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[F2F Book Discussions] October 2012: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Moderator: DC
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I have been rather amiss with the updates for the reading plan, but at this point we see Lydia's folly and Wickham's true character.Day 15: Spirits in high flutter (Book 3, Chapters 1-2)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Day 16: Most refreshing view (Book 3, Chapters 3-4)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Day 17: Serious consideration (Book 3, Chapters 5-7)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Quick discussion question: Why do you think Wickham would have chosen Lydia, of all women, to have eloped with? (Yes, the trivia below answers this a bit, but the Bennets are not the richest family.) Do you think they'd make a truly happy couple?
Trivia: If a girl eloped and was married without a marriage settlement, any money that had been legally hers at the time of the marriage became the property of her husband without any safeguards on how he could use it. He could disappear the next day and the girl could be left penniless. A man who would talk a girl into eloping with him was not a gentleman according to the code of conduct of the time, because by eloping, he was ruining the girl’s reputation and, even more importantly, he was profiting financially by preying on her innocence and ignorance of the world.
Notice that George Wickham is only interested in single girls with money. Apart from the fact that a married woman's money would be so tied up through the marriage settlements that he wouldn’t be able to get his hands on it easily, if a married woman ran off with a lover her husband could sue him.
(Other discussion questions available in the FIRST POST.)
At this point, I'm going to have to personally admit that I'm seeing these 19th c marriage laws as very anti-woman. (Then again, the overall culture was very restricting and exact - "the accomplished woman" and all that.) No wonder that feminists then were starting to clamor for change.(And don't get me started about the class differences!)
Articles on wedding laws in the 1800s:
http://imow.org/economica/stories/vie...
http://www.umich.edu/~ece/student_pro...
[DC is AGIT]
On another note, haha, Darcy was such a charming host at Pemberly. I think that the Gardiners were flashing such knowing smiles at Lizzy when they saw Darcy-Lizzy together :DAnd Lydia is just... Ugh.
"Quick discussion question: Why do you think Wickham would have chosen Lydia, of all women, to have eloped with? (Yes, the trivia below answers this a bit, but the Bennets are not the richest family.) Do you think they'd make a truly happy couple?"Nope, they'd make each other miserable before long.
Maybe it's because it just happened that Lydia was flirting with him? But then, Lydia flirts with every guy in uniform. :D
DC wrote: "On another note, haha, Darcy was such a charming host at Pemberly. I think that the Gardiners were flashing such knowing smiles at Lizzy when they saw Darcy-Lizzy together :DAnd Lydia is just... ..."
I was thinking, maybe Mrs. Gardiner was just pretending to be tired during their walk around the gardens in Pemberley so that Darcy could walk beside Lizzy? :D
Hi Dante! You weren't able to pass by yesterday :o Eps 5&6 coming up next week - hope you make it then :DDante wrote: "Nope, they'd make each other miserable before long.
Maybe it's because it just happened that Lydia was flirting with him? But then, Lydia flirts with every guy in uniform. :D "
>>> The "nope" statement rather reminds me of Fitzgerald's The Beautiful and Damned :D
Also, well, yes, but she was flirting with him long before they got to Brighton, and even Elizabeth & Jane did note that they both didn't seem to have preference in each other before. And Mrs Bennet will later on note that (view spoiler) >_>
I personally don't get why Lydia o_O Is it because Lydia will be too busy flirting to notice his own flirting? Hmmm.
Dante wrote: "DC wrote: "On another note, haha, Darcy was such a charming host at Pemberly. I think that the Gardiners were flashing such knowing smiles at Lizzy when they saw Darcy-Lizzy together :D
And Lydia ..."
>>> AHA! As Aaron noted: conspirators! Hahaha!
.....Nakakainis, HAHAHA LOOK AT THAT SMUG FACE
DC: "Hi Dante! You weren't able to pass by yesterday :o Eps 5&6 coming up next week - hope you make it then :D"Hi DC! I wanted to join the chat and movie viewing but my wifey, baby, and I went to our parents' house and stayed late in the evening. But I'll join next week. :)
"The "nope" statement rather reminds me of Fitzgerald's The Beautiful and Damned :D"
I haven't read that. Is it good? :)
"Also, well, yes, but she was flirting with him long before they got to Brighton, and even Elizabeth & Jane did note that they both didn't seem to have preference in each other before. And Mrs Bennet will later on note that (view spoiler) >_>"
True hehehe...
"I personally don't get why Lydia o_O Is it because Lydia will be too busy flirting to notice his own flirting? Hmmm."
I also don't understand why it's her...
"AHA! As Aaron noted: conspirators! Hahaha!"
Hahaha! Yup, it's a conspiracy! I love the Gardiners. :D
Dante wrote: "I was thinking, maybe Mrs. Gardiner was just pretending to be tired during their walk around the gardens in Pemberley so that Darcy could walk beside Lizzy? :D "I was thinking the same thing! haha
Mrs. Gardiner was very sly.
There are elder people who are really perceptive, since they went through the trials of courtship themselves before. I think such were the Gardiners. If ever they did conspire to bring the two young lovers together, it was because they sensed the strong attraction between Lizzie and Darcy.
I would imagine though that Lydia inherited her traits from Mrs. Bennet, too blinded with the thoughts of marriage without examining the means as to which this will be acquired. Her thinking that a woman's achievement is the age at which one does marry. Geesh, at 16 I was still playing sipa and patintero and here she is proud that Lydia will be married at that age.
Louize wrote: "There are elder people who are really perceptive, since they went through the trials of courtship themselves before. I think such were the Gardiners. If ever they did conspire to bring the two youn..."I agree. Mrs. Gardiner was very perceptive, too, when she saw Wickham with Lizzy, although his character hasn't yet been exposed at that time.
Maybe it was simply apparent to the Gardiners that Darcy had affections for Lizzy (and vice versa) when they met at Pemberley.
Louize, haha, yes, I believe you're quite right! I have not thought of that angle myself :DIndeed, Dante! She immediately became my favorite character when she told Lizzy to be careful around Wickham :D
Ranee, welcome, btw! Haha! Yes, Mrs Bennet had, after all, quite declared her (Lydia) a favorite. In the book, Mrs Bennet is described as "weak-minded", and it is hinted that she was a beauty in her youth as well. I guess she is "reliving her second childhood" through Lydia? :)
DC wrote: "I guess she is "reliving her second childhood" through Lydia? :) "I believe it was also mentioned that Mrs. Bennet once aspired to be an officer's wife too. So, ganun na lang ang pagkunsinte n'ya sa ginagawa ni Lydia.
Louize wrote: "I believe it was also mentioned that Mrs. Bennet once aspired to be an officer's wife too. So, ganun na lang ang pagkunsinte n'ya sa ginagawa ni Lydia."Yes, true. I was waiting for Mr Bennet's reaction when Mrs Bennet noted that "she herself was once in love with an officer, and hadn't forgotten him since" (and it seems as if she wasn't talking about Mr Bennet).
It also kind of makes me think about family relations, really. Mr Bennet's indifference is something interesting to behold, and I like how he got mad at himself for "not laying away a sum for his daughters and wife". At least Mr Bennet was responsible enough to know that he should salvage the reputation his family still has. But Mrs Bennet? Ugh.
Oh my, it's the last day of the reading plan! If you have finished the book by this time, congratulations to you! Woot woot! :DI'll just have a quick recap of the last chapters, and we are free to enjoy the last few days of the week for idle discussion :)
Day 18: Had they done their duty (Book 3, Chapters 8-11)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Day 19: Recovering of spirits (Book 3, Chapters 12-14)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Day 20: Means of uniting them (Book 3, Chapters 15-18)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
(Discussion questions available in the FIRST POST if you're into that :D)
{ Don't forget: the book-of-the-month for November has already been decided! Get your copy of Kostova's The Historian so you could be ready for next month's discussion! :D }
"If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure.">>> Haha! I really, really adore Mr Bennet, especially when he's relaxed. I love how, in the last chapter, he enjoys visiting the Darcys (Darcies? Heh) when he is least expected :D
And there you go - Lydia & Wickham. Heh. I am really reminded of Fitzgerald's The Beautiful and Damned. (Dante: It's dripping with sarcasm, so I thought it an enjoyable read :D I adore Maury <3)
DC wrote: "Day 19: Recovering of spirits (Book 3, Chapters 12-14)"These were among my favorite turn of events. (view spoiler) Such sweet revenge! Di ba?
Louize wrote: "DC wrote: "Day 19: Recovering of spirits (Book 3, Chapters 12-14)"These were among my favorite turn of events. [spoilers removed] Such sweet revenge! Di ba?"
>>> Hahaha, true true! I guess gossip is good in this case xD Although I had to have a laugh at Collins mentioning that he advises the lovers not to "run off and get married", ha-ha-ha! (Which reminds me: I love Mr Bennet's note at the end, wherein he advises Mr Collins to "stick with the nephew". Hah!)
Dante wrote: "Great job, DC! :)"
>>> Thanks Dante! Thanks for sticking around too :D
DC: ""If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure.">>> "Haha! I really, really adore Mr Bennet, especially when he's relaxed. I love how, in the last chapter, he enjoys visiting the Darcys (Darcies? Heh) when he is least expected :D"
I love that line of his, too. Hehe. He's very witty and funny sometimes. He must have loved Pemberley.
"And there you go - Lydia & Wickham. Heh. I am really reminded of Fitzgerald's The Beautiful and Damned. (Dante: It's dripping with sarcasm, so I thought it an enjoyable read :D I adore Maury <3)"
Ganun ba hehehe. I'll give that book a try.
Hi DC! finished the book already, even made a review, hehe. Just thought Lydia is very maharot. If my mom ever knew her, she'd get a pinch in her singit.
Yes, Dante, I would've imagined that he would love Pemberly - considering that Mrs Bennet doesn't seem to go there as often as he does! :PHurrah! Congrats, Ranee :D Kung ganun, dapat pati si Mrs Bennet may kurot sa singit, haha! But really. She's such a sad example to her children. I recall the many times Jane & Elizabeth had to "blush for their mother" :/
But, really. Lydia's just... "wild", as she is described at a portion of a book. I wonder what she'd be like when she "grows up", or is, at least, not as beautiful as she is in her youth?
"If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure."This is a funny line but when I'm watching the Hollywood movie, it makes me teary-eyed.
some thoughts:
I like how Darcy and Elizabeth influence each other and changed for the better. Also, they proved that love can't be defined by social standing ;)
Mrs. Bennet was so funny when she was expressing her hate to Darcy. If only she knew the truth at that time, she should have encourage him. However, I think her character did not change. She thinks that Lizzy & Jane chose their husbands because of fortune.
Also, I still think that Lydia is such an irritating character. She married a useless man and now she's a leech to her sisters.
And yay~! congrats to us :D
Phoebe wrote: ""If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure."This is a funny line but when I'm watching the Hollywood movie, it makes me teary-eyed."
>>> Admittedly, it had brought tears to my eyes too :') (but then I had to turn my eyes immediately at the cheesiness to come, haha!)
Phoebe wrote: "I like how Darcy and Elizabeth influence each other and changed for the better. Also, they proved that love can't be defined by social standing ;)"
>>> Haha, yes! I liked reading what Darcy said:
"What did you say of me that I did not deserve? For, though your accusations were ill-founded, formed on mistaken premises, my behavior to you at the time had merited the severest reproof. It was unpardonable..."
To which Elizabeth replied:
"... The conduct of neither, if strictly examined, will be irreproachable; but since then, we have both, I hope, improved in civility."
I feel that... (view spoiler) :D
And yay, congrats Phoebe! :D
DC wrote: "Phoebe wrote: ""If any young men come for Mary or Kitty, send them in, for I am quite at leisure."This is a funny line but when I'm watching the Hollywood movie, it makes me teary-eyed."
>>> Admi..."
I like how Lizzy and Darcy kept their composure (after she said her "yes") even though they were both extremely happy... They were still very rational and civil. :)
Also, I love the scene between Lizzy and Lady Catherine. No Telenovela can beat that one. :D
Louize wrote: "DC wrote: "Day 19: Recovering of spirits (Book 3, Chapters 12-14)"These were among my favorite turn of events. [spoilers removed] Such sweet revenge! Di ba?"
Wow, you're right! Thank goodness for the nosy Lucases! :D
Ranee wrote: "Just thought Lydia is very maharot. If my mom ever knew her, she'd get a pinch in her singit."Kung ako ang mommy ni Lydia, hindi lang kurot. Ikakadena ko s'ya ng bongga hanggang sa mag 21 s'ya.
Giving this more thought, I think this was the price for Mr. Bennet's leniency. He gave Mrs Bennet full rein in their daughters' education and socialization.
On Mrs Bennet's part, I guess finding commendable husbands for 5 daughters without the capacity to provide suitable dowry was indeed stressful. Nothing occupies her mind more, I believe.
DC: nakakakilig <3Dante wrote: No Telenovela can beat that one.
funny XD
Louize wrote: Giving this more thought, I think this was the price for Mr. Bennet's leniency. He gave Mrs Bennet full rein in their daughters' education and socialization.
True that
Dante wrote: "Wow, you're right! Thank goodness for the nosy Lucases! :D "Thanks!
And we have to give credit to the fast and very efficient bringer of news, Mr Collins. I can imagine him trotting, almost tripping himself, his way to Rosings with Charlotte on his wake. His face was all sweat but hard determination was written all over it. He relayed the news to Lady Catherine hastily stuttering with gesticulation; and Charlotte stolid all the while .
Dante, so true, the Lady Catherine and Lizzy scene is what telenovelas were made out from. (except that if it were from a pinoy soap opera, Lizzy got slapped at the face and I'm imagining Lizzy hitting Lady Catherine back)hehehe But I guess, that portion is well crafted, if not because of that scene, Lizzy would have not stood her ground of her love for Mr. Darcy and in effect, Mr. Darcy would have not known the real contents of Lizzy's heart had Lady Catherine failed to tell him the events that occurred that day.
Louize wrote: "Dante wrote: "Wow, you're right! Thank goodness for the nosy Lucases! :D "Thanks!
And we have to give credit to the fast and very efficient bringer of news, Mr Collins. I can imagine him trotti..."
Haha... I wonder if they ever got invited to dine at Rosings again. :D
Ranee: "Dante, so true, the Lady Catherine and Lizzy scene is what telenovelas were made out from. (except that if it were from a pinoy soap opera, Lizzy got slapped at the face and I'm imagining Lizzy hitting Lady Catherine back)hehehe"Hahaha... if it's a Pinoy soap, all civility and decorum will be dropped and all hell will break loose.
Wouldn't it be fun if our telenovelas were as intelligent and sophisticated as Austen's novels? :D
"But I guess, that portion is well crafted, if not because of that scene, Lizzy would have not stood her ground of her love for Mr. Darcy and in effect, Mr. Darcy would have not known the real contents of Lizzy's heart had Lady Catherine failed to tell him the events that occurred that day."
Very true.
Just saw these in a blog. Aren't they cute? :)
They're from an upcoming board book by Jack and Holman Wang: http://www.amazon.com/Cozy-Classics-P...
Dante wrote: "Just saw these in a blog. Aren't they cute? :)"Aw, cute nga!
Hello everyone!It's the final day for the online group screening! We'll be playing Episodes 5 & 6 in a few minutes.
Check out the stream here: https://new.livestream.com/accounts/1...
And check out the chatroom here: http://xat.com/xat183614658
Thank you!
Hello everyone!I would just like to personally thank you all for participating in this month's discussion! It was a pleasure going through Pride & Prejudice with you :)
The next book-of-the-month is Kostova's The Historian, so if you'd like to participate in the discussion, do check out this link: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Again, thank you all, and I hope to converse with you again in the future! :D
Thanks, Camille! It was a beautiful day. :)
Thanks DC! The pleasure is ours.
Thank you DC and to everyone. You are all so friendly and approachable. :)
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>>> Hello Lyn! Welcome :D And yes, Elizabeth was rather flavored with prejudice - especially since she was initially charmed by Wickham, and slighted by Darcy ;) (I also find it funny that she STILL proceeds to be prejudiced, and quick to assumptions, even AFTER Darcy's true character has been revealed to her!)
In a way, Jane is her better in this aspect, I think :)
I myself was watching on my PC (not the livestream) yesterday! You should've joined our chat then :D Well, we'll be watching episodes 5&6 by next week, so I hope we see you then!