shoes, because she is a very different type of person than I am. Also, she's in a situation that none of us has ever been in, because she lives in a fantasy world. But do her choices make her a negative example of empowerment? For myself personally, I don't think so.

In my own opinion (key word), the foundation of feminism is this: being able to choose. The core of anti-feminism is, conversely, telling a woman she can't do something solely because she's a woman—taking any choice away from her specifically because of her gender. "You can't be an astronaut, because you're a woman. You can't be president because you're a woman. You can't run a company because you're a woman." All of those oppressive "can't"s.

One of the weird things about modern feminism is that some feminists seem to be putting their own limits on women's choices. That feels backward to me. It's as if you can't choose a family on your own terms and still be considered a strong woman. How is that empowering? Are there rules about if, when, and how we love or marry and if, when, and how we have kids? Are there jobs we can and can't have in order to be a "real" feminist? To me, those limitations seem anti-feminist in basic principle.

Do I think eighteen is a good age at which to get married? Personally—as in, for the person I was at eighteen—no. However, Bella is constrained by fantastic circumstances that I never had to deal with. The person she loves is physically seventeen, and he's not going to change. If she and he are going to be on a healthy relationship footing, she can't age too far beyond him. Also, marriage is really an insignificant commitment compared to giving up your mortality, so it's funny to me that some people are hung up on one and not the other. Is eighteen too young to give up your mortality? For me, any age is too young for that. For Bella, it was what she really wanted for her life, and it wasn't a phase she was going to grow out of. So I don't have issues with her choice. She's a strong person who goes after what she wants with persistence and determination."

[[deleted user]]

@ Kirby and Cassie

Thanks for pointing it out, I admit I was wrong and that was a pretty big assumption for me.

[Grateful]

I am a fan of both.
I however must say that JKRowling is by far the best of the two writers while harry may seem predictable to some it is the way she twists and turns the story and it runs so smoothly I was emotional reading harry potter I was less so with twilight for the simple reason it was told and described better.

Comparing the two or pitting them for competition against one another doesn't seem right as they are two very different styles, worlds and sets of characters. It would be like pitting chalk against cheese it would be ridiculous.

I find it better to take both of these series separately and for what they are. Harry Potter is and always will be a children's classic that can be enjoyed by the whole family, its fun, vibrant and fantasy at it very best.

Twilight is a book mothers and daughters can both enjoy its about the awkward, clumsy girl who never quite feels good enough she cant see her own beauty. She lives to protect everyone else and is willing to sacrifice herself and her happiness for the ones she loves. She is not as drippy as she is made out to be in the media by critics. Well I don't feel that way about her anyway. Twilight is a cult classic and will remain so in my opinion. Both have there own good and bad point but mostly good. I think its silly to be anti either of them because you would be missing out on something great and imaginative.

[[deleted user]]

-_-