The Year of Reading Proust discussion
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Within a Budding Grove
Within a Budding Grove, vol. 2
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Fionnuala wrote: "Cassian wrote: ".. How much is he re-creating and re-forming his childhood religion?."I think Proust is indeed 're-forming' the religious teaching he must have experienced as a young child, possi..."
You will probably reread the whole thing.
Eugene wrote: "Marcus wrote: "Found this 'ineffable moments once in a lifetime' line desperately sad actually."For me it is wistful and beautiful and telling of how Proust experiences beauty, this passage that ..."
No, I understood that the 'ineffable moments' line came with the benefit of, to use your word, 'retroflection' but that's exactly why it's so poignant, for me. He discovered that 'truth' through living many years of life without that knowledge. Hope transmuted into wisdom via disillusionment - no bad thing actually.
Fionnuala wrote: "Cassian wrote: ".. How much is he re-creating and re-forming his childhood religion?."I think Proust is indeed 're-forming' the religious teaching he must have experienced as a young child, possi..."
Here is an old Proust site from Jeff Drouin: "Ecclesiastical Proust Archive"
Assistant Professor of English
Associate Director, Modernist Journals Project
University of Tulsa
http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/colle...
"Ecclesiastical Proust Archive"
Jeff Drouin is interested in Digital Humanities...Topic Modeling, Social Network Analysis, etc..
http://orgs.utulsa.edu/proust/
Some "church" pages
http://orgs.utulsa.edu/proust/?q=node...
http://orgs.utulsa.edu/proust/?q=node...
Marcus wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Marcus wrote: "Wondering about a link between dining room descriptions of the various characters and cliques in the Grand Hotel and those in dining room of the sanitorium Hans Cast..."Oh! you´ve burst my balloon!
Marcus wrote: "Found this 'ineffable moments once in a lifetime' line desperately sad actually. In fact this week showed me a lot of melancholy in the narrator, contrasted with the more upbeat optimism of Mme De Sevigne..."I finished this section early this morning...so much has been said already in this thread. However I agree, I too, had a strong sense of melancholy...of loneliness. The litany of young women he wished to be visible to...his removal from lovingly rendered observations...his illness & frailty. And, as stunning as his description of the sea...he is, himself, in his own fishbowl painting the world around him...light refracting and splintering and reflecting.
As the narrator spoke of the three trees...his attempt at recovering his memory of them and their significance recalled the steps he took to recollect the madeleine and tisane. I do not have the book in front of me but I believe he promised to return to the three trees later...I think it was a short sentence slipped in.
The description of the pink flowered silk chair with glistening silver threads that also held the smell of his grandmother's room was so simply and eloquently evocative in expressing grandmother.
Eugene, you mentioned..."...how important it is for the young Narrator to be seen, to be remembered."
I would add that I have noticed he also displays a desire to be included, as he remarks to himself on page 253 of the Grieves edition:
"I had none of the dignified indifference that a man of the world would have felt toward the people lunching in that dining room or the young men and girls walking past on the esplanade: it was galling to think I could go on none of their outings..."
He seems to have an ambivalence...the Narrator exploring multiple facets as he does in all things...I just read the first paragraphs of the next section...he reminds us that he only knows true happiness when he is alone.On to the week ending yesterday!
There are worst things than hot adolescents in this sinful world :)
Heba wrote: "What""Burst my ballon" is a Spanish phrase literally translated into English,meaning that you had high hopes about something and suddenly someone comes along and tell you it´s not to be so.
btw. i´m argentine
Patricia wrote: "Heba wrote: "What""Burst my ballon" is a Spanish phrase literally translated into English,meaning that you had high hopes about something and suddenly someone comes along and tell you it´s not to..."
LOL...English = Burst my bubble
Valerie wrote: "Oh, I understand why it's being done. I have a PhD in Literature, so, trust me, I've encountered plenty of unlikeable characters. What I find distressing is the fact that no one else remarked upon it, but went on and on about how much they love the narrator. I think sometimes the best narrators are the ones that make us cringe, I just think it's important to read critically. Expressing dislike over something doesn't mean I don't still love it...."I complained a little about the Narrator in the March 24th thread in connection with his treatment of Gilberte and I agree that as the book goes on he does not really get any better in this regard. When I look at the characters he spends time with I think that if I were in the situation I wouldn't really find them congenial at all, both considering their outward manners and their interior opinions. I already feel that way about current-day celebrities who share these traits.
Valerie wrote: "Oh, I understand why it's being done. I have a PhD in Literature, so, trust me, I've encountered plenty of unlikeable characters. What I find distressing is the fact that no one else remarked upon ..."I spoke of Odette's limited options...I am sorry that I cannot recall the date of that thread as I write this. Madame X posted quite prolifically about her objections and concerns.
I also found the Narrator's equation of obsession with love quite disturbing (both with Swann & Odette and the Narrator & Gilberte)...and posted this. Having noted that I think it's probably true that even the most disturbing obsessions may be confused with love by the one obsessed.
But then Proust turns it all on its ear with Volume II...when we learn more of Odette.
I did not object to his thoughts about girls he encounters because they are thoughts...not acted upon. The window into an adolescent boy's thoughts actually seemed honest...even if distressing if played out.
The obsessions I mentioned were played out.
Ce Ce wrote: ".I did not object to his thoughts about girls he encounters because they are thoughts...not acted upon. The window into an adolescent boy's thoughts actually seemed honest...."I understood it in this light.
This is the way I saw it too. Swann and the Narrator went to the end of, and were consumed by, their obsession, but here we are still only dealing with an adolescent's fantasies and thoughts. I say, "here", although, the narrator seems to be planting a little seed when he says, " in the craze for amusement Albertine might be said to echo something of the old original Gilberte, that is because a certain similarity exists, .... due to the fixity of our own temperament.." Maybe we should brace ourselves for another ride!
Jocelyne wrote: "...the narrator seems to be planting a little seed when he says, " in the craze for amusement Albertine might be said to echo something of the old original Gilberte, that is because a certain similarity exists, .... due to the fixity of our own temperament.." Maybe we should brace ourselves for another ride! "LOL...I am fully braced to be disturbed, annoyed and impatient repeatedly. The 2nd obsessive/love episode was fair warning...echoing so much of the 1st.
Captive? I guess I'll just have to navigate as things unfold. Said with a bit of trepidation.
Jocelyne wrote: "This is the way I saw it too. Swann and the Narrator went to the end of, and were consumed by, their obsession, but here we are still only dealing with an adolescent's fantasies and thoughts. I say...""...consumed by their obsession,..."
And keep returning to the source...the desperate need for his mother's goodnight kiss.
I think Proust is indeed 're-forming' the religious teaching he must have experienced as a young child, possibly at a religious run private primary school. In spite of France's separation of church and state, there are still private religious run schools and hospitals all over France.
I was very struck by the way he used Easter and resurrection/renewal themes in Du Côté de chez Swann -I built my review of the book around that. There are many other biblical references. I regret not making a list at the beginning.