Twilight
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Are people who dislike Twilight "obsessed" with Twilight?
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Kirby wrote: " aside from 50 shades, I do not believe that there is a single other series where EVERY thread on goodreads, no matter the topic, is inundated with people constantly popping up to comment on negatives or to insult the fans. "Well, that's what I'm talking about! I know that every book might have some amount of haters, but books that have really significant amount of haters (like Twilight)... I guess it could be explained by my theory:
1) it must be very popular
2) it must be badly written
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Not liking a book doesn't automatically make someone a "hater". It's when that person goes out of their way to take every opportunity to remind fans of why they hate the book so much. Even in discussions where it isn't applicable. I would call that an obsession."I'm not even sure I would classify all of the haters as obsessive. I think that obsessiveness might require some level of real reaction from the book and a certain amount of attention. I think a lot of people here just use it as a vehicle to vent. Is the root of their hatred really Twilight? (Or does it have to be? Maybe a hater should be defined only on the level of felt hatred as opposed to feeling hatred. Maybe the internal reason doesn't matter. Its manifestations are often the same.)
I think how we get into the same generic discussions is really because haters don't have anything to talk about but their objections (and they don't want to recognize that there are other facets or respect boundaries to make sure everyone's needs are met). When you hate a book or even if it doesn't speak to you, you have a much shallower experience with it than when you're a fan. You don't "feel" the book the same way and there isn't that richness that comes from a connection with it. It's always interesting to me to read writers who discuss their favorite books, particularly if the books are ones that I was not bowled over by. I don't think I've seen a person like that here, though. I think most are here to stop discussion of anything not relating to them.
I also think that there's this misconception that to hate a book means that you are better than the book and its fans. Some people really need to feel superior to others, so they'll come here and say things like "Twilight fans don't care about quality" (with the obvious message that they do).
Mickey wrote: "ey'll come here and say things like "Twilight fans don't care about quality" (with the obvious message that they do)"Not really :-)) I like to listen to Sex Pistols occasionally, but the truth is - they are quite lousy musicians :-))
Of course, being lousy musicians is a part of their concept, but that's another story. ;-)
Most of us eat junk food sometimes (and we enjoy it), but most of us also admits that it is - junk.
Zoran wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Even those who think that a quality of writing can be mesured by number of curses. :-))"Well, if the cursing is only in there because the writer couldn't come up with something better to put down then I'd say yeah, we've got a prime example of a bad writer there. :)
Gerd wrote: "Zoran wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Even those who think that a quality of writing can be mesured by number of curses. :-))"Well, if the cursing is only in there because the writer couldn't come up wit..."
Do you think S.M. is a BAD writer?
Taylor wrote: "Do you think S.M. is a BAD writer? "I do think she is - could I do a better job though - probably not (then again I have no inclination to be an author). That said, she isn't the worst one out there either so...
Well that question is hard to answer since I dislike Twilight but for some reason I like it but I'm not obssessed with Twilight though.
Taylor wrote: "Do you think S.M. is a BAD writer?"Depends on the measurment we take, I wouldn't call her an accomplished writer. twilight certainly lacks satisfaction in its execution, the trilogy never rises to its possibilities. And her prose can't measure up to the likes of, say, a Ray Bradbury.
But she's a good enough storyteller, she keeps you entertained even through the eye-rolling parts, there's just not much depth or vision to her writing.
But that can be said about a lot of authors in the young readers section.
I've certainly read worse in both young and adult literature.
Gerd wrote: "Well, if the cursing is only in there because the writer couldn't come up with something better to put down then I'd say yeah, we've got a prime example of a bad writer there. :) "Well, you can say that for anything, not just cursing.
Gerd wrote: "there's just not much depth or vision to her writing.But that can be said about a lot of authors in the young readers section.
"
It has been said that 90% of everything is crap. "Twilight" just isn't in that other 10%.
Of course, I'm talking about quality of writing. That doesn't meen that "Twilight" doesn't have some other qualities, for exemple it has great commercial value. Some people made nice money on it. It's a great product... just not a well written book.
Zoran wrote: "Well, you can say that for anything, not just cursing."'Tis true.
But cursing, or vulgar language in general, just feels like the easiest litmus test for literacy. :)
We are reactionary people and reactionary people with passions within an art-form can be the most irate when it comes to something that goes against what they see and they want to make it known they do not like their art being treated like a mockery. I've been on media forums for ten years or so and this is true and it applies to me as well.But it's not even just Twilight (which reads like how a friend of mine wrote when she was 14 and I hated writing with her for it), but the majority of Young Adult novels I've experienced that makes a firey ball of hate latch itself and I want it to be known when I see something like Twilight well received or well bought.
Just my thoughts on the OP.
Gerd wrote: "Zoran wrote: "Well, you can say that for anything, not just cursing."'Tis true.
But cursing, or vulgar language in general, just feels like the easiest litmus test for literacy. :)"
Judging from bad books that I get to read, I'd say forced polite and "academic" languege is far greater "evil" when it comes to writing :-)
Here's a recent twist on the "obsessed hater" front. Recently, there was thread that was labelled "For Fans Only" asking about how they thought the Twilight threads as a whole were going. There have been a few troll posts, but they hasn't been a concerted effort to derail it by trolls beyond a few posts that were snide and immature.
It seems now that they've become obsessed with the thread itself, repeatedly posting it on other threads and one troll even likening it to the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades.
Do haters actually think that all threads should be about them and that one thread that is different is a huge threat? Are they worried that fans, if given a choice, might prefer to talk about the books rather than be called stupid or have pointless conversations about other people's complaints?
It reminds me of the control that the most dysfunctional person in a family has. They try to control the whole family by reducing people's options and making others as miserable as they can manage. It's a bully mentality (and no, not every person who dislikes Twilight acts like this).
Zoran wrote: "Jocelyn wrote: "Yes, you are wrong in that statement...the..."Please, point me to the "Song of Ice and Fire" hate. I'd really like to see that. :-)"
I can perfectly understand why people would hate the Song of Ice and Fire. But from what Ive seen with the Game of Thrones books are discussions on who the favorite characters are and whom they dislike. Its very civil.
Heidi wrote: "I can perfectly understand why people would hate the Song of Ice and Fire. But from what Ive seen with the Game of Thrones books are discussions on who the favorite characters are and whom they dislike. Its very civil."I've noticed this, too. There's a completely different tone to people when discussing different books, and it's odd when it's the same people. It's like they come on Twilight threads to vent and then go on to other threads to talk like civilized human beings.
Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid series doesn't mean we hate it just to hate it. The majority of us that have rated it one or two stars have actually read the boo..."You seemed to have missed everything about this discussion. And your comment kind of proved the whole point of the whole thread. Your argument wasn't very civilized or nice, was it? No one is saying anything against people don't like the books - we're against the people who constantly rant about it and imply that those who did enjoy the series are idiots (in short, people like you.) There's nothing wrong not liking a book - you just need to learn not to be a jerk about it.
Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid series doesn't mean we hate it just to hate it. The majority of us that have rated it one or two stars have actually read the boo..."Well, personally it isn't the best book in the world but not EVERYONE hates it, so I believe you shouldn't say that.
Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid series doesn't mean we hate it just to hate it. The majority of us that have rated it one or two s..."No, I'm not a fan of the series. You just came off as unbelievably judgmental and rude. You do realize that there are people on here who did like the series, right? You knew that, yet instead of being classy and polite when stating why you didn't enjoy it, you were blatantly mean. It sounded suspiciously like a rant to me. With your comment, are you really that surprised that people would call you a "hater"? I think people like you are the reason why people who dislike Twilight earn that name.
Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid series doesn't mean we hate it just to hate it. The majority of us ..."But NO ONE said everyone who dislikes Twilight is a hater. This whole topic was about the people who actively go out to be jerks. Because haters DO love to hate. How is that offensive at all? How is it lumping you all into one category? We're talking about HATERS, not every person who doesn't like Twilight. You, on the other hand, were just really rude with your comment - why would I not be offended? You have no idea what I thought about the book, yet you still used your assumption that I did enjoy them as an insult. You can tell us why you disliked the book without being a jerk, okay?
"If fans of the series can be angry with anti's who are being disrespectful, then anti's can be angry with fans who are being disrespectful."
NO ONE is being disrespectful toward you. God. Where in this topic did you get that? Honestly, where are you going with this? You, yourself, assumed that YOU were one of the haters we were talking about and started this whole "pointless argument." That says something.
"Would you like it if I said that anyone who rated the book three stars was a moron with horrible taste in books?"
What does that have to do with anything? You do realize that with your review you pretty much implied that you thought anyone who liked the books was dumb? Why are you trying to turn it back on me when it was you making crazy assumptions in the first place?
I really don't what to do with someone like you. If you don't want to start arguments, why would you post something rude like that? No doubt you'll reply with another argument. I honestly don't want to continue something that will last for days and you will never admit that what you said was rude, so I'm just going to end it right here.
Bye.
Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid series doesn't mean we hate it just ..."I just couldn't help myself. You did, several times, in your third comment. And the same goes for you, believe me.
I still don't think that everyone who doesn't like Twilight is obsessed with it, but after the last few weeks I would say there are a lot mroe than I originally thought that I would consider obsessed.
Mickey wrote: "I agree with you, Cassie, that the Twilight discussion is different than other discussions on this site. There has always been more posters here who "hate" the series than posters who like it and t..."
Yes, its very odd to me. It reminds me of that quote by Shakespeare that goes something like.."me think, the lady doth protest too much." Wish I could get it right. I think they really like it on some level but are somehow cowards. They may be the type who like to lie to themselves.
Yes, its very odd to me. It reminds me of that quote by Shakespeare that goes something like.."me think, the lady doth protest too much." Wish I could get it right. I think they really like it on some level but are somehow cowards. They may be the type who like to lie to themselves.
Tina J wrote: "In a nutshell - haters LOVE to hate!"
Oh, you are so right. Yes, there are some who love to hate. Thanks for pointing that out.
Oh, you are so right. Yes, there are some who love to hate. Thanks for pointing that out.
I think some of the major haters are not hating on Twilight itself as much as they are fixated on hating fans. I find it interesting that many of the virulent haters are adult males, who I don't believe have even read the book, seeing as how they never reference it or give specifics in their comments. I think it's more of a woman-hating thing, actually. Twilight is a love story about a female by a female author and having a largely female fan base. I think there is a level of misogyny that you can see seeping into some of the comments.
Peace wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves this stupid serie..."Um? What...?
Alice wrote: "Peace wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Alice wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Don't call us "haters". Just because not everyone loves thi..."
LOL! I think its time for me to find another group!
LOL! I think its time for me to find another group!
Mickey wrote: "I think some of the major haters are not hating on Twilight itself as much as they are fixated on hating fans. I find it interesting that many of the virulent haters are adult males, who I don't be..."I don't agree with this. I think that the reason some men don't like this book is that they can't understand it. I don't think it's a gender thing.
As women, at some point, we were the target audience for this book. We understand first love from a female perspective. We understand how all consuming it is. As men, they can't understand our perspective of first love no matter how much they read about it. First love for men and women is very different because our emotions are so very different.
I think the fact that they are arguing mostly with females is because the readers of this book were mostly women.
Angie wrote: "I don't agree with this. I think that the reason some men don't like this book is that they can't understand it. I don't think it's a gender thing."I'm not necessarily talking about why men dislike the book as much as why so many of the male posters decide to go on the threads and act the way that they do.
I think that it's entirely possible that some of the male posters are motivated by a free-floating anger towards women in general and that this is a big factor in why they're posting.
There's no doubt that the intended audience for this is female. With that in mind, isn't it a little strange that some of these men, who have shown no interest in romance or women's books before suddenly get a hankering to read Twilight? (Although I think it's possible very few have actually read it.)
I don't agree that men and women are uniformly different. It's entirely possible for a man to feel the same sorts of emotions about first love as described in the book. (Hasn't Gerd said he has?)
I think that much of the abuse that Twilight gets can be traced back to the fact that it is seen as so female, and I still contend that the reaction to sparkling is rooted in the assumption that anything seen as feminine is inferior, weak, and ridiculous.
Mickey wrote: "I think that it's entirely possible that some of the male posters are motivated by a free-floating anger towards women in genera"Yes, that's why we are criticizing an anti-feminist book LOL
Mickey wrote: "I think that much of the abuse that Twilight gets can be traced back to the fact that it is seen as so female, and I still contend that the reaction to sparkling is rooted in the assumption that anything seen as feminine is inferior, weak, and ridiculous. "I criticise anything that tries to portray gender types in such broad, stereotypical sweeps, whether it's "feminine" or "masculine".
Widely off the mark again.
I didn't read this whole thread, but I thought I would give my two cents anyways considering I am someone who rated this book with one star! (And, in my opinion one star was generous)The problem with being a Twilight hater is you have Twilight thrust in your face at every turn. Especially when a movie comes out. It makes me wonder what people actually see in these books/movies. Honestly, they are horrible. They are horribly written, Bella is pathetic, Edward is an emo posessive stalker sparkly Vampire. What the hell? Where is the appeal?
Did you know that Edward and Bella's relationship meets every criteria for an abusive relationship? Also, Bella meets every criteria for patheticness (In my opinion :) )
So why do people flock to it? I think that's why I find myself perusing things that have to do with Twilight every so often.
And, let's be honest, Harry Potter is in a completley other league than Twilight. They can't be compared b/c there is no comparison. Where Harry Potter is smart, quick witted, thoughtful and full of underlying awesomeness, Twilight is bland and one dimensional.
Megan wrote: "I didn't read this whole thread, but I thought I would give my two cents anyways considering I am someone who rated this book with one star! (And, in my opinion one star was generous)The problem ..."
The problem I find with the 'thrust in my face at every turn' argument is that this thread was not thrust in your face. You chose to visit it. You may not have been actively seeking it out, but you could have passed right by. Instead, you chose to participate.
This is an argument that a lot of people use for not liking Twilight, but my question is, why are you even opening the threads? (Not directed at you specifically...just anyone in general who insists that Twilight is 'thrust' upon them.)
Angie wrote: "This is an argument that a lot of people use for not liking Twilight, but my question is, why are you even opening the threads? (Not directed at you specifically...just anyone in general who insists that Twilight is 'thrust' upon them.) "To answer for me personally, I came on the threads originally to disucss with the non-'haters' what they saw in the book that I didn't. I will check the threads out every now and again if I see what looks like an interesting topic - or if my notifications go squiffy (which they do a lot) I'll always check all my notifications out without seeing first what they relate to.
I do find though that in RL terms Twilight is very much 'pushed' to the front. My local Waterstones shows Twilight and Fifty Shades at the shop entrance and again in the paranormal section (obs not Fifty Shades), when a new movie is out it seems to always be in every TV break and being shown before every movie I go and see. I have never seen this done with other films I have actually been interested in - not to the degree which I have personally seen in Twilight.
Angie wrote: "Megan wrote: "I didn't read this whole thread, but I thought I would give my two cents anyways considering I am someone who rated this book with one star! (And, in my opinion one star was generous)..."Agreed :) I could have just went on my merry way. But, I do like to peruse these type of threads every now and then to see what others find appealing about these books? It absolutley baffles me, and so I read to understand. Once the movies are all done and gone and I don't see Edward and Bella's face everywhere I go, perhaps my intrigue with the mind of Twilight lovers will wane. Who knows?
Twilight is just a pop trend. The books aren't great, but they aren't so bad either. It's just that because they are in the movies, that everyone has to have an opinion on it. In the lists it is one of the "best books ever", which is ridiculous. I guess in about a year or two, people can rate this book as it actually is. Average.
Carina wrote: "Angie wrote: "This is an argument that a lot of people use for not liking Twilight, but my question is, why are you even opening the threads? (Not directed at you specifically...just anyone in gene..."The same thing happens with every popular book to movie "franchise" - Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, and now probably with The Mortal Instruments. The people who aren't really fans of any of those can also argue that those are being "pushed" in front of them. I get what you're saying, but I think noticing this has a lot to do with not liking it rather than it is actually being shoved in your face, you know?
Megan wrote: "I didn't read this whole thread, but I thought I would give my two cents anyways considering I am someone who rated this book with one star! (And, in my opinion one star was generous)The problem ..."
I love the Harry Potter books. Look, no one is comparing Twilight and Harry Potter. In fact, the only people I've seen compare the two are Harry Potter fans who do it and then whine about the comparison later. They're completely different stories. You said they couldn't be compared, yet you compared them? I disagree with qualifying their relationship as "abusive." Although Bella is a pathetic character, you're right, no one would have said anything about their relationship had the gender roles been reversed.
Alice wrote: " I get what you're saying, but I think noticing this has a lot to do with not liking it rather than it is actually being shoved in your face, you know? ."Perhaps for some people but I would disagree for me personally - I hate the Star Wars movies and recall that when they were doing episodes 1-3 there was a *lot* of advertising going on but it wasn't in every advert on the TV or every time before a movie shows.
TBH I think a lot of 'modern' advertising does take a more active role - I mean I know that one person on this site is reading Anna Karenina due to the relentles advertising of the movie.. as I said in my first post I have seen this done before but perhaps not to the extent with Twilight but this could be due to the change in times... to take HP as an example I recall the movies being advertised a lot but I wouldn't consider the advertising on them to be as 'brash' as Twilights advertising - which makes me wonder if it is simply advertising techniques have changed to attempt to cash in on the various money cows.
Regardless, I personally see Twilight as being very pushed forward at the moment - which if you like it then whoo but if you're not a fan can be irritating.
Carina wrote: "Alice wrote: " I get what you're saying, but I think noticing this has a lot to do with not liking it rather than it is actually being shoved in your face, you know? ."Perhaps for some people but..."
I'm mostly indifferent to it - maybe why I don't notice it that way. But, I think what you're talking about is kind of how Twilight is going into various other industries? I remember there was this thing about how NHL got some of their top athletes to walk one of the premieres. There was a beauty line for Twilight. Hunger Games did the same thing with nail polishes for the series. I think that has a lot to do with those other industries trying to cash in on the series and get some attention on the way too. I think that had more to do with those industries rather than the studio's advertising (because, honestly, I doubt they had to advertise much anyways.)
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99% of conversations devolve into defending Twlight and it is always the same old arguments. I don't think it only happens with YA fiction. It seems to happen most often with contemporary books that are immensely popular in the media. The Hunger Games gets accused of being a poorly written Battle Royale ripoff. 50 Shades haters always say the same things too -- poorly written, porn, depicts an abusive relationship. Gone Girl -- (view spoiler)[ . horrible ending because Amy didn't get caught and Nick was crazy to stay with her.
(hide spoiler)] Twilight and 50 Shades seem to catch the most flack, though. I assume that is mainly due to the media attention they both recieved.
Not liking a book doesn't automatically make someone a "hater". It's when that person goes out of their way to take every opportunity to remind fans of why they hate the book so much. Even in discussions where it isn't applicable. I would call that an obsession.