The Year of Reading Proust discussion
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Within a Budding Grove
Within a Budding Grove, vol. 2
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Karen wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"I imagine that it is too soft, too clingy for the rather stiff formal dresses that ladies ..."
Karen, with this display I am at a loss.. What should I wear for the office tomorrow?
Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"It´s transparent but dresses can be made by lining it with more crepe.Cool but expensive.
http://www.redcarpet-fashionawards.co...
Kalliope wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"No idea. For that we would need a historian on costume.
Found this book.
Fashion and Wo..."
Maybe this can be of help
http://www.fashion-era.com/la_belle_e...
Kalliope wrote: "Karen, with this display I am at a loss.. What should I wear for the office tomorrow? "What's the weather doing with you? Temperature dictates my choice, so it'll be nothing but wool for me tomorrow. Layers and layers of it.
Patricia wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"It´s transparent but dresses can be made by lining it with more crepe.Cool but expensive.
..."
Is it? I thought it was the chiffon on that red number that was the transparent stuff.
two interesting linkshttp://vimeo.com/49690511
http://vimeo.com/46660778
they take time but I really found them excellent
THOUGH NOT ON CLOTHES :)
Karen wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"It´s transparent but dresses can be made by lining it with more crepe.Cool..."
they are almost the same thing :
http://www.mytextilenotes.com/differe...
Patricia wrote: "Karen wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"It´s transparent but dresses can be made by lining it with m..."
The crêpe is not transparent and has a certain weight.
Kalliope wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Karen wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Richard wrote: "Is there a simple reason they made only dressing gowns out of it and not everyday wear?"It´s transparent but dresses can be made by..."
You are right Kall so I´ve just checked with my Auntee Renee and she says you are right and "Pato, as usual you just think you know everything and jump to conclusions without checking things first,"She forgets she was the one that gave me the material and called it that and it was transparent,Now we have a family feud.
Jeremy wrote: "If, in fact, Gilberte was telling the Narrator that her parents didn't care for him when in fact they may have had very little thoughts on him at all...It is very easy to fall into the trap of believing everything the Narrator conveys even when he himself cannot be sure of the information."M. Compangnon in his lecture at Le College de France: Proust in 1913 (delivered 1/13) makes the point that the text of Swann's Way is "mobile, precarious, unstable..." as he is continually rewriting events, changing characters, situations (sometimes 3 or 4 times or more & even on galley proofs that near publication) and melding, mixing, blending realities as he remembers them or imagines them: the family relations in Combray, the lady in pink, etc; furthermore as Proust writes in a letter (to I've forgotten whom) he compares his text to a winding train ride where what appears on your left now appears on your right, much like the steeples seen from Dr. Percipied's carriage, so says M. Compagnon.
I don't know what to believe, I assume nothing, I read on...
I like the winding train ride analogy. It also echoes some of the memories that the narrator has, and which shed a layer here or take on another layer there, as they are warped either through time or experience.
I like it too, M. Compangnon/Proust being playful too as the image of that train winding features in Volume II sometimes.
Eugene wrote: "?...he compares his text to a winding train ride where what appears on your left now appears on your right, much like the steeples seen from Dr. Percipied's carriage, so says M. Compagnon. ..."Thanks for giving us these gems from Compagnon's lecture, Eugene.
I like that he confirms how 'mobile, precarious, unstable' the text is so we don't feel it is any lack of comprehension on our part that makes it seem so. I like also that Proust was aware of this, that it was his intent and that the passage about the steeples has even more significance than we realized when we originally read it.
Jocelyne wrote: "I like the winding train ride analogy. It also echoes some of the memories that the narrator has, and which shed a layer here or take on another layer there, as they are warped either through time..."Yes...I too love the winding train analogy.
Remember the traveler at a train station analogy at the beginning of Swann's Way? It was the first and second page. The Narrator wondering what time it was spoke of the whistling of trains "now nearer and now further off" and the marking of memory for a traveler who is on an unfamiliar journey...that fact of unfamiliarity making the path and those met along the way more poignant and memorable.
Cheryl wrote: "Jocelyne wrote: "I like the winding train ride analogy. It also echoes some of the memories that the narrator has, and which shed a layer here or take on another layer there, as they are warped ei..."Yes, the imagery of the traveller comes up relatively often. The first time is at the very beginning of the work when he describes the sensations when waking up in Combray, and in other rooms.
Also in his first Proust in 1913 lecture given in January of 2013 at Le Collège de France, Antoine Compagnon tells of graduate students coming to him at the beginning of the year and asking him to supervise them while doing their masters theses or their doctoral dissertations on Proust; he would say to them, "What possibly could you say new about Proust?"
Kalliope wrote: "I enjoyed the passage with the princesse Mathilde.The wiki is good.
English version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathilde...
French version is longer:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat..."
Here is a Paris Review article, by Lorin Stein, describing Proust writing about Princesse Mathilde:
"The epigraph comes from “An Historical Salon,” an essay—really, a celebrity profile—that Proust wrote for Le Figaro in late 1902. His subject is the Princesse Mathilde Bonaparte..."
"The best part of the essay is Proust’s description of how the princess reconciled with her old friend the Duc d’Aumale. When they were young, he was exiled by her cousin (and former suitor) Louis-Napoléon. The duke wrote Louis-Napoléon a famously insulting open letter—then actually challenged him to a duel:"
It is interesting to read about the "historical salon" and then compare it to the passage on page 157:
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/20...
And, if we remember that that in Un Amour de Swann, Cottard says "Il faut que j'aille entretenir un instant le duc d'Aumale," meaning he needs to go to the toilet but everyone laughs because, once again, he has got it wrong and the phrase actually means 'to make love', this story of the Princesse Mathilde and the Duc is even more interesting...
Fionnuala wrote: "And, if we remember that that in Un Amour de Swann, Cottard says "Il faut que j'aille entretenir un instant le duc d'Aumale," meaning he needs to go to the toilet but everyone laughs because, once ..."Thank you. I had forgotten about Cottard and the duc d'Aumole.
Kalliope wrote: "Thank you. I had forgotten about Cottard and the duc d'Aumole. ..."The duc sounds a lot like the model for a minor character in Anatole France's Le Lys Rouge, Le Marquis de Ré.
OK, all you first-time readers...Proust is throwing some heavy hints. Remember how the Narrator and his grandmother are very surprised that Mme. de Villiparisis knows more about the Narrator's travels than they do? (The lost luggage, etc.). In addition, reread "Dinner with M. de Norpois" carefully, and you'll get it!
I've been reading Around Proust by Richard Goodkin. He has an amazing theory about Gilberte's birth. "Long after they have ceased relations, she [Odette] comes to him frenetically, and asks him to make love to her...soon after, Odette leaves on her cruise, which is supposed to last for only a month but goes on for a year...I would argue that it is during this cruise that Gilberte is born; this would explain why Mme. Cottard, upon meeting Swann after her return to Paris, mysteriously hints at a reconciliation between Swann and Odette...How else can we explain that reconciliation, which must take place some time between the end of "Swann in Love"--at which point Swann is fully out of love with Odette and seems to have no plans of seeing her again--and the time of their marriage some years later?"It's an interesting theory; and: BTW, Proust takes pains, in the "tea party" section, to mention how much Gilberte resembles her father.
I had a similar theory which I posted on the Sunday 24th of February discussion, comment 104: With regard to Odette's pregnancy, I understood that her being away with the Verdurins was the strategy Proust used to allow Swann to be ignorant of her state for as long as possible so that his finally marrying her becomes such a drama since we know he's had enough time away from her to recover from his infatuation and might have taken a different path in life were it not for his 'offstage' discovery of Gilberte's existence. Proust also has the Cottards leave the cruise well before the birth, and so Mme Cottard doesn't tell Swann about it. I presumed it was intended that Odette had the baby somewhere on route and that the baby would have been sent back to France with a nurse.
OK, now I feel stupid...I guess that was before I found the group. Anyway, I wanted to point out how Proust emphasizes Gilberte's resemblance to Swann to all those who had Dark Suspicions of Odette.
Not at all, Elizabeth. I'm delighted you confirmed my supposition and backed it up with the authority of a professional Proust person! And I did wonder about who Gilberte's father might be until that scene where Proust underlines her physical resemblance to Swann. Has Swann a first name - I forget...
Charles. His first name is Charles. It's not mentioned often, but it springs (or limps) to mind...
Oh yes and wasn't Charles Haas one of the models for him, and Charles Ephrussi too?
Yes, and there's a fantastic photo taken of Charles Haas at the Jockey Club. He is standing with 3 other men, and they are pointing and laughing at the camera. Whoever took it probably wasn't supposed to be there.
OK, I didn't find the one I was looking for, but...google: Charles Haas en 1895 par Nadar. You will see a portrait of Swann...it's uncanny.
Thanks, Elizabeth - but first-time readers, watch out for spoilers in the Nader page.I had read Du côté and half of À l'ombre some years ago but from here on I'm a first-time reader too and we're a sensitive lot with regard to spoilers, I'm afraid....
I imagine that it is too soft, too clingy for the rather stiff formal dresses that ladies would be wearing in public. The style they wore around the late 1880s-1890s was that smooth fronted skirt with a slight bustle at the back. That would need a taffeta or a silk damask or brocade.
Check this out, some gorgeous stuff here. My personal interest means that I particularly appreciate the tennis dress.
http://pinterest.com/happineff/histor...