SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Group Reads Discussions 2009
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Watchmen -- Which Character Did You Like Best? Which did you like the least?
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Honestly, I can almost answer Rorshach for both. His sense of morality is so tuned. His sense of justice, however, leaves quite a bit to be desired. If I can't choose him for both, my favorite would be Dr. Manhatten. He never asked for his "powers", seems to be a gentle, loving man, unable to truly share those feelings anymore. He doesn't want to be a hero, and yet, ironically, he is the only "mask" unable to take his off. He has lost his anonymity. I think of all the characters, he misses it the most.
I would, without hesitation, say that my favorite character is Rorschach. He has a certain way about him, a certain adamant conviction in the concepts of right and wrong that I truly admire. There are no shades of gray with him. Also, the idea that he isn't some masked superhero, he's a masked human, really appeals to me for some reason. I just love the guy.My least favorite would probably be Dr. Manhattan. He just frustrates me.
Rorshach is the most interesting to me, so I would probably put him at the top of those that I like. The Comedian (even in limited appearance) was my least favorite.
I honestly have to say Rorshach. I know it's the answer most people give, but he's such a fascinating character. He's both reprehensible and strangely endearing. My least favorite would have to be Ozymandias, simply because I find him even more horrific a personality than Rorshach.
I think I mentioned in another thread that my favorite character is Rorschach, easily. My least favorite is Ozymandias.
My favorite character was easily Rorshach. I'm always a sucker for a flawed, or mentally unstable, hero. My least favorite character was Laurie, she was so tedious.
That's interesting Kristjan because The Comedian is my favorite because I think he was the most honest. He understood best the world and his role in it. Granted, that didn't stop him from being a cynical bastard.I agree Skip, Laurie was beyond tedious. It makes me think that Moore has a thing against women as all the female characters were so 2D (compared to the men).
Although, I least liked Night Owl. Batman, you are not!
Favorite by far is Rorshach. Least favorite would be Dr. Manhattan....i just didn't like how uncaring he was towards humanity...and the Mars thing was a stretch considering 99% of the heroes were regular, every day mortals.
I think that John hit the nail on the head about Rorschach. We are shown right from the first page that he is mad in a rather horrible way, but for some reason I still want to like him - he *is* endearing. It just occurred to me that he is like the main character of the Black Freighter story. Both have simple and sometimes good intentions, but are cursed to see the world as a kind of a Hell, and act in a desperate fashion as a result. Rorschach is actually more like a feral child, rather than a damaged man.Ozymandias I liked the least, probably because he is portrayed as being extremely shallow, and is actually rather unsophisticated. I get the feeling that Moore was making a point or joke by having "the smartest man in the world" be a bit ridiculous, even when he thinks that he's doing something clever.
I loved Watchmen, but I really didn't like any of the characters. I felt either pity or disgust for all of them.
Rorshach is by far my favorite because of his insanity and how he reflects on the type of person that would be driven to put on a mask and go fight crime and what that could eventually do to your psyche. Laurie is so underdeveloped, I never really bought into her story or her character.
Sarah Pi wrote: "I loved Watchmen, but I really didn't like any of the characters. I felt either pity or disgust for all of them. "I agree with you to an extent. If I had to pick a favorite, I think I'd chose Dr. Manhattan. Due to his super powers, he is truly a unique character. I think his struggles in relationships and in dealing with humanity are very interesting.
Laurie and Dan are just too mundane - or underdeveloped, depending on how you look at it.
Rorschach is perhaps the most interesting but I don't like him. His efforts to see the world in black and white, along with his conservative mindset, make me dislike him. At times I wanted to like him, and I kept hoping to like him as the story progressed (he is 'endearing', as someone says above) but in the end I couldn't.
I found Ozymandias interesting because of the Percy Bysshe Shelley poem of the same name. It's one of the few poems that I remember from high school.
Rorschach is the most interesting by far, but very few of them are really likable. Of them all, I'd have to say Laurie and Dan, the others have powers or attributes that make them far from likable, however interesting they may be. Ozymandias is by far the worst of the bunch, ready for the Black Ship if anyone is.
Marc -- I like that observation "ready for the Black Ship if anyone is". That really reinforces why the whole pirate story was in there.
That's interesting that you said that. I thought it was Rorshach (who had figured out the black ship) --and that's why he was willing to let Dr. M kill him. He was out trying to save the world and ended up a part of the thing that was, in his opinion, destroying it. He had become a part of what he despised.
Also, that's why the Black Ship was always printed with the newspaper stand where we find out...SPOILER....that's where he bought his newspaper.
It's the whole point of the story, as far as I can tell, that Ozymandias is doing something heinous and terrible, regardless of the good intentions he started out with. I was wondering why Rorschach left without trying to kill Ozymandias, he was the one person in the room who could have done it and not cared about the consequences. He wasn't in 'moral checkmate', yet he lets himself get killed by Dr. Manhattan instead.
It wasn't that Ozzy was "good" and then went too far and became "bad". The end game was always his goal. But for Rorshach, he thought he was on this moral quest to save the world from the evil that he perceived, and despite his methods, he felt he was making a dent. Then, when he thinks that he has found who the wizard is behind the madness (does anyone else find it interesting that the man behind the curtain also has the name of "Oz") he finds out it's one of "them"--the good guys. He then realizes that everything that he was fighting for (like the dude trying to save his hometown in the Black Ship), he was actually HELPING Ozzy destroy. He knew that the powers that be would never allow him to speak out and rather than continue the charade by keeping silent, he "allows" Dr. M to kill him. I thought that was probably the most poetic part of Rorshach, even though I was disappointed by him in the end.
It has to be Rorshach for me. He really touches my sense of right over all. Like he says, "Even in the face of armageddon, Never Compromise."I don't think it was that Rorshach "let" Manhattan kill him, it was a sign of his resolve. He knew there were two options. 1) To cave, and go along with them. To compromise. 2) To stay true to what he believed to the end. Even if it meant his death.
I couldn't have seen Rorshach doing anything else than what he did. He knew Manhattan wouldn't hesitate to kill him, and he was right. But he still wouldn't compromise. I think that shows character.
Least favorite is probably The Comedian. Not because I disliked him, but I just wanted to punch his teeth out.
The only thing that surprised me about Rorschach's death was that he made less of an effort to kill Ozymandias, even though he was severely out-classed. The only weak point on Veidt's argument was hte claim that none of them would kill him and risk investigation. Rorschach wouldn't have cared about that. Dr. Manhattan wouldn't want the world told, but I don't know that he would have cared if Veidt was killed. It just seemed a little off.
You're right, Manhattan wouldn't have cared if Veidt died or not, he doesn't care about anyone, really, one way or the other. But that is also why he didn't assist Rorschach in killing him. He just didn't care.As for Rorschach not trying harder, he knows something futile when he sees it. He may be unbalanced, but he isn't stupid. And he probably thought that Veidt wouldn't hesitate to kill him either if he really had to, so he must have figured the most efficient and effective course would be to blow the lid on the whole thing.
Okay, I had already admitted to Osterman/ Dr. Manahatten being my favorite. After seeing the movie (twice, I am a nerd!) I just want to re-iterate. He is my favorite! Billy Cruddup was excellent. The way he explains the "miracle" to Laurie, on Mars, was so incredibly romantic. It did not come across that way in the comic. At least not to me!
Wow, this is perhaps the one time where I will join the majority and say......Rorschach. Being the kind of person who is always very black/white, objective, logical, always wanting to make sure the right thing is done no matter what, etc etc....he is definitely who I would have been if I were one of the Watchmen.
Kandice wrote: "The way he explains the "miracle" to Laurie, on Mars, was so incredibly romantic. It did not come across that way in the comic. At least not to me!"I agree. And he's not really a romantic, but that moment was. He wasn't my favorite in the book, but it worked better in the movie for me.
My favourite is The Comedian. If Rorschach is black and white, The Comedian is completely gray, muddied, embracing of the complexities of being human and being part of humanity. He remains active for what seem to be purely selfish reasons by recognizing the joke at the core of civilization. I love that. Even if he is a bastard. My least favourite is a twofer: Laurie and Drieberg. They were the dilettantes. The representatives of willful ignorance and inactivity.
But regardless of my personal feelings about the characters, I thought every character was perfectly placed in the book, from heroes like Ozymandias to supporting players like Dr. Malcolm. They may not have been personally likable for me, but they all served their literary purpose.
Bronwyn wrote: "Kandice wrote: "The way he explains the "miracle" to Laurie, on Mars, was so incredibly romantic. It did not come across that way in the comic. At least not to me!"I agree. And he's not really..."
But it doesn't ring true to me, since he experiences time so differently. The epiphany should have affected him all throughout his timeline.
I wish they hadn't made him shout in the TV studio. I think it's much more chilling (and visually interesting) in the book where he just blinks them all out of the room.
Sarah Pi, he can see his own future and past simultaneously, bit not others, so he wouldn't have known until she "remembered" when he was helping her. I know, it's kind of like a Star Trek time paradox kind of thing, but I still feel it was romantic. And believable! But maybe I just really wanted it to be.I agree with your thoughts on the yelling in the studio. The book version was much more satisfying.
Brad wrote: "My favourite is The Comedian. If Rorschach is black and white, The Comedian is completely gray, muddied, embracing of the complexities of being human and being part of humanity. He remains active f..."Brad! I was thinking I was the lone Comedian fan. You nailed it on the reasons why I liked him best.
We're in the minority, but at least we're not alone, Meghan ;)
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And on the other side, which of the characters did you like the least?