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[F2F Book Discussions] October 2012: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Moderator: DC
DC: "If I'm not mistaken, that book also notes the real towns that the fictional ones in the book have been based on :)"Yes, towns, parks (houses), and some of the characters for each of the six novels. Have you read it?:)
Day 6: Feelings chiefly expressed (Book 1, Chapters 20-23)1. A number of things seem to be unfolding for these chapters. Note which ones struck you the most, and give your expectations & surmises about the characters.
Miss Bingley is not very subtle in her letter to Miss Bennet that they don't want her and their brother together. They would much rather prefer the far more accomplished Miss Darcy. But Jane has such a good heart that she refuses to think ill of them, or anybody for that matter. She has so much trust on human nature. She is always just and resilient... but her strength makes her a bit naive.
Charlotte's acceptance of Mr. Collins (he reminds me of Sheldon Cooper) was unexpected, considering that she's supposed to be intelligent and reasonable. But she's also more pragmatic than romantic.
2. "Elizabeth felt persuaded that no real confidence could ever subsist between them again." (Chap. 23) What do you think of this statement? Do you think you would have felt the same in Lizzy's shoes?
Maybe. Lizzy felt that Charlotte just made the biggest mistake of her life. They are no longer alike in their way of thinking about marriage, etc.
3. Considering that these are the last chapters for Book 1, breathe freely and have a chocolate. You're 1/3rd done!
Why thank you! :D
Day 5
1. Oh, Darcy desires to make Lizzy realized that he is not the kind of person she thinks he is. But being Mr Darcy, he does it in a way that suggests otherwise. While he thinks of ways to reveal his true self without deviating from his usual personality, his words became embellishments to Lizzy's prejudices instead of a form of deconstruction.
As for Lizzy, this is a pure conjecture but I think she is looking something inside Darcy to make her wrong. Does she not approve of Darcy simply because of his oozing pride or because she cannot easily read him? Is her persistence to view Darcy a "loathsome" being her way to persuade herself that she is not attracted? Is her acceptance of Darcy's offer a kind of "Freudian slip" because deep inside her heart she finds Darcy intriguing and compelling?
(and I didn't even answer the question XD)
2.
Mr Darcy : With doubt, of course. She cannot risk believing in a person she cannot fully trust. Would she believe a person that she perceived as amiable and agreeable or someone she cannot comprehend? Lizzy is a person who always looks for a solid ground. She tends to lean on truths she knows her judgment would prevail. She is not Jane who accepts testimonies without scrutinizing them first. She just can't afford to be proven wrong.
Mr Bingley: To quote Niel Tupas, his testimony is "impertinent, irrelevant, immaterial". That is all.
Ms Bingley : We all know how will that end up. She and Lizzy are the vague face of argumentum ad hominem. They don't see truths in the other's statement simply because they only see the negative side of one's personality. Why would Lizzy believe Ms Bingley when the latter does things only to capture Darcy's attention? Why would Ms Bingley then give Lizzy a room to explain when she doesn't even appreciate her presence? Nothing fruitful will result from their conversation.
3. It came to me with no surprise because it was already heavily hinted from the preceding chapters.
Mr Bennet though,
"From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do."
He is a pure gem.
1. Oh, Darcy desires to make Lizzy realized that he is not the kind of person she thinks he is. But being Mr Darcy, he does it in a way that suggests otherwise. While he thinks of ways to reveal his true self without deviating from his usual personality, his words became embellishments to Lizzy's prejudices instead of a form of deconstruction.
As for Lizzy, this is a pure conjecture but I think she is looking something inside Darcy to make her wrong. Does she not approve of Darcy simply because of his oozing pride or because she cannot easily read him? Is her persistence to view Darcy a "loathsome" being her way to persuade herself that she is not attracted? Is her acceptance of Darcy's offer a kind of "Freudian slip" because deep inside her heart she finds Darcy intriguing and compelling?
(and I didn't even answer the question XD)
2.
Mr Darcy : With doubt, of course. She cannot risk believing in a person she cannot fully trust. Would she believe a person that she perceived as amiable and agreeable or someone she cannot comprehend? Lizzy is a person who always looks for a solid ground. She tends to lean on truths she knows her judgment would prevail. She is not Jane who accepts testimonies without scrutinizing them first. She just can't afford to be proven wrong.
Mr Bingley: To quote Niel Tupas, his testimony is "impertinent, irrelevant, immaterial". That is all.
Ms Bingley : We all know how will that end up. She and Lizzy are the vague face of argumentum ad hominem. They don't see truths in the other's statement simply because they only see the negative side of one's personality. Why would Lizzy believe Ms Bingley when the latter does things only to capture Darcy's attention? Why would Ms Bingley then give Lizzy a room to explain when she doesn't even appreciate her presence? Nothing fruitful will result from their conversation.
3. It came to me with no surprise because it was already heavily hinted from the preceding chapters.
Mr Bennet though,
"From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do."
He is a pure gem.
Dante wrote: "Day 5: Preparation in the highest spirits (Book 1, Chapters 18-19)1. Describe the dance between Lizzy and Darcy. If you could read their minds while they were thus engaged, what do you think the ..."
Galing! natawa ako sa lines ni Mr Darcy, conceited pa talaga!
Louize wrote: "Dante wrote: "Day 5: Preparation in the highest spirits (Book 1, Chapters 18-19)1. Describe the dance between Lizzy and Darcy. If you could read their minds while they were thus engaged, what do ..."
Hahaha! Oo conceited pa talaga siya... :D
I'll just be on for a short while (so I'll go over your replies later), but I'm glad to see your responses! :)At any rate, here's what we're to do from tomorrow onward:
Week 2 discussion format:
I, DC, as the moderator, will start Day 1 of Week 2 with a theme and a question. Everyone can answer this question, until someone else comes up with another one - which everyone may answer, until, again, someone else comes up with another question. This will be on a first come, first serve basis.
In the event no new question is put forth, I will put forth another one to the crowd, which everyone will again answer, until someone else comes up with another question.
This will continue until the end of the day. In the morning of the next day, I will again set a theme and a question, and the discussion shall go on until the next day, etc. etc.
As usual, please keep to the current chapters for discussion, and do use the spoiler tags to note any events that will take place after the noted chapters.
E.G.
Today's theme: Love
DC: Do you think Darcy is truly, madly, deeply in love with Lizzy?
Commenter 1: No, he cannot possibly be in love - he is too proud to be in love! My question: Do you think Lizzy is in love with Wickham?
Commenter 2: No, her playful nature cannot allow her to be truly in love! (And, to go back to the first Q, I also think that Darcy couldn't be in love with Lizzy... yet.)
Commenter 3: It can't be love, because all he does do when he's with Lizzy is talk about Darcy! Wickham seems to favor talking about the man more than anything... Anyway, here's my question: Do you think Mr. Bennet is in love Mrs. Bennet?
[And so on, and so forth]
Any comments/suggestions/violent reactions? If none, we shall start tomorrow, at daybreak :)
Yay new discussion scheme! Hindi na ako nakamoveon sa questions from Day 1. Answers pa lang kasi ng iba nakakalula na. :DFinished reading Pride and Prejudice last Sunday. I really liked it, but I think I should reserve my reasons for liking it on the discussion proper? :D
Looking forward for tomorrow's new discussion! :)
BTW. See how Jane Austen invaded my last.fm music library last week:
Note: DC the non-moderator takes over this post.Tricia wrote: "regarding the "pakipot" issue: It's not bad kasi girls should know that they are meant to be pursued but not to the extreme naman (you tipong who the heck does she think she is? ang iisipin ng guy ..."
>>> Admittedly, this has something to do with the culture of then and now; thoughts of women for and regarding themselves was very different before :) (Personally, hindi ako napaka-experienced sa ganito, so I'll consider this an opinion from someone who knows what she's talking about! Haha!)
Phoebe wrote: "But well, I read Pride & Prejudice & Zombies haha it's just that they should make new characters and stories of their own."
>>> Aha! That reminds me of an awesome book by Jostein Gaardner! :D (Not Sophie's World, haha.)
Louize wrote: " He rules and lives his life with a certain honor that cannot be easily bent. By far, that is commendable. But let us not assume that when a man lives in a straight line, this straight line cannot be leveled down or up. As to Mr Wickham, I cannot say yet if he’s qualified as a good judge of character despite their previous association. "
>>> Succinctly put, although it leaves room for verification - of which we shall discuss anyway in the next chapters :)
Dante wrote: "Why shouldn't she? I'm the handsomest, wealthiest bachelor in this ball."
>>> *LOL*
Dante wrote: "Yes, towns, parks (houses), and some of the characters for each of the six novels. Have you read it?:)"
>>> Truth be told, I have not. However, I have come across it more than once in my research :D
Dante wrote: "But Jane has such a good heart that she refuses to think ill of them, or anybody for that matter. She has so much trust on human nature. She is always just and resilient... but her strength makes her a bit naive."
>>> I felt for her very much at this point :'(
Kate wrote: " Does that sound positive at all? There's something fishy down Wickham's sweet words. cliché, cliché. "
>>> True, true :)
Kate wrote: "But being Mr Darcy, he does it in a way that suggests otherwise. While he thinks of ways to reveal his true self without deviating from his usual personality, his words became embellishments to Lizzy's prejudices instead of a form of deconstruction."
>>> I'm not sure if this was his intent, but he DID look like he was trying to tell her something, hmm? And that note about a Freudian slip - haha! You might just be right :o [BTW - may nalalaman ka pang Niel Tupas?! Nuuuuks]
Kate wrote: "Mr Bennet though,
"From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do."
He is a pure gem. "
>>> This is one of my favorite lines from him, yes :D
Aaron Vincent wrote: "Yay new discussion scheme! Hindi na ako nakamoveon sa questions from Day 1. Answers pa lang kasi ng iba nakakalula na. :D
Finished reading Pride and Prejudice last Sunday. I really liked it, but I..."
>>> I'll take your sentiment on the "nakakalulang answers" as a compliment to the audience :D
>>> BTW: I once read (or was it heard?) of a someone who didn't like listening to the radio because they always (view spoiler) (hidden due to possible creep factor). And yay for new discussion!
Hope to see you tomorrow guys! :)
The format for week 2 is very interesting!
I second the nakakalulang answers! Haha I've been watching but I haven't had the time to read through and write answers...so I'll skip them for now. Save for DC's two questions!>>> Warning zone? What do you mean by this? Do you personally feel you have your own "warning zone"?
- Oh you know, biological clock ticking. Well at that time, getting married was a goal for them, and while the Mrs. Bennett's ways may be too nagging, I'd like to think she was looking out for her daughters. In her own strange way.
Personally? I guess I have my own "deadline", but it's not really a deadly deadline. While I'd like to get married and settle down by the age of 28-29 (and then have kids about a year or two after), I don't think my world would end if I am still unmarried after that age. I'm going to worry, yes, but my life will still go on. :P
>>> Do you really believe [Mr. Bennett] does it lovingly? :)
- Haha, I'm basing my answers on how I remember him on the TV series. But I think it is quite loving, because he was never cruel to her. If it wasn't loving, then maybe he was humoring everything, given that he is stuck with her. I think he loves his daughters too much to leave (is it even possible to divorce your spouse back then? Or you're stuck with them forever and you just learn to love them?), or he's not the kind of person who would interfere with what his wife wants. (Reminds me of my own dad, haha!)
Once again, great job, DC! Looking forward to Week 2!
ay, new discussion scheme.. hehe kapressure, di ko pa nga nasasagutan from day 3 onwards!
Thank you, Dante, Tina and Cary! :)Tina: Thanks for answering the follow-up Qs! Blue said something earlier relating to the "biological clock", btw, so that's rather interesting :D And no, divorce was not possible during those times (Angus mentioned poor women empowerment - and he's right!), so you could imagine how some women had to bear it all then, least of all a loveless marriage. No more follow-up to a follow-up Q xD
Cary: Don't worry about the previous week's questions, btw. You can start afresh, don't mind Week 1 Qs, and just begin to answer Week 2's, no problem :D
Hello everyone! Today begins the 2nd week - and thus the 2nd volume of the book! We also have a new discussion format up. Second Week: Second Opinions
Day 8: Professed affections (Book 2, Chapters 1-3)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Today's theme: Preference
Question: What do you think of Mrs Gardiner's observations regarding Lizzy's preference for Wickham?
Trivia: When calling, the caller often remained in the carriage while her servant took the card and handed it to the servant who answered the door. The card was brought to the mistress or master of the house, who would then decide whether or not to receive the caller. If the person was 'not at home', it was a rejection of the visitor. The person might give his or her card to the caller. If not, this usually meant he or she was not interested in furthering the acquaintance. However, if the card was given, there was hope for the relationship to grow.
[For more info on the new discussion format, check out this post: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... ]
Day 6: Feelings chiefly expressed (Book 1, Chapters 20-23)What happened in these chapters:
1) The wickedness of Caroline is an a-ha! moment for me because her feelings for Darcy was so obvious. She was complimenting Georgiana to get his attention, and she was suggesting Bingley for Georgiana to get closer to Darcy. (Can I just use Charles & Fitzwilliam? haha)
I was disappointed with Mr.Bingley because his feelings can be waived by his surroundings especially the prejudices. (->A character I do not like, that’s why he was not my favorite)
Lastly, Charlotte’s financial security over love. I do not like the idea of being a slave for money.
2) It was what she felt but it will heal through time. I think I would feel the same. I just rejected this guy who proposed to me out of the blue and she accepted it in a heartbeat! Not only that, she’s my friend. And it will be weird for me to be friend with someone who prefers money (and Mr. Collins!) but I won’t let our friendship be wasted so I might forgive her through time.
OM NOM NOM
I want to answer the day 8 question but I can't think of something to ask with the theme preference. Hmm...
Thanks for the answers, Phoebe :D [And I guess you can use Charles & Fitzwilliam, though I feel that there are too many repetitive names in the book xD]Haha! I guess my directions were unclear :) Anyone can answer the question, but asking another theme question is unnecessary, unless the person really wishes to ask it :D
DC: "What do you think of Mrs Gardiner's observations regarding Lizzy's preference for Wickham?"I think that it shows that Mrs. Gardiner has very good sense, or that she is a very sensible woman. She quickly saw the imprudence of Wickham's frequent visit to Longbourn to see Lizzy and the rest of her family. Perhaps she could detect that something is amiss with him, even if at that time she had no reason to think ill of him.
Dante wrote: "I think that it shows that Mrs. Gardiner has very good sense, or that she is a very sensible woman....">>> Truth be told, I liked how she reminded Lizzy to keep the appropriate distance :D Lizzy obviously seemed excited about Wickham :o
Maybe she has a thing for regimentals? :D
DC wrote: "Lizzy obviously seemed excited about Wickham :o "Haha this reminds me of...well, myself, actually. I get excited about...things a lot. :))
Dante wrote: "Things, eh? :D"Haha, let's keep it at that. :D
DC: I cannot think of questions! But then you'll be posting a new theme in a few hours, so I figure I'll just wait for that one before trying to think of one. :D
Dante wrote: "Maybe she has a thing for regimentals? :D">>> Personally speaking, I don't really think she has a thing for regimentals. Although thinking about it, she was proud that Wickham paid attention to her, as opposed to paying attention to other girls (before the rich young lady came into the picture, that is) :D
Tina wrote: "DC: I cannot think of questions! But then you'll be posting a new theme in a few hours, so I figure I'll just wait for that one befo..."
>>> You don't need to formulate a question, if you don't want to :) you could just answer the hanging question, then wait for someone else to think of a question :D
Hi guys! Tonight's the first online screening the TFG's conducting for the BBC TV Mini-series! Check out the thread (& notable post!) here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... :D Do come and join us!Day 9 (& 10): Considering with greater pleasure (Book 2, Chapters 4-10)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Today's theme: Rosings
Question: What did you think were the first thoughts of Darcy upon seeing Lizzy at Rosings?
Trivia: A lady's education was taken, almost entirely, at home. There were boarding schools, but no University, and the studies were very different. She learned French, drawing, dancing, music, and the use of globes. If the school, or the governess, was interested in teaching any practical skills, she learned plain sewing as well as embroidery, and accounts.
Day 8 post here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
"Question: What did you think were the first thoughts of Darcy upon seeing Lizzy at Rosings?"Maybe something like this: "She's here! I'm very much surprised! But she is a close friend of Mrs. Collins, after all. I am anxious to meet her again. I thought I was finally safe when we left Netherfield for London, but now, there is no escaping it... There is no escaping her. How glad, how happy I am. To recognize the truth that my affections for her are real and constant is something like freedom. This visit to my aunt won't be dull, after all. I am thrilled, to think that I shall be in Miss Bennet's presence once again! To think that I shall hear her voice, see her eyes and her smile once more!"
Do you think Colonel Fitzwilliam was in love with Lizzy?
Dante: Oh, Dante wrote: "Do you think Colonel Fitzwilliam was in love with Lizzy?"
Oooh, I like this question! He's very engaging, and even Lady Catherine noted that Lizzy's "pretty"... Maybe he is! Although in the later chapters... (view spoiler) :D
Day 10: Being most comfortably settled (Book 2, Chapters 7-10)My apologies, I think I skipped a day in the reading plan o_o No matter. Due to my mistake, today is an anything-goes day :D Feel free to conjecture on what has happened, what's happening in the current chapters, and what is to happen in the near future :)
DC wrote: "Dante: Oh, you Darcy do seems quite in love, considering your words :3"Yes, I think I, er, I mean he was already very much in love with her by the time they met at Rosings. :D
"Oooh, I like this question! He's very engaging, and even Lady Catherine noted that Lizzy's "pretty"... Maybe he is! Although in the later chapters..."
I tend to think so, too. Maybe he even intended to propose to her on that day when Lizzy was reading Darcy's letters in the woods? He waited for her for about an hour in Hunsford... Maybe Darcy could see that his cousin admires Lizzy, too, and, sensing that a proposal was forthcoming from him, beat him to it. :D
Dante wrote: "DC wrote: "Dante: Oh, you Darcy do seems quite in love, considering your words :3"Yes, I think I, er, I mean he was already very much in love with her by the time they met at Rosings. :D
"Oooh, ..."
>>> Yikes! I have not thought of this. Haha! Two proposals in a span of a day, phew o_o And that manipulative Darcy! Coming over while everyone else is gone, too :o
We're nearly done with Volume 2, and this part is one of the most interesting (if not THE most interesting) in the book.Day 11: Revival of past occurences (Book 2, Chapters 11-12)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Today's theme: Interest
Question: What do you think of Darcy's interesting (and seemingly haughty) way of proposing to Lizzy?
Trivia: England courtship was known for being very long, usually lasting anywhere from nine months to two years. Courtship was very long because men wanted to be sure that they had found the perfect mate. Divorce was extremely difficult to get, in order to obtain a divorce the couple must first request permission to part, often these wishes were not granted. Divorce was also extremely expensive, only the higher classes were able to afford them.
Day 9 & 10 post here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
DC wrote: "Dante wrote: "DC wrote: "Dante: Oh, you Darcy do seems quite in love, considering your words :3"Yes, I think I, er, I mean he was already very much in love with her by the time they met at Rosing..."
How did Mr. Darcy know that Miss Bennet was alone in the parsonage? And, how did he know where to find her the following morning to hand her his letter?
Shall we now call him the Stalker of Pemberley?
"Question: What do you think of Darcy's interesting (and seemingly haughty) way of proposing to Lizzy?"It was very interesting and amusing. He was romantic but obnoxious at the same time. Good for Lizzy for giving him a piece of her mind.
Dante wrote: " And, how did he know where to find her the following morning to hand her his letter?Shall we now call him the Stalker of Pemberley? "
>>> In all fairness, it was because Lizzy was familiar with the walks there, and the both of them had some walks together in that path :) But yeah - pretty stalker-ish if you ask me.
Dante wrote: ""Question: What do you think of Darcy's interesting (and seemingly haughty) way of proposing to Lizzy?"
It was very interesting and amusing. He was romantic but obnoxious at the same time. Good fo..."
>>> True true :)
In these chapters, we see the aftermath of an interesting proposal.Day 12: Contrariety of emotion (Book 2, Chapters 13-16)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Today's theme: Darcy
Question: Do you believe that Lizzy had indeed been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd with regards to Darcy (and Wickham)? In what ways?
Trivia: It is said that Jane Austen was particular about the places she wrote about, and paid close attention to detail when she could. (See map below for generally conjectured areas where Pride & Prejudice takes place. Clicking on the image will lead to an article published on the subject.)
Day 11 post here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Re Day 6I'm just joking because isn't it weird not to be first name basis with the main characters that you really like? haha
Oh sorry I did not fully understand.
~~**~~
Day 11
"Question: What do you think of Darcy's interesting (and seemingly haughty) way of proposing to Lizzy?"
I actually find it cute because he can't believe himself admitting his real feelings for her. And it was funny because he was clueless how to tell her the right way. Just when he thought she will immediately say yes, he was like slapped right in his face. He was too cocky and full of himself plus it is not romantic to pronounce that you do not care about her inferiority anymore. How would a woman like Lizzy will say yes? haha
Oooh I didn't know divorce exists since that era.
edited: oops I didn't see that you posted a new one
Day 12: Contrariety of emotionQuestion: Do you believe that Lizzy had indeed been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd with regards to Darcy (and Wickham)? In what ways?
Yes, she immediately believed Wickham without hearing or considering Darcy's side. Even as she read the letter, she had to reread it in order to see things in a different light. She basically based her judgements by appearances as Wickham has a jolly and good natured facade while Darcy was introvert and silent. Moreover, Wickham was too inconsistent throughout but she didn't notice because all she see were bad things about Darcy.
Hi Phoebe! :)Phoebe wrote: "... he was like slapped right through his face. He was too cocky and full of himself plus it is not romantic to broad that you do not care about her inferiority anymore. How would a woman like Lizzy will say yes? haha"
>>> Hah, yes! I find it funny that he says "You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you", and then goes ahead and tells Lizzy (in her face) that she doesn't deserve him.
Phoebe wrote: Yes, she immediately believed Wickham without hearing or considering Darcy's side. Even as she read the letter, she had to reread it in order to see things in a different light. She basically based her judgements by appearances as Wickham has a jolly and good natured facade while Darcy was introvert and silent. Moreover, Wickham was too inconsistent throughout but she didn't notice because all she see were bad things about Darcy. "
>>> Considering that Darcy did have that prideful demeanor the first time Lizzy encountered him at the dance, I'd say that she indeed had her reasons (and roots!) to think harshly of Darcy. What did you think of Wickham, though, as you read those passages? Did your views on him and Darcy change at this point?
DC: "In all fairness, it was because Lizzy was familiar with the walks there, and the both of them had some walks together in that path :) But yeah - pretty stalker-ish if you ask me."Just kidding. :D
"Question: Do you believe that Lizzy had indeed been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd with regards to Darcy (and Wickham)? In what ways?"Yes. Her knowledge of both men were superficial at first. It was based on what she observed about their personalities. But personality does not necessarily reflect character.
DC: That is embarrassing, pardon the wrong use of English words."..I'd say that she indeed had her reasons (and roots!) to think harshly of Darcy. What did you think of Wickham, though, as you read those passages? Did your views on him and Darcy change at this point?"
I stand corrected. You're right, she had reasons to think of him like that. But she was carried away by her judgement on thinking of him as mean in its extremity.
I like how Jane Austen made gray areas because it is not always black and white(i.e. just because someone's good he'll be good all way & if someone's bad, he doesn't have any goodness in him)
It's surprising to know their real characters. My view on Wickham change but with Darcy, no because I like him from the start. haha I like his pompous entrance, and I think his personality is kind of cute. In Japan, his personality would be called tsundere.
Dante wrote: "Yes. Her knowledge of both men were superficial at first. It was based on what she observed about their personalities. But personality does not necessarily reflect character. ">>> I'm going to have to ask what the difference between personality and character is for you. In terms of Wickham - we see him charming, though with a shady background. How does it compare?
Phoebe: Haha, tsundere! Hah!
Phoebe wrote: "DC: That is embarrassing, pardon the wrong use of English words.
"..I'd say that she indeed had her reasons (and roots!) to think harshly of Darcy. What did you think of Wickham, though, as you re..."
>>> Hi Phoebe! If it's easier for you to speak in, say, Tagalog, mag-Tagalog ka na :) You might even be able to express yourself better that way, so it's ok :)
Phoebe wrote: "I like how Jane Austen made gray areas because it is not always black and white(i.e. just because someone's good he'll be good all way & if someone's bad, he doesn't have any goodness in him)"
>>> Simply put, but I honestly have not thought of it this way! Realistic enough in this sense, to be sure :)
Hurrah! We're 2/3rds of the book done! My question for today is rather random, really :)Day 13: Preparing to be surprised (Book 2, Chapters 17-19)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
Today's theme: Elizabeth
Question: Pretend you are an established novelist. If the working title of your next drama/murder mystery is “The Death of Elizabeth Bennet’s Regard for Wickham”, how would your synopsis go? Care to give us a snippet to whet our appetites for this, your next bestseller?
Trivia: Back then, a girl’s chastity was absolutely vital for her good name, while a man’s was not. If a young lady had slept with a man other than her husband, there was a risk that any baby boy born in the subsequent marriage might inherit property which did not rightfully belong to him, as the baby had been secretly conceived out of the marriage.
Day 12 post here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
"If it's easier for you to speak in, say, Tagalog, mag-Tagalog ka na :) You might even be able to express yourself better that way, so it's ok :)"Sa totoo lang nakakahiya kasi na-post ko na haha pero pina-practice ko yung English ko eh haha
DC: "I'm going to have to ask what the difference between personality and character is for you. In terms of Wickham - we see him charming, though with a shady background. How does it compare?"I think that character and personality is comparable to the interior and exterior aspects of a house.
Wickham would be a house with an attractive facade: The painting is bright and brand-new, the doors and windows are perfect, and the garden is beautiful. But if we step inside, we will see that everything is in disarray: Trash litters the floor, the air smells, the tables and chairs are dusty and broken, the walls are cracked, and the foundation is shaky.
Darcy would be a house that doesn't really look attractive from the outside: The garden is not well-taken cared of, the lawn is not manicured, the doors and windows look old, and the paint is peeling away. But if we step inside, we will see that everything is in order: The floor is clean, the fixtures are elegant, the rooms are beautifully furnished, and the foundation is strong.
But Darcy... (view spoiler)
Phoebe wrote: ""If it's easier for you to speak in, say, Tagalog, mag-Tagalog ka na :) You might even be able to express yourself better that way, so it's ok :)"Sa totoo lang nakakahiya kasi na-post ko na haha ..."
>>> Haha, go lang :D
Dante wrote: "DC: "I'm going to have to ask what the difference between personality and character is for you. In terms of Wickham - we see him charming, though with a shady background. How does it compare?"
I t..."
>>> I suppose it's how you live and not exactly where :D
Hello everyone! At this point, we'd have finished 2 of 3 volumes of the book, so congratulations to all for getting here!Today is a designated free day in the reading plan. Do make use of this day for rest - or catching up on the chapters for reading :)
We will again have a new discussion format for Week 3.
Week 3 discussion format
For this week, I, DC, as the moderator, will no longer be posting new discussion questions everyday. I will still, however, be posting the chapters as mentioned in the reading plan, as well as some trivia relevant for the chapters mentioned.
Anyone who would like to answer any former questions is welcome to do so, and you may go ahead and discuss what you've seen, felt and generally interested you in the book so far :)
Notes:
- A little leniency for this last week, especially considering that the face-to-face discussion of P&P (by Oct 20) is soon upon us! If you're in the area (Starbucks at The Grove, Pasig) and have the time (3-6pm), do come and join us :D
- We will still be streaming live episodes 3 & 4 of the 1995 TV mini-series. Don't be shy to come and join us! The next date: Oct 12, Friday, 9-11pm. Check out the online group screening thread for more details.
DC: "I suppose it's how you live and not exactly where :D"Hehehe, yes. It's how aligned the person's habits and lifestyle are to the virtues (prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude, and etc).
Hi everyone! P&P live screening tonight of episodes 3 and 4 is a go! Same live stream link and chat room as indicated in this post. :)
Hi everyone! I'm really just new here and well, I've read this discussion. Its just a shame I didn't find it sooner.In any case though, I hope it's fine if I answer some questions that I find rather interesting. Question: Do you believe that Lizzy had indeed been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd with regards to Darcy (and Wickham)? In what ways?
I think Lizzy had been impartial to Mr. Darcy, and she has her own prejudice. Frankly when I first read it, I was sure it was Mr. Darcy who was only prejudiced but as time went and I reread it, I've seen that she has her own prejudice. As much as she prided herself in being a good judge of character, the flaws of a human being had been seen to her. The tendency and vulnerability of people to listen to gossip and hearsay, and even the lasting first impressions had struck Elizabeth hard when it came to Mr. Darcy. I do understand her though because it was mostly pertaining to her family and the ones she loved. Austen had truly gave life to that way of life and it was incredible, how sometimes the heart makes rush judgment more than the mind does.
I'd like to watch 3&4 but I'm a bit busy! I love the BBC version a lot but my computer can't handle the streaming so I'd watch it alone with my copy! :)
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Historian (other topics)The Beautiful and Damned (other topics)
The Historian (other topics)
Pride and Prejudice (other topics)
The Perks of Being a Wallflower (other topics)
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1. Describe the dance between Lizzy and Darcy. If you could read their minds while they were thus engaged, what do you think the two would have been thinking?
Maybe something like this:
Lizzy: "Why did he ask me to dance? And why did I say yes!? What was I thinking!? This is so vexing! Why am I dancing with this insufferable man? What could his design be? No doubt, to criticize my dancing. But I am not intimidated. My spirit always rises to the occasion when challenged. But perhaps he merely wants to atone for having slighted me at the ball in Meryton? No, no, his pride will not allow it. His design is more sinister, I am sure. Insufferable man. Keep calm, Lizzy. Show him that you're not affected by him in the least. Make him pay, moreover. He doesn't want to talk, as I am sure he feels that this society is so beneath him. Ask him questions. Ask him about Mr. Wickham, and remind him of his sins... But smile and try to enjoy the dance."
Darcy: "There she is, with her sister, she's finally arrived. I must ask her to dance...
"She said yes! But of course she said yes. Why shouldn't she? I'm the handsomest, wealthiest bachelor in this ball. She is so beautiful. Her eyes, her face, her lips, the curls on her forehead... She catches my gaze, I must look away. But those eyes. They have haunted me since that night in Meryton.
"I'm finally holding her hand. I can feel the warmth of her fingers, and the texture of her gloves... Why is she asking me these questions? But I love her voice. How I longed to hear it again and again. How I longed to talk to her, listen to her, see her smile..."
2. Lizzy received a number of opinions from different people regarding Mr. Wickham in Chapter 18 (at least three). Note each one, and her reception of them. Do you think that her conclusion regarding Mr. Darcy is fair?
Nope. She shouldn't have made conclusions regarding anyone without hearing both sides of the story.
3. What are your thoughts on the proposal to Lizzy? Did it come as a surprise to you?
At first, yes. I didn't expect it. It was so interesting (and amusing) to read.