The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Croissants, Coffee & Tea -- Part the Eighth
MadgeUK wrote: "...here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland ...."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APY-m9...
Madge -- this an hour long, but absolutely spectacular. I watched it full screen on my 20" monitor and truly enjoyed it all. Thank you!
MadgeUK wrote: "I think it clashed with Strictly come Dancing on BBC Lynn. For Sherlock Holmes fans here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland which takes in the story of his 'death' at the Eisenbach ..."
Madge - thanks for posting! I love trains, and would love to see Europe by rail someday. I only watched the first couple of minutes, but when I have more time this weekend, I will watch the entire hour.
And sad to see that reality tv mania is an issue in the UK as well as the U.S. A quality show like The Hour, and people would rather watch another dance show. Blah... :-(
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For Sherlock Holmes fans here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland which takes in the story of his 'death' a..."
So agree with the crap they call reality tv. I hate that it is the most prevalent thing on TV. Would much rather have something of quality.
Deborah wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "I think it clashed with Strictly come Dancing on BBC Lynn. For Sherlock Holmes fans here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland which takes in the story of..."
I don't watch "reality" shows either. I think they stick because they're cheaper than a program requiring a writer, director, lighting, etc.
The Switzerland prog was one of a series on European trains, which followed one on British trains - here are some youtube links:-http://www.youtube.com/results?search...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COIgx...
I have been looking for Episode 16 of the British journeys because Portillo went to my friend's s/h bookshop in Alnwick which is housed in a Victorian railway station, and the shop was shown during the interview. This link doesn't seem to work:-
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/p...
MadgeUK wrote: "The Switzerland prog was one of a series on European trains, which followed one on British trains - here are some youtube links:-http://www.youtube.com/results?search......"
The error message I get is "This video is private." I've never seen that on a video.
Try searching in Youtube's own search engine for "Berwick-Upon-Tweed to Morpeth"
or "Railway Berwick-Upon-Tweed"
or something similar
Oddly the Youtube search engine, actually Google, comes up with some pretty odd stuff.
It's possible no one has cribbed it and posted it yet.
Also, are the videos on the TV channel's site?
Yes they are on the BBC site but I don't think you can get them in the US. Here is the bookshop one:-http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01bfbzt
MadgeUK wrote: "Can you pick up the BBC one?"No, only videos on their Iplayer. Why not take a few screenshots of your friend's store snd upload them to your website.
I don't have a website and I am unlikely to visit their shop again soon as it is in the 'far north.:). BTW Mary Manley is from Missouri and married my friend (who lodged with me when he was 19:)) around 25 years ago, after a romantic meeting on a plane flying to New York. There are some nice pics here:- http://www.barterbooks.co.uk/html/Abo...
Stuart is also responsible for the plethora of 'Keep Calm and Carry On' posters and artefacts now seen all over the world, after finding an original WWII poster whilst unpacking books. However, he did not copyright his first posters and other people soon jumped on his bandwagon:( Here is a pic of Stu and Mary and the story of the poster, interspersed with good shots of the bookshop :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHkKX...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/wo...
Someone on the big knitting website, Ravelry, changed the sign to "Keep Calm and Carry Yarn."
Yes, there are parodies of it all over the place:)
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I have a bookmark that says Keep Calm and Have a Cupcake.
Deborah wrote: "I have a bookmark that says Keep Calm and Have a Cupcake."I like the idea, but hardly consistent with the experiences of any of us who have given a kids birthday party with lots of cake and candy. :-)
MadgeUK wrote: "I think it clashed with Strictly come Dancing on BBC Lynn. For Sherlock Holmes fans here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland which takes in the story of his 'death' at the Eisenbach ..."
Just finished watching. Lovely show. I've always thought of doing Europe by train, and after seeing this, definitely want to do so. Instead of rushing through, you can stop at particular stations and see the sites.
And I liked the Reichenbach Falls segment although they weren't as big as I thought they would be.
This line from The Atlantic magazine may infuriate some fans, however, after watching my first full two hours of "Downton Abbey," I laughed as I read it: "Preposterous as history, preposterous as drama, the show succeeds magnificently as bad television." [Bold added.]Regardless, fans may still enjoy this rather pompous article taking advantage of the likely pull of readership for such a popular topic:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/a...
I thoroughly enjoyed Downton Abbey last night. Yes, it is a period soap opera, but it is my guilty pleasure at this time of year.Great one liners as usual by Maggie Smith, but she was one upped at the end by Shirley MacLaine.
But...while I like Shirley MacLaine - and I know she was criticized a lot by the British press - she was miscast. The wealthy at that time - the Newport crowd - wouldn't have liked her behavior any more than the Downton crowd. She was a bit tacky - and I know the Brits like to throw all Americans into that tacky group - but as much as Brits want to believe that, it isn't the reality. Again, particularly with that wealthy circle at that time period. They had their own set of rules that couldn't be broken.
Lynnm wrote: "I thoroughly enjoyed Downton Abbey last night. Yes, it is a period soap opera, but it is my guilty pleasure at this time of year.Great one liners as usual by Maggie Smith, but she was one upped ..."
What you're really saying is that it wasn't written and directed properly. She could have portrayed Martha differently otherwise.
a small nitpick--her family is Jewish, which only one other friend noticed. (Husband Meyer Levinson, and he had been a self-made dry good millionaire.) She couldn't have been in the Newport crowd as Jews set up their own country clubs and institutions. But I'm nitpicking. That's a topic that Fellowes chose not to pursue. Too much reality.
I already noted in Season 1 that the master-servant roles were wonky. Upstairs Downstairs and Remains of the Day it's not. So it's a bit of fantasy. It's still excellent writing, acting, direction (with a few exceptions) and production values. That makes it far superior to 90% of the stuff on TV and much that passes for cinema these days. IT IS NOT BAD TELEVISION!
Attitudes towards servants did change after WWI, when officers and their servants served and died together in the trenches. Also, other work became available in factories and shops and it became difficult to keep servants, so their employers had to be more friendly towards them in order to keep them. Labour saving devices also became more common and fewer servants were needed, so by the mid-twenties there were many fewer servants than in 1914, even in the great houses. I think it is this change that Fellowes is depicting.
Rochelle wrote: "What you're really saying is that it wasn't written and directed properly. She could have portrayed Martha differently otherwise. a small nitpick--her family is Jewish, which only one other friend noticed. (Levinson, and her husband had been a self-made dry good millionaire.) She couldn't have been in the Newport crowd as Jews set up their own country clubs and institutions. But I'm nitpicking. That's a topic that Fellowes chose not to pursue. Too much reality. "
Good point.
There were too many mixed messages about the character and Cora's family.
Martha Levinson mentions Newport, which is why I brought it up. But as you said - and I noticed it as well - Cora's family is Jewish, and therefore, wouldn't be in Newport society. Aside from that, someone from Cincinnati who made their fortune in dry goods most likely wouldn't be in Newport society either.
I don't know if Fellowes just doesn't know his American history or he chooses to ignore American history.
My favorite line from Shirley Maclaine:Smith: 'You Americans never understand the importance of tradition.'
MacLaine: 'Yes we do. We just don't give it power over us. Maybe you should think about letting go of its hand.'
Last semester, we talked a lot about the good, bad, and the ugly of tradition so I was amused by the comments regarding traditions.
Rochelle wrote: "I already noted in Season 1 that the master-servant roles were wonky. Upstairs Downstairs and Remains of the Day it's not. So it's a bit of fantasy. It's still excellent writing, acting, direction ..."I agree to a point.
It certainly isn't bad television. But I wouldn't put Downton up there with other quality shows: Mad Men, Homeland, etc.
But still...it's my favorite!
She couldn't have been in the Newport crowd as Jews set up their own country clubs and institutions.Surely they mixed with others too - they certainly did in the UK as is evidenced in Trollope novels.
MadgeUK wrote: "Attitudes towards servants did change after WWI, when officers and their servants served and died together in the trenches. Also, other work became available in factories and shops and it became d..."But he depicted a close relationship right from the beginning. Remember Mrs. Patmore's eye operation?
MadgeUK wrote: "She couldn't have been in the Newport crowd as Jews set up their own country clubs and institutions.Surely they mixed with others too - they certainly did in the UK as is evidenced in Trollope no..."
Mixed in business, yes, but they were openly barred from joining social institutions, and couldn't live in certain towns or neighborhoods. . As late as 1949, Gentleman's Agreement depicted that antisemitism through a journalist who passes as Jewish to explore the subject. And until recently, Jews weren't allowed to buy a home in Bronxville, a town right near me.
LynnM--
Theoretically, her children and grandchildren would be Jewish too. I think he had chosen to ignore on Martha's Jewishness, hoping no one noticed a single sentence 2 years ago in a bio of Cora on the PBS website.
Someone has recorded Maggie's quips on last night's show:Dowager Countessdown
6. "They look far too exciting for so early in the evening."
5. "Was Napoleon overawed by the Bourbons?"
4. "No guest should be admitted without their date of departure settled."
3. "Never mistake a wish for a certainty."
2. "I don’t know what that means. It sounds almost as peculiar as you look."
1. "Do you think I could have a drink? I’m so sorry, I thought you were a waiter."
Rochelle post 513: There was no such segregation in the UK although there was of course prejudice. Ditto with blacks.
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Dowager Countessdown
6. "They look far too exciting for so early in the evening."
5. "Was Napoleon overawed by the Bourbons?"
4. "No gu..."
I personally love No. 4
MadgeUK wrote: "Rochelle post 513: There was no such segregation in the UK although there was of course prejudice. Ditto with blacks."It wasn't state-sponsored segregation in the North like the Jim Crow laws in the South. There was no sign in Bronxville saying "Jews not welcome to buy homes here." It was just an open secret ignored by the lawmakers until it became illegal.
Looks like you had it in the UK too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...
Rochelle wrote: "Someone has recorded Maggie's quips on last night's show:Dowager Countessdown
6. "They look far too exciting for so early in the evening."
5. "Was Napoleon overawed by the Bourbons?"
4. "No gu..."
Thanks for posting. And I also like # 4.
Lynnm wrote: "Thanks for posting. And I also like # 4"Sounds like we should take a vote.
It was meant to last only one season. Like all soap operas, this one is spending too much time recycling old story lines. Here's an irreverent view from the ezine Slate :
http://tinyurl.com/bjjotxd
Rochelle wrote: "Here's an irreverent view from the ezine Slate :http://tinyurl.com/bjjotxd ..."
Rochelle -- try giving us the "real" url? This one didn't work, at least for me.
Did anyone read The Atlantic article and have a further comment, cryptic or not?
(I'm sorry some of you seem to have had ill experiences with house guests -- perhaps relatives, which can be sticky?)
Lily wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Here's an irreverent view from the ezine Slate :http://tinyurl.com/bjjotxd ..."
Rochelle -- try giving us the "real" url? This one didn't work, at least for me.
Did anyone re..."
Sorry
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv...
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On the Jewish question, the Countess of Carnarvon who lived at Highclere Castle and made it a hospital during WWI, was the daughter of a Rothschild, so of Jewish descent, and also illegitimate. Yet royals visited her and she was a great force in society.
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Yes, we can see from Trollope, Galsworthy and Eliot (Daniel Deronda) that Jews here had a good status in society although there was, of course, prejudice. The Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) was from a Jewish family but converted to Christianity when he was young. Edith Wharton's Buccaneers were based on real Americans who married into the aristocracy, I think a couple were Jews?
http://edwardianpromenade.com/women/t...
History was made today in the UK - the UK Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, a Liberal Democrat, took phone calls from the public and will be doing so each Thursday for the next few weeks. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/polit...
MadgeUK wrote: "History was made today in the UK - the UK Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, a Liberal Democrat, took phone calls from the public and will be doing so each Thursday for the next few weeks. http:/..."
That's a great idea!
I like Nick Clegg - too bad he aligned himself to Cameron.
Which reminds me, Prime Minsters Questions hasn't been on in a long time because of the holidays. Hopefully, it is back this week. Must check. Hope that I didn't miss a week.
Robin wrote: "I adore Downton Abbey, but I'm a sucker for period dramas, and I've been surprised how many others here are addicted. I think the fact that there are only about 9 hours a year helps. I'm afraid it ..."And the cast has been doing the TV rounds. I usually don't watch Katie, but did watch it yesterday because they had on the DA cast.
The guy who plays Thomas is so sweet in real life. Not at all like his character. And I felt bad for him - I think he was a bit taken aback when Katie said, everyone hates your character. Not the best of interviews.
And like the Free Bates t-shirt. :-)
MadgeUK wrote: "Edith Wharton's Buccaneers were based on real Americans who married into the aristocracy, I think a couple were Jews?..."Ironic, I was thinking of The Buccaneers today -- I had been reading Dicken's unfinished The Mystery of Edwin Drood and looking a bit at the ending constructed by Leon Garfield. I remember how quite negative the critics were about how Buccaneers was finished by another writer and how, at the time, I had difficulty recognizing the transition from one author to another. Today, and I don't know whether it is the years of reading experience in between or other factors, I felt more like I could sense the shift, even though I am not particularly a reader of Dickens.
I don't remember if Edith had Jewish heiresses in her cast of characters.
I can't speak to their academic accuracy (scholarship), but these two Wiki articles seem to comprise a fairly wide range of information about Jewish experience and demographics in the U.S.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American...
In the article you cited, I noticed the following and am wondering if there is good historical fiction about or memoirs of either of these women (haven't gone looking, at least yet):
"Mary Leiter, who married George Nathaniel Curzon in 1895, eventually became Vicereine of India–the highest social and political position in the British Empire behind the Queen. Despite being relegated to the shadows of history, Mary Endicott, wife of Joseph Chamberlain, was her husband’s partner and equal during his long and controversial political career."
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Lily wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "Edith Wharton's Buccaneers were based on real Americans who married into the aristocracy, I think a couple were Jews?..."Ironic, I was thinking of
The Buccaneers
today -- I ha..."
Edith had one stereotyped Jew, Rosedale, in The House of Mirth, who wanted to make Lily his mistress. If you want a good study of life among the wealthiest Jews of that period, try Our Crowd, cited above.
Christopher wrote: "Geez, all of this talk about Downton Abbey has me wondering why--for the life of me--that I haven't taken the time to watch it. Sounds like it is right up my wheelhouse. I guess I need to get the..."Never mind Netflix. Catch them here:
http://watch-tvseries.net/series60/Do...
But it's a long haul, about 16 episodes.
Lynnm wrote: "The guy who plays Thomas is so sweet in real life. "And he's a hunk, too.
Lily: For Mary Leiter there is The Viceroy's Daughters, The Lives of the Curzon Sisters by Anne de Courcy, Harper Collins Publishers, 2003. She was famed for wearing a 'peacock feather' dress:-http://beaumondegallery.blogspot.co.u...
(A vicereine isn't 'second only to the Queen', Princess Victoria, the Princess Royal (and the other princesses), would have far outranked a Vicereine socially and the Prime Minister's wife would have outranked her amongst politician's wives. The Viceroy and Governor General of India was the political representative of the Queen in India and as his wife she had a powerful social position there.)
There isn't much about Mary Endicott, who was Joseph Chamberlain's third wife. He is a very interesting character though:
http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articl...
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The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
The Madwoman in the Attic: The Woman Writer and the Nineteenth-Century Literary Imagination (other topics)House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties (other topics)
Don Quixote (other topics)
The Rifle in America (other topics)
The Buccaneers (other topics)
More...
For Sherlock Holmes fans here is a Youtube video of a rail trip in Switzerland which takes in the story of his 'death' at the Eisenbach Falls:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APY-m9...