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message 1: by Kim (new)

Kim Another modern take on Sherlock Holmes. This time set in NY with Lucy Liu in the role of Watson. It wasn't too bad. I think I'll continue watching it. Just so glad they didn't make Sherlock American.


message 2: by Naiya (new)

Naiya | 23 comments I wasn't sure how I felt about it and I can't quite separate how much of my impressions are colored by me automatically comparing Elementary to Sherlock (which I love with a passion). I'm gonna give myself a few more episodes to let my impressions settle out.

I wasn't a fan of Miller's character, but I did enjoy how Liu played a Watson and that dynamic. And full agreement on making Sherlock British. I'm v curious about his family dynamic too.

tl;dr I'm cautiously intrigued.


message 3: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 894 comments Kim wrote: "Another modern take on Sherlock Holmes. This time set in NY with Lucy Liu in the role of Watson. It wasn't too bad. I think I'll continue watching it. Just so glad they didn't make Sherlock American."

I'm afraid to watch this as I love Sherlock. This seems like a blatant rip-off to me, but I can't say for sure as I haven't watched it yet. Maybe I'll wait to catch it via Netflix.


message 4: by Michael (new)

Michael (knowledgelost) It really wasn't the same, but I think I'll keep watching it


message 5: by Catherine (new)

Catherine (catjackson) To quote Canary, "I'm cautiously intrigued." I'd like to see how the relationship between the two main characters plays out. I don't mind that it's a blatant rip-off of Sherlock. In fact, I'm sort of glad we don't have another show that is trying to do Sherlock Holmes straight from the books. These variations can be good and give us another way to look at the originals.


message 6: by Naiya (new)

Naiya | 23 comments Catherine wrote: "I don't mind that it's a blatant rip-off of Sherlock. In fact, I'm sort ..."

Agree! More Sherlock Holmes is better than no Sherlock Holmes.


message 7: by Jackie (new)

Jackie (thelastwolf) I like Lucy Lui and I wanted to like Elementary but it didn't cut it for me. I already have Sherlock, and the writing is much better there. I don't have the time for redundant shows and I have to be critical in my choices...otherwise I'd never leave the couch, lol I want unique, something different and this just isn't it. I've already dropped Elementary off the DVR.


message 8: by Patgolfneb (new)

Patgolfneb | 25 comments They did try to negotiate for the right to make an American version of elementary, but couldn't reach an agreement. Might be partly why Watson is a woman.


message 9: by Evilynn (new)

Evilynn | 332 comments For me Sherlock > Elementary, but that doesn't really say much, because Sherlock is fan-frikkin-tastic. I thought the Elementary pilot was okay, Jonny Lee Miller is almost always good, and I really liked Lucy Liu too. However, I'm not sure I need yet another procedural in my life, especially not if it won't have much of a tie in to the Sherlock canon as a whole.


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) | 2073 comments Finally got around to watching this last night. Not really sure what I think of it - it didn't wow me, but I didn't hate it, either.

That said, I have a hard time really thinking of it as a Holmes thing. I think part of that is because of the setting. The Holmes stories are more than just the ratiocination, or even the sociopathy of the character. I think that it's Britishness is part of its totality, and placing it in American takes something away from it.

Sort of the same as if they ever went with an American Doctor. It just wouldn't feel right.

Or maybe I just didn't feel the character come across. There was nothing about it that screamed Holmes to me in such a way that it couldn't be any of the many other characters that are based, more or less, on Holmes - like the Mentalist or one of those shows.

(The character actually came across, to me, as a weird blending of Tennant's Tenth Doctor, with a fair bit of Gregory House thrown in. Of course, House is based on Holmes, too, so there's that... )

Also, I was sort of annoyed with the father aspect. I don't know why, really. I mean, I'm not a purist, really... but that particular bit bothered me. I would've preferred if it was Mycroft, to be honest.

Anyway -

I'll give it another few episodes before I really decide one way or the other... but my ultimate impression was "It's not bad, but it's not Holmes."


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) | 2073 comments Thought some of y'all might get a giggle from this:




message 12: by Steven Lyle (new)

Steven Lyle Jordan (StevenLyleJordan) | 67 comments I've been enjoying Elementary (I don't watch Sherlock, having seen and read enough traditional SH material over the decades). Besides the excellent acting, the alternate universe element fascinates me, too: Imagine a world that never had an original Sherlock Holmes; would it really be exactly the same as our world, or shouldn't there be something else about the Elementary world that's different? And will the writers ever go there? (Probably not... too much work.)

Making Watson both a female and a "sober companion" creates a fresh dynamic between the her and Holmes that I appreciate, putting them on more of an even footing... though it's taken most of the first season for them to fully understand that footing. Now they are beginning to work as actual partners, instead of the constant "I'm superior" wrestling match they previously engaged in at every moment.


message 13: by Daniel (new)

Daniel (redshirt42) Steven,
You refer to Sherlock as "traditional SH material" - while the plots of the episodes are inspired by the original fiction, there are many differences, particularly since the story is set in the modern day. Sherlock is set in a world in which there was no "original" Sherlock Holmes just as Elementary is. Is there something I'm missing?


message 14: by Stan (new)

Stan (lendondain) | 168 comments I haven't seen Sherlock, so I can't make a comparison. I will say that I've been enjoying Elementary quite a bit.


message 15: by Marcel (new)

Marcel Du Plessis | 4 comments I've watched both Sherlock and Elementary. I must say that I really really dislike the latter. The so-called cases are highly contrived and this Holmes just isn't Holmes. It feels like abad rip-off!

I truly prefer Sherlock. It is the best modern adaptation of Sir Conan Doyle's work. It respects the source material and - most importantly - the characters. Combine this with an exciting cinematic style and two of the best actors in the business and you have a winner!


message 16: by Evilynn (new)

Evilynn | 332 comments As an addendum to my earlier post, I've happily been watching Elementary all season. It's not as good as Sherlock, and the mysteries are a little too easy to unravel, but I still like JLM and Liu and as far as US procedurals go it's probably my favourite.


message 17: by Stan (new)

Stan (lendondain) | 168 comments Marcel wrote: "I've watched both Sherlock and Elementary. I must say that I really really dislike the latter. The so-called cases are highly contrived and this Holmes just isn't Holmes. It feels like abad rip-off..."

I never read any of Doyle's work, and I have nothing invested in the Sherlock Holmes character. So, for me, it's not important that a show respect the source material. I couldn't care less about how easy the cases are to solve. Mysteries aren't really my thing. I simply like the interaction between Holmes, Watson, and the police captain on Elementary.

Plus, Lucy Liu could give an hour long soliloquy to a rock every week, and I'd watch it. She is hot!


message 18: by Naiya (last edited Feb 19, 2013 07:09AM) (new)

Naiya | 23 comments It sounds like there are two camps of thought here - those of us who've seen both Sherlock and Elementary (and end up preferring Sherlock), and those who've only seen one of the shows (and like it).

Has anyone watched both and prefers Elementary?


message 19: by Marcel (new)

Marcel Du Plessis | 4 comments Sherlock Holmes is the quintessential detective. Everyone has heard of him - including those who haven't even heard of his creator. He is the master of deduction. How can you watch anything about Holmes, if you don't like mysteries or whodunits? Holmes is his cases, without the good old 'orrible murder and a complex puzzle to boot, there is little point to the whole thing.

Anyone who has read a book and the watches resulting the movie appreciates a nod to the source material. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was a literary genius, at least television adaptations can have respect enough for his work not to water it down.

I'm sorry, I really tried to like it, but Elementary seems like the Happy Meal version.


message 20: by Stan (new)

Stan (lendondain) | 168 comments Sorry, Marcel, I like characters, not contrived plot devices. Holmes is more than his cases. At least, Elementary is proving that he can be, anyway.


message 21: by Marcel (last edited Feb 19, 2013 07:50AM) (new)

Marcel Du Plessis | 4 comments Fair enough. Let's acknowledge our differences of opinion. But, give Sherlock a look


message 22: by Marcel (new)

Marcel Du Plessis | 4 comments Colleen wrote: "Thought some of y'all might get a giggle from this:

"


Love it!


message 23: by Jain (new)

Jain | 70 comments Naiya wrote: "Has anyone watched both and prefers Elementary?"

*raises hand*

I do enjoy both shows, and in praise of Sherlock I'll say that it's stylistically very impressive, that it's sometimes quite clever (though not as often as its writers believe it to be, I'm afraid), and that the acting is top-notch.

By contrast, Elementary's style is unremarkable; it has an annoying tendency to cast moderately famous actors in the bigger guest parts, which makes it easy to spot the murderer, but is otherwise fairly smart; and its acting is also top-notch.

In the end, though, I care more about characterization than about style, and I greatly prefer the characterizations in Elementary. I've been a fan of Sherlock Holmes the character since I was a kid; Holmes in ACD's stories is weird and out of step with society, but he can also be kind. I think Miller's Sherlock is more faithful to the original character's complexities, while Cumberbatch's Sherlock is all flash and no substance.

Watson is great in both adaptations--though I'll admit to a slight preference for Liu's Watson based on the fact that she's Lucy Liu! everything she does is amazing!--but I prefer the Holmes-Watson developing partnership in Elementary over the more unequal relationship in Sherlock.

By the same token, I like Elementary!Sherlock's interactions with the NYPD more than Sherlock!Sherlock's interactions with Scotland Yard. In the former, Sherlock is arrogant and self-assured of his own brilliance but also recognizes that police officers such as Gregson and Bell are capable of making valuable contributions. In the latter, Sherlock seems to believe that the only purpose the police (with the occasional exception of Lestrade) serve is to get in his way.


message 24: by Julia (last edited Feb 23, 2013 05:35PM) (new)

Julia | 908 comments You know what, I prefer Elementary because it's on now.

I get tired of British tv's eight episode season. Especially when American tv, PBS not BBC, runs it in two hour blocks instead of one hour, so it only runs for a month, while I wait and wait and wait for it...

Lucy Liu is fun, and I like their more equal modern relationship, but hello, Sherlock has a young Bilbo!


message 25: by Steven Lyle (new)

Steven Lyle Jordan (StevenLyleJordan) | 67 comments Daniel,
No, not missing anything. As I said, I haven't watched Sherlock, but I understood that Holmes and Watson were the traditional characters in a modern setting. I was more interested in the new and nontraditional character treatment of Elementary, so I watched that.


Snarktastic Sonja (SnowNSew) | 33 comments I have found, in a very unreliable poll sample, that those who *love* SACD's Sherlock do not actually care for Elementary. Those who are less familiar are more likely to enjoy the CBS' take.

I love Elementary. But, I am only peripherally familiar with the work of SACD. I read a couple of his books way back in the day and enjoyed them, but that is about it. It helps me to remember that this is NOT Doyle's Sherlock but only an adaptation - a re-thinking if you will. It is not intended to be the same thing. It might help to think of it as an alternative dimension. :)

My family has compared this series frequently with
Battlestar Galactica. People who loved the original series are less likely to enjoy the latest incarnation.


message 27: by Steven Lyle (new)

Steven Lyle Jordan (StevenLyleJordan) | 67 comments Sonja wrote: "I have found, in a very unreliable poll sample, that those who *love* SACD's Sherlock do not actually care for Elementary. Those who are less familiar are more likely to enjoy the CBS' take."

Not surprising... it's a common reaction to most remade content by someone who loved the first-encountered content. Happens in music, too. And ask a Doctor Who fan.


message 28: by Naiya (new)

Naiya | 23 comments Steven wrote: "Sonja wrote: "I have found, in a very unreliable poll sample, that those who *love* SACD's Sherlock do not actually care for Elementary. Those who are less familiar are more likely to enjoy the CBS..."

Doesn't always hold out. I couldn't stand Tennant but love Matt Smith.


message 29: by Steven Lyle (new)

Steven Lyle Jordan (StevenLyleJordan) | 67 comments Naiya wrote: "Doesn't always hold out. I couldn't stand Tennant but love Matt Smith. "

I never said it was an absolute rule. ;)

But it's a very common reaction: If you experience something, and you like it, that version is burned into your memory as a pleasurable experience. Henceforward, you automatically compare another version of that experience to the one you first experienced. The new one is very often found lacking, simply because it's not more like the one you first experienced and liked. It's a purely subjective action, but most people have felt it at some point when evaluating two versions of a song, or a portrait, or a movie or TV show, etc.

I'm sure some (though not all) of the preferences expressed about different versions of Sherlock Holmes productions are influenced by this subjective effect.


message 30: by Naiya (last edited Mar 06, 2013 09:56AM) (new)

Naiya | 23 comments Steven wrote: "Naiya wrote: "Doesn't always hold out. I couldn't stand Tennant but love Matt Smith. "

I never said it was an absolute rule. ;)

But it's a very common reaction: If you experience something, and..."


I won't argue that this must be your experience, but I'm definitely not even anywhere close to agreeing that this is a common reaction that we can generalize about in the general population (unless you have studies on the phenomena?). When I think of hearing new songs/remixes of some of my favorite tunes, a lot of the time, I love the new ones as much or even more than the old. I added remake onto my mp3 player yesterday, speak of the devil.

And honestly, according to this logic, I shouldn't like any of the Sherlock Holmes, having first read the books and seen the Russian version of the movie(and loved it). :shrug:

Saying "oh you just don't like this Holmes because you saw the other one first" devalues a person's opinion, which, I like to think, has some real basis in something beyond the order in which one watches shows.

Sure, I'm sure some will be biased by the order in which they're exposed to something, but it ought not even be a rule.


message 31: by Shomeret (new)

Shomeret | 304 comments Re imprinting on what you saw first--I shouldn't like any Sherlock Holmes at all either because I read some Arthur Conan Doyle stories first and they bored me. The first Holmes novel that interested me was The Seven Percent Solution. I also fell in love with Laurie R. King's Mary Russell series and with Elementary.


message 32: by Steven Lyle (last edited Mar 12, 2013 11:40AM) (new)

Steven Lyle Jordan (StevenLyleJordan) | 67 comments Naiya wrote: "I won't argue that this must be your experience, but I'm definitely not even anywhere close to agreeing that this is a common reaction that we can generalize about in the general population (unless you have studies on the phenomena?)."

No, just personal experience watching other people and their reactions to new vs old music, movies and TV shows over the last 50 years of my life. Y'know... observation. But if you want documentation, then I withdraw the statement.


message 33: by Julia (last edited Mar 12, 2013 11:08AM) (new)

Julia | 908 comments Steven wrote: But it's a very common reaction: If you experience something, and you like it, that version is burned into your memory as a pleasurable experience.

Inexplicably, I never watched Doctor Who until the New Who, #9 and Eccleston and I've seen precious few Old Who. And I'm such a Whovian now, that among other merchandise, I have the Think Geek shirt "You'll never forget your first Doctor."
Eccleston isn't my favorite, though some episodes are brilliant. Smith I like just fine, bowties are cool. But it's Tennant who is my Doctor.

To bring this back to the subject of this topic I like the short stories, Basil Rathbone, Cumberbatch, Robert Downey, Jr., and Jonny Lee Miller. I mean to read the Laurie King novels and I loved The Final Solution by Michael Chabon.


message 34: by Bruce (new)

Bruce (BruceArrington) Tom Baker was my absolute favorite of the series, so if you get a chance to go back in time (1974-1981) and see him, he is hilarious and keeps entertaining going all the time. My dad used to watch him too, and that's how I got hooked. Since then, however, I've never been able to connect with the others. According to my sources, he starred in over 170 episodes!


message 35: by Paul (new)

Paul (brocklaser) | 18 comments As usual us in the UK are a little behind but I am really enjoying elementary.


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The Final Solution (other topics)

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Michael Chabon (other topics)