Baker Street Irregulars discussion
Holmes & Watson in Current Media
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CBS's Elementary
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I was trying to put my finger on why I think "Elementary" is so much better - and it was a show I did not expect to like at all. I think that if you are thinking, "How can we update the stories in the Canon?" you get "Sherlock"; if you are thinking, "If Conan Doyle were writing the canon today, how would he create Holmes and his world" - I think you get "Elementary."I think there is one very basic, structural difference that also gives "Elementary" the edge: most of the tales in the canon are short stories and I think the "TV hour" format suits that better. I have not seen all of the "Sherlock" episodes, but the ones that I have seen seem to have a lot of "filler."
And then there is the "who is the better modern Sherlock". For me, it's Miller.
Season three has been pretty good so far. I was at first, not so sure about Kitty, but I grew to like her over the run of the episodes she was in. Now that her part of the story seems to be over for now, its looking like Watson is going to be back in the spot light a lot. The episode last night, Hemlock, was good and that ending was surprising. I'm not sure if anyone has seen this posted here on goodreads, but there is going to be a tie-in book based around Elementary called, Elementary: The Ghost Line by, Adam Christopher. The story seems interesting.
Here is the link to it here on goodreads https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
Overall I think the response to season 3 has been negative. I thought the Kitty story arc was not persuasive and the writing was not up to the standard of the better episodes of season 1 and 2.The 2/5 show was, IMHO, the best show this season, though the bump in the coffee shop, and what followed was way too predictable. Still, it got back to the core Holmes and Watson relationship that was the strong point of the show and, not coincidentally, the underpinning of the Canon.
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Rohit wrote: "Not many fans of elementary around here i guess?"I watch it when I get a chance and believe that it is a very good show. I was surprised that I began to like it much better than Sherlock.
Massive Elementary fan . I'm still tickled over in a lot of newer Sherlock texts, Inspector Tobias Gregson is mentioned. Miller has that classic Sherlockness about him, and very much a modern version of him. Benedict Chumberbatch in my eyes is too pretty to be Sherlock.
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Rohit wrote: "September is the month when Elementary usually airs. It's October now, still no signs of 6th series. Anyone has any news or any idea when the next series is starting. Can't wait for it, feeling wor..."I think they got a 13 episode order that will start airing in January. Not sure if CBS has decided to continue with Sunday or move it back to Thursday.
Please, try to get as many people watch Elementary as possible. If the rating goes up, especially the younger demographics, then CBS will add more episodes, possibly another season too.Btw, Natalie Dormer will be joining the cast for season 6.
Janine wrote: "Massive Elementary fan . I'm still tickled over in a lot of newer Sherlock texts, Inspector Tobias Gregson is mentioned. Miller has that classic Sherlockness about him, and very much a modern versi..."What?Cumberbatch pretty? Actually, he's known for having strange features and rather a weird looking face. On the other hand, Danny Boyle who directed the National Theatre production of Frankensteine with Jonny Lee Miller and Cumverbatch both acting as the creature and prof. Frankensteine, said JLM was too handsome to make him into the creature. So there!
Mitra wrote: "Janine wrote: "Massive Elementary fan . I'm still tickled over in a lot of newer Sherlock texts, Inspector Tobias Gregson is mentioned. Miller has that classic Sherlockness about him, and very much..."You say Cumberbatch is "known for having strange features and a rather weird looking face." Here is Watson's description of Holmes from A Study in Scarlet " In height he was rather over six feet, and so excessively lean that he seemed to be considerably taller. His eyes were sharp and piercing, save during those intervals of torpor to which I have alluded; and his thin, hawk-like nose ...His chin, too, had the prominence and squareness.... His hands were invariably blotted with ink and stained with chemicals" Watson doesn't describe Holmes as extremely handsome and while Cumberbatch doesn't look weird to me, his features seem to fit the Holmes character ,
In truth, Sidney Paget used his brother as a model for the original strand magazine illustrations and Conan Doyle felt he was too handsome.
Mitra wrote: "Janine wrote: "Massive Elementary fan . I'm still tickled over in a lot of newer Sherlock texts, Inspector Tobias Gregson is mentioned. Miller has that classic Sherlockness about him, and very much..."The National Theatre production was filmed twice with each actor (Miller and Cumberbatch) in each role (Frankenstein and The Monster) I saw both versions. I thought that both actors did a very good job as Frankenstein, but Miller's take on The Monster was far above Cumberbatch's.
Huh. I've seen both productions multiple times, and I thought BC was better in both roles.
The above article puts forward the arguments comparing Elementary with the BBC Sherlock.
Lately, even British critics gave bad reviews of the BBC Sherlock, saying that it had turned into a cheap version of James Bond
After you read this article,I'd like to know if anyone agrees with it.http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/27/5-years...
Mitra wrote: "After you read this article,I'd like to know if anyone agrees with it.http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/27/5-years..."
Mostly I agree. Although in the first seasons I watched Sherlock and it actually seemed a parody of Doyle. (the TV special with Mycroft a hideous glutton was awful ) The writer should add that Sherlock goes overboard in trying to get laughs while Elementary is serious. The tone makes Elementary superior.
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https://www.christianpost.com/news/el...
Slightly concerned with the bump up from 13 to 21 episodes. Is CBS just giving the writers room to wrap up the series?
The season premiere date is set for April 30, a new night, Monday 10 PM.As of this week, they were still filming, shooting a couple days in Williamsburg (Brooklyn)
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Elementary was always about more no. of episodes as opposed to 'Sherlock'. I was surprised why they initially had just 13 episodes this season when their all previous seasons had 24 episodes.
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http://tvline.com/2018/01/11/elementa...
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Well, here it is 2018 and I'm so behind the times. Since 1999, I have not had antenna or cable TV so obviously, I haven't had opportunity to watch "Sherlock" or "Elementary" on their respective networks. Shortly after BBC Sherlock series began, I began streaming Netflix and watched as soon as episodes became available. That or borrow DVDs from my local library. Recently, I began streaming hulu and can (binge)-watch Elementary.I enjoy Jonny Lee Miller's portrayal of Holmes. It seems he is acting out Holmes' underlying sociopath tendencies well. I notice, however, that he doesn't steeple his hands at all. Instead, he rests his closed fists on his knees when he's deep in thought or anxious about something. He's frenetic and kinetic at times, which is indicative of someone who has a genius like Sherlock's. That aspect of his personality is also in tune with someone who's an addict--even one in recovery. As his time as a sober addict grows longer, he appears to calm down. This is a realistic portrayal and I can attest to this, having recovering addicts in my life as friends and family. I suppose more than the actual stories, I notice the acting. Having been involved in theater and with a film/television degree, these are aspects I key in on first. I especially appreciate the fact that Holmes dwells in a brownstone. It's more spacious than any living quarters I've yet to see him live in, but the organized clutter is typical Holmes.
I enjoy the fact that many of the episode titles and plots hearken to actual Doyle stories. For instance the orange Pipz and the episode with the horse, Silver Blaze. Those are also tidbits I appreciate about Elementary. The occasional hidden knowledge of Holmes from the canon offers up something special for longtime fans. I'm certainly not as familiar as some in this group with everything Sherlock, especially the pastiches, but the inclusion of such variety is fun, in my opinion.
I niggled at Watson's portrayal as a woman. I suppose I'm a little bit of a purist for as much as I do know about the original Holmes premise. The character seems to be more than what Watson should be. By that I mean I've always considered Watson to be a helper and sounding board. Watson always has been the one to steady Holmes for sure, but he did it in a more companionable way. This Watson has a sort of control over Holmes, being first his sobriety companion and, later, his almost-equal.
The writers and creators can do whatever they like; viewers are free to form opinions. These are mine. Naturally, I have favorite episodes that I've liked better than others. But, overall, I like "Elementary" as much as "Sherlock." Each series introduces another character for our study. One that I find especially fun is the math geek. He's truly geeky and smart, and like most of the math/science "geniuses" I know (and I do know some), he's a little off in the areas of social constructs. Just as Sherlock is. It's fitting that the few Irregulars we've seen so far have quirks, and while their quirks are much different than Sherlock's, nevertheless, they're in place.
My mind always wanders back to Rathbone and Bruce. Since they're my first introduction to visual Holmes and Watson, they will always be my favorites. My sister and I own several of the old B&W shows for perusal when we get that 'itch.' I suppose it also has something to with my age. I grew up with B&W in an era with no need for the use of blood and violence. It was naturally suggested, so we got the idea. Not that the blood bothers me. Just making a point.
I'm getting sort of long-winded here, so I'll wrap this up. In closing, I'd like to say that Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law, Cumberbatch and Freeman, Ian McKellen, and the stars of Elementary all give some sort of homage to the characters. I try to appreciate all of that, for what they are trying to portray according to a writer's or director's vision. Whether the series/film is presented in the Victorian era or in the present, it's still Sherlock and I'm glad someone is as fascinated with the character as we are. He's a literary fellow we need to keep alive. In our modern world, film and TV seem to be the proper mediums by which people are introduced to Doyle's creations. Perhaps, having watched the shows/films, they'll be eager to read the canon and say, "Ah, dear friends, I never would have deduced that a world such as this could exist!"
What do you think of Cumberbatch having the female Asian Watson of Elementary and Elementary's Holmes having the Sherlock male Watson (Freedman)?
Which would Conan Doyle prefer? Keeping in mind that he was a very liberal guy, I think he'd likely prefer Elementary with a female Watson.One thing Elementary has over other Holmes versions, is that the police and Watson are not idiots. Holmes is gifted, but others have some intelligence in Elementary.
Doyle's Holmes seems to say for Holmes to be brilliant, the police and the majority of the world must be dumb. Elementary sends message that around intelligent people the brilliant Holmes stands out as valuable part of law enforcement.At first I protested Elementary and female Watson, and being in modern America, but I grew to appreciate it's realism. More realistic Holmes.
When BBC's Sherlock got too silly and tried hard to get a laugh every second, I quit watching.
Both Sherlocks have intense personalities, and both are somewhat light on social skills. Also, the "Elementary" Holmes dresses pretty much as I do, which doesn't do him a lot of good socially.
There is also the New York City setting, which allows for different stories and a broader range of them. Don't look for a lot of Canonicity in either one.
Just enjoy. You have some catching up to do.