The Year of Reading Proust discussion
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The Captive / The Fugitive
The Captive, vol. 5
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Through Sunday, 6 Oct.: The Captive
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Marcelita wrote: "And don't forget...how he symbolizes "old France." Théodore and Françoise..."seen" in the statues at Saint-André-des-Champ."How can we ever hope to keep even half of the Recherche catalogued in our minds?
How do you do it, Marcelita?
Fionnuala wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "And don't forget...how he symbolizes "old France." Théodore and Françoise..."seen" in the statues at Saint-André-des-Champ."How can we ever hope to keep even half of the Recherc..."
Trust me, I felt the same way, when I first read the novel.
Maybe the turning point was realizing it had a circular structure...or maybe after reading Carter's biography, or even reflecting on the philosophical nature of life, but whatever it was...I really had no choice but to succumb.
So, I read Proust, or about Proust, everyday... attend anything remotely related to the novel...and answer when my husband calls me "the poor obsessive."
Martin wrote: "·Karen· wrote: "Fionnuala wrote: "Elsewhere, I've jokingly compared him to a good wine but he IS like a good wine, brawny, full-bodied, complex, decadent, massive, plummy, spicy...and just a little.".Just left off at the part where Charlus makes some very interesting claims about Odette. My initial reaction: "He must be lying. Right? Right?!" .."
When I first read how Charlus met Odette...
“'Why, it was through me that he came to know her. I had thought her charming in her boyish get-up one evening when she played Miss Sacripant; I was with some clubmates, and each of us took a woman home with him, and although all I wanted was to go to sleep, slanderous tongues alleged—it's terrible how malicious people are—that I went to bed with Odette.'" MP
... I remembered that wonderful afternoon in Estir's studio.
"One imagined moreover that it must be feigned, and that the young person who seemed ready to submit to caresses in this provoking costume had probably thought it intriguing to enhance the provocation with this romantic expression of a secret longing, an unspoken grief. [...] At the foot of the picture was inscribed: 'Miss Sacripant, October, 1872.'" MP (WBG)
Marcelita wrote: "So, I read Proust, or about Proust, everyday... attend anything remotely related to the novel...and answer when my husband calls me "the poor obsessive."Good story, Marcelita - life imitating art.
Fionnuala wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "So, I read Proust, or about Proust, everyday... attend anything remotely related to the novel...and answer when my husband calls me "the poor obsessive."-life imitating art."
And there is always another "fix."
During this week's reading, I noticed a "past" self, when I was in my "infatuation stage" with Proust and, similar to a friend who has just fallen in love, could only talk about "him."
"...as irritating as an initiate who prides himself on the secrets which he possesses and is burning to divulge..." MP
Here is the passage, the narrator on Charlus:
"He was as boring as a specialist who can see nothing outside his own subject, as irritating as an initiate who prides himself on the secrets which he possesses and is burning to divulge, as repellent as those people who, whenever their own weaknesses are in question, blossom and expatiate without noticing that they are giving offense, as obsessed as a maniac and as uncontrollably imprudent as a criminal." MP p 408
And pray a "future" self is not truly "as obsessed as a maniac." ;)
Yes indeed, Marcelita, I've been wondering recently how you and the others who are rereading the Recherche were so restrained in your comments in the early months of this group read while the rest of us were fumbling in the dark. But you allowed us to arrive at understanding in our own time - and you kept us royally entertained via the fashion pages in the meantime!Thank you.
Moving to the lounge...on Pinter's year with Proust.
Marcelita wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "In the Overture...the foundation stones are laid: "...'Come in and stop your husband drinking brandy,' in my cowardice I became at once a man, and did what all we grown men do ..."
I can think of no better way to end this year...or if I am still running my perpetual 2 weeks behind :-) begin my new year...than re-read the overture.
What a provocative thought to have re-read the overture after each volume.
Jocelyne wrote: "Isn't Charlus a superbly drawn character? He touches every emotional chord: we sneer at his arrogance, we laugh at his ridicule and weep at how pathetic he can be."So true Jocelyne. I am seeing Charlus as perfectly flawed and sympathetic...a portrait of the human condition.
I choked in delighted laughter this morning. When M. Charlus believed he was dying he developed a "Christian meekness"...and just as facilely ditched it when he was better. He is us.
"It was not that he lost his eloquence...it still flowed freely, but it had changed...it was now a quasi-mystical eloquence, embellished with words of meekness, parables from the Gospel, an apparent resignation to death."
"This Christian meekness into which his splendid violence had been transposed...provoked the admiration of those who came to his bedside."
"M. de Charlus had risen far above the level at which he had lived in the past. But this moral improvement, as to the reality of which, it must be said, his oratorical skill was capable of deceiving somewhat his impressionable audience, vanished with the malady which had laboured on his behalf. M. de Charlus redescended the downward slope with a speed which, as we shall see, continued steadily to increase." ML pp 434 & 435
How many times have I promised to be better? More admirable & moral. Saintly. To revert with speed to the person I am. Charlus is vulnerable. He is charming. He is clueless. He has been vile. He is aging and in denial with his scent and powder. He is fully fleshed. And superb
My heart warmed and I loved the Queen of Naples for offering her arm and escorting M. Charlus...who of us has not needed this in our life? Whether the cause is our own indelicate actions or words; or those of another."'Lean on my arm. You may be sure that it will always support you. It is strong enough for that.' Then, raising her eyes proudly in front of her (where Ski later told me, Mme Verdurin and Morel were standing: 'You know how in the past, at Gaeta, it held the mob at bay. It will be a shield to you.'"
The Queen of Naples held the mob at bay; when the Narrator (who also witnessed what was happening) could not put aside his own obsession and be the friend blindsided Charlus so needed.
Marcus wrote: "...My sense from the beginning of the Captive is that we're coming up to the surface after a long, fathoms deep, underwater journey and that we are entering realtime - when the mission is debriefed - from a dreamy, amniotic state before. "So perfectly and elegantly stated Marcus.
Ce Ce wrote: "Marcus wrote: "...My sense from the beginning of the Captive is that we're coming up to the surface after a long, fathoms deep, underwater journey and that we are entering realtime - when the missi..."Seems like you are entering real time too, Ce Ce!
Fionnuala wrote: "Ce Ce wrote: "Marcus wrote: "...My sense from the beginning of the Captive is that we're coming up to the surface after a long, fathoms deep, underwater journey and that we are entering realtime - ...Seems like you are entering real time too, Ce Ce!
"
Ha, ha...yes, a case of life imitating art. We are steadily coming out from under...and dazedly looking around to see a world still under our feet.
The Year of Reading Proust
Books mentioned in this topic
Gustave Flaubert (other topics)Proust connu et inconnu (other topics)
So, the "cocher" brother to the femme de chambre de Mme Putbus, is this Théodore then? ..."
And don't forget...how he symbolizes "old France."
Théodore and Françoise..."seen" in the statues at Saint-André-des-Champ.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7nV5...
"Proust and the Middle Ages" By Richard Bales (p 87)