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The Passage of Power
PRESIDENTIAL SERIES
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4. Presidential Series: PASSAGE OF POWER ~~ Oct. 8th ~ Oct. 14th ~~ Chapters SIX and SEVEN (159 - 198); No Spoilers Please
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Chapter Overviews and SummariesChapter Six: "Power Is Where Power Goes"
LBJ has a gift of acquiring power. However, as VP, it is up to the President to give him power beyond the Senate tie-breaking vote and sitting on the National Security Council. LBJ tried to hang on to Senate power by remaining chairman of the Senate Democratic Caucus. However, senior Senate Democrats killed the plan. LBJ asked JFK for an office next to the Oval Office, a large staff, and supervision of national security issues. All of this was refused. Even on the two committees (Space and Equal Employment), JFK or his Secretary of Labor controlled the agenda.
It was going to be a tough tenure as VP.
Chapter Seven: Genuine Warmth
JFK instructed his staff to make LBJ happy. However, it was apparent that LBJ was not part of JFK's inner circle of decision makers. The White House feared LBJ with his connections to reporters and being a political operator. LBJ's speeches were screened, he did not get a large airplane to travel, and was not consulted in areas he was strongest: legislative matters. LBJ tried a tactic of looking sad to make people feel sorry for him, but it failed. To make matters worse, Rayburn died of cancer in November 1961, so LBJ lost this base of power.
JFK remembered how he had to beg to LBJ while in the Senate and LBJ's attacks on JFK having Addison's Disease. LBJ settled down to a self-imposed silence, not complaining about the president at all, and LBJ began to become ridiculed.
A great quote from JFK said to Kenny O'Donnell:"But he thinks you're nothing but a clerk. Just keep that right in your mind. You have never been elected to anything by anybody, and you are dealing with a very insecure, sensitive man with a huge ego. I want you literally to kiss his fanny from one end of Washington to the other." (p. 177)
Quoting Caro . . "The second most powerful man in the country. All his life Lyndon Johnson had been taking 'nothing jobs' and making them into something -- something big. And now, no sooner had he been elected to the vice presidency than he tried to do the same thing with that office." p.228/1041 Nook edition.Talk about HUBRIS !!! Lyndon was never going to be content with the second in command label. And after having attained so much power in Congress . . . was not happy about losing it.
Quoting Caro again . . . "Hardly had he been elected to the vice presidency than Lyndon Johnson launched a campaign, unprecedented in American history on several levels, that, had it succeeded, would not only have dramatically transformed the nature of the office -- but would also, in the process, have undermined the concept of the separation of executive and legislative powers embedded in the Constitution." p.232/1041 Nook Ed.
This is why I find history so interesting . . I never was aware of all this behind the scenes maneuvering . . . it's just goes to show you how fact can frequently be WAY more exciting than fiction!
I couldn't help feeling sorry for the guy even though he brought most of it on himself. I'm anxious to see how his treatment as VP shaped him as President. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he treated his VP Humphrey or other subordinates better. Or maybe he pretty much revert to his old ways once he was in command of some real power once more.
Caro doesn't cover this subject at all in his book (how he treated his VP once he became President). Maybe in the fifth book in the series?
really? I thought it covered some of his time as Prez. i edited my previous post by adding other subordinates.
Not to go too far on this topic, because it is not covered this week, Caro will cover from Nov. 1963 until January 1964, so yes, he will cover the very beginning of his presidency. But since Humphrey doesn't arrive until January 1965, Craig's comment makes sense.
Tomerobber wrote: "Quoting Caro . . "The second most powerful man in the country. All his life Lyndon Johnson had been taking 'nothing jobs' and making them into something -- something big. And now, no sooner had he ..."LBJ is a guy that if the world does not fit you, you make alterations. Yeah, I didn't know he was manipulating power from the Senate for himself. If other Senators went along with this plan, someone might scream foul against the constitution on this one! Yikes.
Theresa wrote: "I couldn't help feeling sorry for the guy even though he brought most of it on himself. I'm anxious to see how his treatment as VP shaped him as President. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he tr..."Great question to keep in mind as we get near the end. At least we can see what he does to his subordinates. In the past, he works them like a dog and usually treats them like that, too. It was very tough to work for LBJ.
Relating to message 9:"Another continuing motif of Lyndon Johnson's career-one that had been repeated in every institution in which he had climbed to power-was that the more power he acquired, the more he reveled in its use, flaunting it, using it often just for the sake of using it, bending men to his will just to show them he could..." (p. 167)
This is the first time in a long time that he had no power and the opportunities were closed in his face. JFK gave him a run for his money, I think, and LBJ did not know what to do.
With the election over President Kennedy did not have much gratitude or use for LBJ, the team player who captured the swing states and brought in the necessary votes. JFK mentioned “I cannot stand Johnson’s damn long face.” (p.182)
Thanks, Mark, the "long face" tactic didn't work on the Kennedys, not much did.Yeah, it seems rather quickly that they were shutting LBJ off from the decision process.
I found it very interesting that LBJ had to "fake it" when he would leave by the secretary's office next to the oval office to go right past the reporters.
Very interesting points, everyone. Reading these two chapters, I wavered between being disgusted by Johnson's attempts to grab power as Vice-President, and pity for a man who got no respect from the Kennedy White House. As Mark pointed out, Kennedy's election would not have been possible without Johnson's very active help.I can understand Kennedy and his men being very leery of Johnson's lust for power and his big mouth. But after Johnson was suitably humbled and consistently supported the president at every turn, they missed a good opportunity by failing to use Johnson's consumate political skill to get their program passed in Congress.
I was also appalled that the New Frontiersmen referred to the Johnsons as "Uncle Cornpone and his Little Pork Chop." Johnson deserved whatever he got, but Lady Bird?!
I am wondering if this period in the political wilderness helped make Johnson a better man and a better president when he finally succeeded to the office.
Ann wrote: "Very interesting points, everyone. Reading these two chapters, I wavered between being disgusted by Johnson's attempts to grab power as Vice-President, and pity for a man who got no respect from t..."And to add the other side of the coin to your thought: did the VP experience make him more bitter against the Kennedys and more paranoid overall???
I was surprised he did very well in keeping himself in line. It could have easily turned ugly. I completely agree, Ann, I think he would have been a great asset to get JFK legislation through. JFK's record was poor on this matter.
You know, as I continue to read . . . a thought comes to mind that perhaps the Presidency should be occupied by two people . . one to handle Foreign Affairs and one to to handle Domestic concerns? ? ? Then the two could consult with each other and provide support.Oh no, I forgot that the egos of many politicians would never allow the sharing of the spotlight . . . :-(
Tomerobber wrote: "You know, as I continue to read . . . a thought comes to mind that perhaps the Presidency should be occupied by two people . . one to handle Foreign Affairs and one to to handle Domestic concerns? ..."Like a Roman triumvirate made permanent. Lol, you answered your own question.
Ah the Roman triumvirate, a great recollection and fantastic history.
Indeed, Mark. I can see LBJ sitting in the Roman Senate.
Great image - but I don't think he would have been satisfied. He would have wanted to be Caesar. :-)That reminds me. Politics may be nasty nowadays, but it's not nearly as bloody as it was in Roman times.
I like Bryan's comment on Johnson doing a good job keeping himself in line. even though, I suspect, it's all a show. Still what else could he really do? I'm sure in his mind he justified the humiliation for the sake of survival.
Well said, Theresa. He didn't have much of a choice. Power was given to him, he couldn't take it like he did in the past. And the attempts he did try were thwarted.I think depression might have played a role, too.
If his health held out, he probably was looking forward to 1968 where he would get his chance (if not sooner, perhaps) to be president, but it is a long road.
I love this observation by Caro,"By the time all these initial maneuvers were over -- by the end, certainly, of the first month of the Kennedy presidency -- the misreading of John F. Kennedy by Lyndon Johnson was over, too. . . . . there was a tribute (from Johnson) to the steely strength with which President Kennedy dispatched his enemies -- a tribute couched in rather remarkable words: Johnson described Kennedy 'when he looks you straight in the eye and puts that knife into you without flinching.' " p.247/1041 Nook Ed.
I think Lyndon had met his match . . . and I think the egos of both of them were so great that someone had to cry 'uncle' . . . and since LBJ was in the secondary position . . . it was him. Hubris was running rampant during those times . . . the whole 'Camelot thing' was feeding JFK's ego and LBJ was in the process of experiencing the Nemesis aspect of his attempting to give his ego full rein.
Tomerobber,Very good note.
I think you must have a tremendously strong ego to run for president, or maybe any elective office. There are so many attacks and so much rejection involved. You couldn't get where you want to go without it.
Does it become "hubris" (excessive pride in self) when it blinds you to reality and even your own self-interest?
Ann wrote: "Very interesting points, everyone. Reading these two chapters, I wavered between being disgusted by Johnson's attempts to grab power as Vice-President, and pity for a man who got no respect from t..."Ridicule is a form of bullying and I am stunned at the extent of the bullying in this political arena - both Lyndon's grabs for power and the verbal jabs of the Kennedy organization. It smacks more of the US high school experience than interactions of the 'leaders of the free world'.
I attended my civic association meeting the other night where local candidates were debating. Of course this book influenced all my thoughts, but I was appalled by the sniping and the lack of any kind of substantive discussion. Is this what politics in America is all about? (I am not really this naive, just, as Ann suggests, disgusted)
Tomerobber wrote: "I love this observation by Caro,"By the time all these initial maneuvers were over -- by the end, certainly, of the first month of the Kennedy presidency -- the misreading of John F. Kennedy by Ly..."
Great quote, Tomerobber. I agree with you that I think LBJ did meet his match. He didn't have many options, but to remain quiet. He had no power if it meant influence. This was a terrible blow for him.
Ann wrote: "Tomerobber,Very good note.
I think you must have a tremendously strong ego to run for president, or maybe any elective office. There are so many attacks and so much rejection involved. You could..."
I agree, Ann, you do need a large ego to run for office. Some where the ego better than others. It is interesting question about hubris. I don't get a sense LBJ lost his sense of self-interest. He might have been depressed, but he kept trying to do things in his self-interest (like look good for reporters by going through Lincoln's office).
Does anyone else have some thoughts?
G wrote: "Ann wrote: "Very interesting points, everyone. Reading these two chapters, I wavered between being disgusted by Johnson's attempts to grab power as Vice-President, and pity for a man who got no re..."Hey G. It is a pretty bickering world in politics. I really do think most people want to listen to issues, not fighting.
Yeah, the Kennedy White House does seem like a high school. We can point to many presidential administrations that were like that. People are jockeying for power, some high school kids do the same, to be on top of the social pyramid, perhaps??
G,I'm afraid that you can't get elected if you tell the truth. Part of the current game is to take a sentence totally out of context and twist it to support your attack. Even when fact checkers show that statistics are completely wrong, both sides keep repeating the same inaccurate figures. If you repeat a lie often enough, most people will accept it as true. It's discouraging.
You are right about the bullying. Maybe it's part of that Type-A personality you need to succeed in politics. Those young, good looking New Frontiersmen saw themselves as part of the new Camelot and looked down on old style politicians Then again, Johnson liked to call the Kennedy brothers "Sonny Boy" to their faces. What goes around, comes around?
Wow, Good notes from everyone. G: I hate to say that I agree with how many things are taken out of context today and they get repeated over and over, but the media does not help. They grab a story, true or not, many times ( I have to say I'm generalizing,I do know some reporters who are honest and do their due diligence before reporting a story...) but overall the media does influence people. I think that those times were a little different, as there was not the internet, twitter, etc, to give everyone moment by moment blows... The bullying piece is interesting, because I did a Masters thesis on bullying, and I think that the awareness of what bullying is now and the awareness then was a totally different story. For many years, that's the way business was done, it was not just politics. "Power is where Power Goes" might have been said out loud by LBJ, but many people in many professions other than politics acted that way then and it was tolerated. I don't think that the Type A personality necessarily goes with bullying... What's interesting is that in my research many people who are bullied come from backgrounds where they were oppressed themselves, and LBJ certainly didn't have a lot handed down to him on a silver platter. I am amazed at how much I am learning both about LBj and the Kennedy clan. I was very young when Kennedy was killed and I lived in South America then, and everyone acted as though a GOD had been killed. So all my life I have thought of JFK as kind of a hero, although I really never did read a lot about him... This is definitely an eye opening look at him. I agree with Tomerobber. Truth is definitely more fascinating than fiction!!
Vivien, thanks for your insights. We can certainly explain LBJ's behavior based on the psychological trauma of his childhood, but what is the JFK 'posse's' excuse? Since the study of history is partially a study of the past based on what we know today, I'd say we have to use the tools at hand in reflecting on behaviors of the past. With regard to fact checking, I couldn't agree more about the media. But I strongly believe Johnson tried to be a real public servant, a concept which has long disappeared in anything but name only.
I also agree, this truth is fascinating, and unfortunately melodramatic. Amazing that a book of history can be a page turner.
Again, since I am reading the first book of this series at the same time . . . I'm getting the sense that 'Power' to LBJ didn't come from bullying but more from a desire to BE SOMEBODY, to do something important and receive recognition for it. In v.1 "He was always willing and ready to do whatever he could. In fact, it seemed to please him for you to ask him to do something for you . . . But you had to ask. He insisted on it. . . . What was important to Johnson, they feel, was the acknowledgment -- the deferential, face-to-face, acknowledgement -- that he had the power." p.304/1476 iTunes Ed.
Now he was in a position where no one needed anything - he had already campaigned and gotten Kennedy the votes - but now Kennedy didn't NEED him for anything else. That definitely was a blow to his ego . . . and led to that 'long face' of depression.
by
Robert A. Caro
Great comments everyone. Thank you."To be somebody." It fits with his relationship with his father, the fact that he saw his father fail, lose his position to do something important. He didn't want to repeat that....hey, I wonder if he thought about his dad while he was in VP.
Oppressed environment, interesting Vivian. Being poor certainly points that way.
G wrote: "Vivien, thanks for your insights. We can certainly explain LBJ's behavior based on the psychological trauma of his childhood, but what is the JFK 'posse's' excuse? Since the study of history is par..."G, I get a sense that the Kennedy family and friends are very, very loyal. JFK could be wrong, but it doesn't matter, you stand behind him and protect him. The Kennedy family is still like that today, very protective of the Kennedy family and image.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Path to Power (other topics)The Passage of Power (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Robert A. Caro (other topics)Robert A. Caro (other topics)
The week's reading assignment is:
Week FOUR - October 8st - October 14th -> Chapters SIX and SEVEN p. 159 - 198
SIX - "The Power Is Where Power Goes" and SEVEN - Genuine Warmth
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