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[F2F Book Discussions] October 2012: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Moderator: DC
DC wrote: Biena! We're planning to watch the series and movie together in the next few weeks! Watch it with us :) (We'll put up a forum/chatroom and everything!)"I suggest we watch Becoming Jane as well, (it's a Hathaway/Mcavoy movie *grin*) Austen's affair with Lefroy is believed to be her biggest inspiration for P&P, the theory is depicted in the movie. It's heartbreaking at a point, though.
Phoebe: I love that scene in the movie. :D
Tina wrote: "Phoebe: I love that scene in the movie. :D"Tina: Me, too. Actually, I love all of it haha
Phoebe: I love that track too! That's the first thing I tried to learn after listening to the soundtrack :D I like Georgiana, Darcy's Letter, and that song when they danced at the Netherfield Ball :D
All right, everyone! Before we start reading Pride and Prejudice tomorrow, it would be fitting to get acquainted to the author herself. I had the pleasure of going back in time, May 1816 to be exact, to ask her a few questions. Since she was born on the 16th of December, 1775, she should be about 40 years old. Isn't that cool? :D Below is the transcript of our meeting as of 1:55 PM, England 1816 time.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*I get out of my time traveling machine, which is disguised as a pianoforte, and emerge into the Austens' sitting room. At least I think it is. After a loooooong explanation to who I believe is Jane Austen, who happened to be in the room when I arrived, she agreed to answer a few questions about her life*
Blue: Hello, Miss Austen! It is a pleasure to meet you!
Jane Austen: Hello! Likewise.
B: Would you mind if I take your picture right now, for the members of my book club? *brings out camera*
JA: What is that contraption?
B: *hides camera away* Oops. It's.. erm.. a portable flash bulb.
JA: Flash bulb?
B: Never mind.
JA: ..... I have a portrait made by my sister, Cassandra. It has some resemblance. Here it is:
B: Why, thank you! That looks
JA: I am the seventh of eight children. Cassandra is my older sister, named after our mother. The rest are brothers: James, George, Edward, Henry, Francis, and Charles.
B: That is a large family!
JA: It is indeed. But we do get along, and my father and brothers, James and Henry, even helped me with my education.
B: That is very supportive of them. Pray, tell me more!
JA: My father, Rev. George Austen, maintains and continually expands a varied library, and we children are welcome to study its contents whenever we wished. I was educated at home, until the time came for me to go with my sister to study in a boarding school. After almost two years, we had to return because it was becoming quite expensive. My father does not make much, you see, only about six hundred pounds a year.
B: You are lucky, though, to have experienced such freedom.
JA: I do consider myself so, yes. My siblings and I are very privileged in that way, even though we are not very rich.
B: Does your father get pressured when the marriage matters of you and your sisters are discussed? I imagine six hundred pounds a year is not much to marry on.
JA: That is true. In this society, "marriage markets" are the norm. I do not like it, but I am certain that I will not be a burden to my father, because I refuse to marry for money. As I told my niece, Fanny Knight, a couple of summers past, "anything is to be preferred or endured rather than marrying without affection."
B: Oh, I see. It must have been difficult for you, but you mentioned something curious. Can you please tell me about this thing you call "marriage markets"?
JA: It merely means that, more often that not, the most important thing in any marriage prospect is how much money both sides can provide. People scoff at the idea of marrying for love, and it is altogether uncommon to marry for it. I actually have a satirical charade [word puzzle] that has relations with marriage markets. Would you like to see it? You could try to think about what it is.
B: Sure! Let's see it!
JA:
You may lie on my first on the side of a stream,
And my second compose to the nymph you adore,
But if, when you've none of my whole, her esteem
And affection diminish -- think of her no more!
B: I.... have no idea. The first line could mean "river" while the second, "song", but I doubt "river song" is the answer.
JA: You are correct in thinking that your answer is wrong *chuckles and thinks, 'What a silly girl'* The answer is this: (view spoiler) See what I did there?
B: Oh well. Close enough! But let's get back to the topic. You mentioned something about marriage markets, but did you not have somebody you wanted to marry?
JA: I have no plans of getting married.
B: Really? But did not you enjoy going to balls?
JA: I loved dancing and socializing, verily, but nobody has caught my eye.
B: Wehhhhh. Are you sure?
JA: ...
B: *nudge nudge* I think his name is Tom... and he looks like this...
JA: Is that a painting? What an uncanny likeness! You must be a very gifted painter.
B: Why, thank you. *O HA. SILLY GIRL DAW.* But please tell me about him!
JA: Oh, all right. You must mean Tom Lefroy. He was a close acquaintance of mine. The last of him that I have seen must have been two decades ago. What we had was not to be.
B: Aww shucks. Whyyyyyyy
JA: Two words, my dear Blue: Marriage market.
B: Well, that sucks.
JA: His family disliked me, and I dare to think he must have been withheld from further contact with me and my family whenever he is nearby.
B: That is so depressing. It seems like the stuff of novels!
JA: Such is life.
B: Speaking of novels...
[to be continued.... in probably an hour. JA's publisher, Thomas Egerton, and some people have come for tea. In the meantime, I am hiding in the pianoforte to avoid further explanation.]
[Part 2]*finally, the visitors leave, maybe to go hunting or whatever it is publishers do in Regency England. I emerge.*
B: Are there any scones left?
JA: Here. *full plate*
B: Yay!
JA: Where were we?
B: Scones.. oh yes! I was about to ask you about your writings. When did you first start writing?
JA: I started properly writing poems, stories, and plays when I was eleven or twelve, but that was mainly for my family's entertainment. I have compiled them, and I now fondly call them the Juvenilia.
B: What type of stories did you write?
JA: I loved writing parodies and satires. I wrote one called Love and Friendship. It was supposed to mock novels of sensibility. I also mocked History of England by Oliver Goldsmith with my own, called simply History. I even made a parody out of the popular novel The History of Sir Charles Grandison, by Samuel Richardson! They were all only meant to entertain, however. I hope you would not misunderstand me.
B: Not at all! But was it not an unusual hobby, writing parodies?
JA: It was unusual for a woman to write in the first place, so I guess writing made me feel liberated. But it is this kind of thinking, among other reasons, that made me publish my novels anonymously, under "By A Lady". It did feel quite liberating to announce that, but it still captures surprising responses that I do not wish to entertain.
B: *mumbles* I did NOT know about this By A Lady thingamajigs. I am the worst stalker in the world mimblewimdblekjalkfdkjf
JA: Excuse me?
B: Oh, I was just practicing my... Swahili. Anyway, what was the first novel you wrote?
JA: My first novel was called Lady Susan, an it is a short epistolary novel (novel written as a series of documents, i.e. letters). After that, I wrote Elinor and Marianne.
B: Would this be Sense and Sensibility in the future? (punny)
JA: Oh no, the original manuscript was lost. It inspired Sense and Sensibility, though.
B: I see. What did you write after?
JA: I then wrote First Impressions, which would soon be changed to Pride -
B: - and Prejudice! *squeal that could not possibly be human*
JA: Well, yes. And then I begun Sense and Sensibility. I wrote Northanger Abbey a year or two after, but I had a writing rut and did not publish any more novels until the year 1811, when I began writing Mansfield Park. In 1815, I finished writing Emma.
B: Are you currently writing anything right now?
JA: Well, yes. I think I am going to call this novel Persuasion.
B: Excellent choice! Wait, are you okay? I mean, are you all right? You look sick.
JA: It is all fine. I just feel a tad bit unwell.
B: Are you sure? We can pause the interview and resume when you are feeling better.
JA: It is all right! This is nothing I could not handle.
B: Okay...
JA: Do you have any more queries?
B: Please do tell us about Pride and Prejudice! Where I come from, it is your most popular novel :D
JA: It is also popular here!
B: Why did you change the title from First Impressions to Pride and Prejudice?
JA: In the beginning, First Impressions seemed appropriate because the plot was mainly about appearances of the characters. However, Pride and Prejudice turned out to be the better title.
B: It's actually the book of the month in the book club, actually.
JA: I am very flattered. Thank you.
B: Oh, and by the way, these are the actors and actresses who have played Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy in adaptations of your books. What do you think?
2005 (Keira Knightley and Matthew Macfadyen)
1995 (Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth)
1980 (Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul)
1940 (Greer Garson and Sir Lawrence Olivier)
JA: I am speechless. They are all so beautiful. I am glad! They fit their roles particularly well.
B: I know right?! They were all amazing. Hmm.. I think I am just about done. Is there anything you want to tell the readers..?
JA: Thank you for reading and appreciating my novels... and please read Persuasion when it comes out! I should probably invent the concept of pre-orders for people who cannot wait, but then... never mind. It is a trifling thing to do.
B: All right! I have to go now! Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me, Miss Austen! And I hope you meet your Mr. Darcy soon enough!
JA: You are very welcome. Much thanks to you as well.
*climbs into pianoforte, time travels back to the present, types everything, posts in Goodreads*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And that is it for tonight's (today's in JA's time) interview! That is roughly Jane Austen's life and works right there. I hope it gets you somewhat excited to start reading Pride and Prejudice, if you haven't yet! :D
Thank you, lovely lady Blue, for that wonderful interlude :) And good luck on your Swahili! *snickers*I would like to remind everyone that the reading plan officially starts tomorrow, Sept 27. I'll be posting some questions by noontime at the latest (GMT+8).
Until then: Happy reading!
DC and Bennard: Thank you!In other news, I saw this amusing article on 'Mr. Darcy's Guide to Wooing Women.' HAHA.
Blue: That was great, I imagined you and Jane Austen had the conversation. I read somewhere that her affair with Lefroy was only exaggerated like in the movie Becoming Jane but I can't prove it because I can't seem to find it now haha.
Phoebe wrote: "Blue: That was great, I imagined you and Jane Austen had the conversation. I read somewhere that her affair with Lefroy was only exaggerated like in the movie Becoming Jane but I can't prove it ..."
There are theories... but Lefroy himself admitted that he was once inlove with Jane... but it was a 'boyish love'. I still can't understand what that means though.
Plus, we can't hide the fact the he indeed named his first born after Austen. :D
Blue wrote: "Phoebe: I love that track too! That's the first thing I tried to learn after listening to the soundtrack :D I like Georgiana, Darcy's Letter, and that song when they danced at the Netherfield Ball :D"I found a Georgiana Piano Tutorial in YouTube. I don't hjave time to practice though :(
Done with the first 5 chapters, and I haven't enjoyed a bit of it. I hope to discover more and fall in love with it, like you guys do. :)I don't have any idea on how the story will go, since I have not seen the movie too.
Hello Aenna! :)Welcome everyone to the first day of the online discussion of our book-of-the-month, Pride and Prejudice!
Day 1: We start with the truth (Volume 1, Chapters 1-5)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
1. Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?
2. Do you already have a favorite family or person in the book so far? Do you think that there are still families or individuals today that act like those you’ve so far read about? Elaborate.
3. “Elizabeth Bennett had been obliged by the scarcity of gentlemen to sit down for two dances” (Chap 3). Explain this statement and its implications - historically and socially.
4. The word “pride” is readily mentioned in these pages. Concisely sum up the texts noted about the concept. Give your comments, if any.
5. Give yourself a pat in the back for actually starting to read Pride and Prejudice. Go you!
Vocabulary check: “fortnight”, “chaise and four”. Are there any other foreign words you’ve read about?
Trivia: The Victorian English ballroom and assembly room was the courting field upon which gentlemen and ladies on the marriage mart* could finally touch one another and spend some time conversing during their long sets, or ogle each other without seeming to be too forward or brash.
In principle: The master of the house would see that all the ladies danced; he would take notice particularly of those who appeared to be wall-flowers, and would see that they were invited to dance. But he would do this wholly unperceived, in order not to wound the self-esteem of the unfortunate ladies. Gentlemen, whom the master of the house requested to dance with these ladies, would be ready to accede to his wish, and even appear pleased at dancing with the lady recommended.
*For more info on this, check out Blue’s eloquent discourse with Jane Austen.
Friends, I went back to late 1817, and I found out that she died. When she said that she was feeling unwell, she really was sick. Her doctors diagnosed it to be Addison's disease, but then it has also been compared to Hodgkin's lymphoma. Medical teams today say it was bovine tuberculosis though :( She died on the 18th of July 1817, at the age of 41. This was the obituary published when she died:
She never got married (like her sister). Now to honor her, let us read Pride and Prejudice!!
Phoebe and Biena: Thank you! I read about those rumors as well, but I really suspect there must have been something between them for the Lefroy family to have felt threatened. Regardless of whether they had anything romantic or not, they must have been certainly very close :D (also, I wanted an excuse to fit James McAvoy there somewhere)Biena: Georgiana is fun to play! Had to practice the hand crossovers a lot though to avoid mistakes, haha!
@Blue: Capital! Capital!That was very amusing and informative, Lady Blue! I envy you. You actually met Austen in person.
Blue wrote: "Friends, I went back to late 1817, and I found out that she died. When she said that she was feeling unwell, she really was sick. Her doctors diagnosed it to be Addison's disease, but then it has a..."A very short obituary to such an amazing and talented lady. She died so young, too.
Blue: That was a fun read! I was about to comment on the *delicious* James McAvoy insertion but that would include giggling, hysterical screaming and just downright insane fangirling.
BLUE!!! That was awes0me!
*beams proudly* You guys, this is so awesome. And we just started. *mental note to reserve an extra cupcake for Blue and DC on discussion day*I didn't have plans to read this again, but because this is shaping up to be a very good discussion, I will probably reread a bit. I forgot how short the chapters are, and well, it's not that hard to read anymore. (Good luck with reading this and Little Women at the same time -- I hope I don't mix them up :)) )
Happy first P&P reading day!
yes discussion now up! gustong gusto ko na talga mag-vent dito haha!
Blue wrote: "DC and Bennard: Thank you!In other news, I saw this amusing article on 'Mr. Darcy's Guide to Wooing Women.' HAHA."
The "Playboy of Pemberley"? Hahaha
DC wrote: "Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?"
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."
Two words: Marriage Market
I've a lot to say but I'm not really sure how these discussions go (apart from, that they are much fun).
Blue wrote: "Friends, I went back to late 1817, and I found out that she died. When she said that she was feeling unwell, she really was sick. Her doctors diagnosed it to be Addison's disease, but then it has a..."> I had the feeling something of the sort would've happened when I read that she was sick while you were interviewing her :(
Cary wrote: "yes discussion now up! gustong gusto ko na talga mag-vent dito haha!"
> Haha, yes! It's time :D Go forth, gush out, nitpick on the book! [But please use spoiler tags if you're to note a scene not yet unfolding in the current chapters for discussion :)]
Dante wrote: "The "Playboy of Pemberley"? Hahaha"
> Haha, is he really? :o Let's find out! :D
Pau wrote: "Two words: Marriage Market
I've a lot to say but I'm not really sure how these discussions go (apart from, that they are much fun)."
> Hi Pau! :) The questions are for you to answer, ponder about, debate about. That's what the discussion's about! Pour forth your opinion and don't be afraid! We'd love to hear what you think :D Go ahead and tell us what you have to say!
Blue: That was fun! But I see what you did there. :PIt's just the first day so I'll try to keep my answers short. (Para hindi ako tamarin on the following days. :D)
1. First sentence:
"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.
Not true or dated. He could be someone afraid of committment, or a greedy bastard who only wants to make himself richer, or gay, etc. In our time, it could beam anything.
2. Mrs. Bennett. She's such a character. If there will be a Real Housewives of Loungbourn, she'll be in it.
3. The sentence could only imply that there's a larger population of women than men. It will explain why the women and Loungbourn treat marriage such a... competitive sport.
4. There's one remark from a character I am intrigued about:
"If I were as rich as Mr. Darcy, I should not care how proud I was."
Should someone's position be directly proportional to how proud of himself should be? I know Pride could not be quantitated but just for the sake of the argument let's say that Rich Person A and Poor Person B has the same Proud Level of 10. Usually, people try to justify Rich Person A while call Poor Person B a hypocrite. Does power and wealth give a person an excuse to be so proud of himself? Is Pride generally a bad thing?
So sorry for raising more questions than answering. You can ignore me. I just want to get it out there. :)
5. Done. Thanks. :)
Hi! I just started reading this and I must say the Bennets' are such an individuals. And hoping that I will in any way be like them characters in the discussion. My first time to join a discussion and I'm a little lost. (>_<)
4. Pride is a wondrous thing itself. It is an overview to something you have achieved or acquired. To what extent and how you show your being proud of, will be the basis if it's a good or bad thing. It is merely some reflection of the bigger part of you.
Yay! Thanks, everyone! Glad you liked my sojourn into the past ;) Okay, I think I should start rereading P&P myself. Whew.
My thoughts on the guide questions:1. The first sentence is probably a summation of the institution of marriage, which is primarily for money or for position, during the Victorian era.
2. My favorite character so far is Mrs. Bennet. She is probably the best example of the gossipy and nosy mother.
3. The sentence could imply the importance of the dances during the Victorian era since it really was a very social era. Events such as balls is a way for a girl to meet a future husband in order to improve her prospect for a bright future. Lizzy sitting down for two dances may imply that no one is interested in her and that she may be headed for a life of spinstership.
4. The subject of pride is given meaning by one of the characters as one's view of himself/herself. It's not necessarily a bad thing especially if your pride comes from a valid source (e.g. money, status) and people would just have to deal with it. It only becomes wrong if your pride stems from something that you wish you have but don't (i.e. being proud of your imaginary status despite being uneducated or poor to the extent that you will shun people of the same status as you are).
Yey! Done for the day. Bukas naman!:)
Just earlier today, I was thinking of the phrase "universally acknowledged". You think Yoda acknowledges this truth too? :o #randompostisrandom
To share my thoughts:1. I find this more of an assumption towards single man. He was expected to be in search of a single woman to be his wife, whereas it's the other way around. Women in that era were expected to get married, thus the society tends to "imagine" that any single man with good fortune that he must be in want of a wife.
2. Not a favorite in a positive way. I'm looking forward to discover more of Mrs. Bennet. I would love to hate her. I could sense how excited she is to have her daughter marry a rich man, and it made her annoying.
3. The statement sounds like a justification to Elizabeth's situation. In a social gathering, it's never good to be seen being a wallflower. It's a gathering where men and women are expected to mingle and find prospective partners, it's not so wonderful not to be danced. Much more, spending time sitting for two dances!
4. "His pride does not offend me so much as pride often does, because there is an excuse for it."
I agree to a degree on the statement, "there is an excuse for it." Not that anyone with "an excuse" has the priviledge to be proud, but because society somehow find it acceptable for someone with "an excuse" to be proud. Sounds wrong, definitely wrong, but I guess that's how it works.
Thank you all for your responses! And welcome Rad Ryan! :) Don't worry, it's just the first day! You'll get the hang of it :DHah, Mrs. Bennett seems to be a favorite so far. Interesting choice.
Aaron Vincent wrote: "Should someone's position be directly proportional to how proud of himself should be? I know Pride could not be quantitated but just for the sake of the argument let's say that Rich Person A and Poor Person B has the same Proud Level of 10. Usually, people try to justify Rich Person A while call Poor Person B a hypocrite. Does power and wealth give a person an excuse to be so proud of himself? Is Pride generally a bad thing? "
> You are making me beg the question: "What is pride?" :) I could say that it varies from person to person, but what about your part? How would you personally define "pride"? What do you think should give you this "pride"?
Rad Ryan wrote: "Pride is a wondrous thing itself. It is an overview to something you have achieved or acquired. To what extent and how you show your being proud of, will be the basis if it's a good or bad thing. It is merely some reflection of the bigger part of you."
> You say "basis of a good or bad thing". Does this mean that if I am proud to have killed a person, it makes it good? Or bad?
Bennard wrote: "Lizzy sitting down for two dances may imply that no one is interested in her and that she may be headed for a life of spinstership."
> You seem to imply people's regard for her, and not her regard for other people. Do you think that her own personal choice may have something in the matter, or is it a moot point?
Bennard wrote: "It's not necessarily a bad thing especially if your pride comes from a valid source (e.g. money, status) and people would just have to deal with it. It only becomes wrong if your pride stems from something that you wish you have but don't (i.e. being proud of your imaginary status despite being uneducated or poor to the extent that you will shun people of the same status as you are)."
> But "valid sources" are relative, are they not?
AennA wrote: "1. I find this more of an assumption towards single man. He was expected to be in search of a single woman to be his wife, whereas it's the other way around. Women in that era were expected to get married, thus the society tends to "imagine" that any single man with good fortune that he must be in want of a wife."
> Good point!
AennA wrote: "4. I agree to a degree on the statement, "there is an excuse for it." Not that anyone with "an excuse" has the priviledge to be proud, but because society somehow find it acceptable for someone with "an excuse" to be proud. Sounds wrong, definitely wrong, but I guess that's how it works. "
> Personally, do you think that there IS a valid excuse to be "proud"? Rad Ryan mentioned pride with regards to something one has done or acquired. Would you think that this is a valid reason for being "proud"?
DC: Oo nga pala. I forgot that Lizzy has a disdain for such things.:D I completely overlooked that fact.On the relativeness of pride, I think it is relative but, if we follow one of the character's definition of pride which is how we perceive our self, I think the relativeness of the source of pride does not matter.
DC wrote:"Personally, do you think that there IS a valid excuse to be "proud"? Rad Ryan mentioned pride with regards to something one has done or acquired. Would you think that this is a valid reason for being "proud"?Not necessarily valid, but there are acceptable (I would like to consider valid and acceptable with different definitions) reasons / excuse to be proud. I agree that it has something to do with accomplishments. Each of us has it's own "proud" moments, which adds up to the pride we carry within ourselves.
1. The sentence is a magnifier of the many ugly faces of a patriarchal culture. Women were expected to be wives while men were expected to have one; that a wife was the ultimate kind of possession men should have and a man with good fortune an ultimate means of women to be well off. It was (and still) a culture where marriage is what made everyone normal - even admirable - in the eyes of the crowd.
2. I would say Mrs. Bennett not because she has an intriguing personality but because she represents the "universally acknowledged" mother in a patriarchal culture during the Victorian Era. She is a culture and a flaw that needs to be looked at.
3. The sentence has many implications but I would like to focus on the way women should act during Elizabeth's era. Lizzy is not supposed to choose a partner, rather she should patiently wait for a gentleman interested enough to ask her for a dance. A woman back then lacks liberty to pick a partner of her own liking.
4. Mary explained that pride could be validated by having a good fortune; that Mr. Darcy is capable of being proud because he has something to be proud of. Others often think that pride could be worn with certain acceptability by people who achieved much more. For me, a Mr. Darcy should not be excused of any wrongdoing/ill treatment to others just because they have high social status or good wealth or higher education. I'm not saying that it is wrong to be proud of something but I find it intolerable when this pride turned into arrogance.
2. I would say Mrs. Bennett not because she has an intriguing personality but because she represents the "universally acknowledged" mother in a patriarchal culture during the Victorian Era. She is a culture and a flaw that needs to be looked at.
3. The sentence has many implications but I would like to focus on the way women should act during Elizabeth's era. Lizzy is not supposed to choose a partner, rather she should patiently wait for a gentleman interested enough to ask her for a dance. A woman back then lacks liberty to pick a partner of her own liking.
4. Mary explained that pride could be validated by having a good fortune; that Mr. Darcy is capable of being proud because he has something to be proud of. Others often think that pride could be worn with certain acceptability by people who achieved much more. For me, a Mr. Darcy should not be excused of any wrongdoing/ill treatment to others just because they have high social status or good wealth or higher education. I'm not saying that it is wrong to be proud of something but I find it intolerable when this pride turned into arrogance.
1. Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?I think the first sentence should be rephrased as “universal assumption”. It is remembered that Victorian England was promiscuous. Why would a single man blessed with fortune merely settle for a wife when he can have all the mistresses he may have? Unless, he was forced into it.
But a single man who obtains himself an estate (or plans to) was a different matter. He was already romanticizing the idea of a wife.
Yet, both ideas are not applicable to date.
2. Do you already have a favorite family or person in the book so far? Do you think that there are still families or individuals today that act like those you’ve so far read about? Elaborate.
Yes, I like Mr. Bennet. He outwits his wife by a mile. He can see, not merely look. And his wife’s nerve did not dull his humor.
There is still plenty of “Ms Bingley” in these present times –envious and spiteful.
3. “Elizabeth Bennett had been obliged by the scarcity of gentlemen to sit down for two dances” (Chap 3). Explain this statement and its implications - historically and socially.
The scarcity of male, I think, has nothing to do with the “male-female ratio” in any ball. The presence of legible men, may it be 5 or 20, was a huge reason for every mother to make sure that their daughters are present in whosever ball it was. It was considered, then, a great offence if the host had forgotten to invite a family with an unmarried daughter to the ball. So, no matter how many single male was present, they will still be outnumbered by the seeking unmarried women. And yes. due to their scarcity, if an eligible male happened to dance with an unmarried woman more than once in a ball, it will be the talk of the town the following day.
4. The word “pride” is readily mentioned in these pages. Concisely sum up the texts noted about the concept. Give your comments, if any.
The text, in simple words, meant that it was okay to be proud if you have valid reasons to be. But I believe there is a huge difference between pride and conceit. Having reasons to be proud does not give a person authority to look down on people –to pass judgment whether they are worthy of attention or not. Remember, the Lord was crucified between two thieves but he didn’t squirm from them.
I have read more than the required chapters of the day, do punish me later. ;p
1) The first line was a fallacy, “universally acknowledge” it said but there were no evidences and merely a supposition with no premises. So it only showed that it was what they believe in at that time.
It said that a man who almost had everything will not be complete without a wife. It was a foreshadowing of the love story. But in the other way, it was stating the act of marrying because of fortune.
2) My favorite character is Mr. Bennet. I like his sense of humor and sarcasm like in this line:
(view spoiler)
I’m also in awe on how he met Mrs. Bennet and how they perfectly matched. His wife is too aggressive while he is too possessive. And when it comes to matchmaking and the like, he prefers to give the whole stage to his wife. It was also shown that he is a good father especially to Elizabeth for she was his favorite.
3) It was necessary or gentleman-like of men to dance with women in social gatherings. As a way of being civil, dancing is a way to socialize and know other people. As for what happened to Elizabeth, it was implied that Mr. Darcy was not a gentleman to offer a dance with her.
4) Mary had said that pride is self-regard while vanity concerns what others think of you.
These are different things but often used synonymously.
And I think that pride most likely goes with ego. An example was when Elizabeth said
(view spoiler)
1. My first thought is that it shouldn't have those commas! What awful punctuation! Haha. Anyway, it can be a bit hard to contend with something that declares itself "universally acknowledged," but I'm glad to report that the comic irony of this famous opening sentence is not lost on me. It claims that a single, wealthy man must be in want of a wife, and yet not a page later are we introduced to a woman who seems to want nothing more than to meet single, wealth men that can make wives out of her daughters.2. My favorite character is Elizabeth Bennet because Keira Knightley. Sorry. :P (I hear Keira's voice in my mind's ear every time I read Elizabeth's lines.)
3. Elizabeth had to "sit down for two dances" ostensibly because there were too few men in the assembly and that not one of them cared to ask her to dance. But if Lizzy indeed has, according to Mr. Bennet, "something more of quickness than her sisters" and none of their silliness and ignorance, it could very well be that she was just unimpressed by those who did.
4. It's quite all right to have pride provided that you have the "excuse" to go with it. Notice that rather than "reason," a catch-all justification for an action of any nature, the word used is "excuse," something put forward to justify an action that is deemed a fault or indiscretion. Does this mean that pride is, in essence, really a shortcoming?
—
I enjoyed these preliminary chapters very, very much. Looking forward to the succeeding ones. For now, though, The Casual Vacancy beckons. :D
Okay time to answer the questions.1. Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?
It actually reminds of me a friend who told me that she dropped this book because of that opening sentence. Personally, I think during that time, it makes sense. every man is expected to get married for it is the norm of the society.
2. Do you already have a favorite family or person in the book so far? Do you think that there are still families or individuals today that act like those you’ve so far read about? Elaborate.
My favorite characters are Elizabeth, Mr. Bennet, and yes, mr. Darcy. I like elizabeth's character. I always have this inclination towards women of strong character. I also like her father, Mr. Bennet. Austen described him as "so odd a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humor, reserve and caprice." I find his character cool, the silent type but full of authority. I actually imagine that elizabeth is a papa's girl.
Lastly, yes, I like the bad boy-type character of Mr darcy. I don't know, I always have thing for bad guys LOL.
3. “Elizabeth Bennett had been obliged by the scarcity of gentlemen to sit down for two dances” (Chap 3). Explain this statement and its implications - historically and socially.
It may imply two things: 1. There are really more women that men in their place that time; and
2. elizabeth is kind of choosy and she can't find any more men of her taste
4. The word “pride” is readily mentioned in these pages. Concisely sum up the texts noted about the concept. Give your comments, if any.
It's really interesting how pride was discussed in this chapter.
" Pride is a very common failing; that human nature is very prone to it."
"Pride and vanity are two different things. pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity of what we would have others think of us"
I think it's true. pride is really part of human nature. whether we admit it or not, there was certainly a point that pride has manifested in our life. As to the question of whether is it bad, I personally think yes, but Im not going to elaborate on that yet.
5. Give yourself a pat in the back for actually starting to read Pride and Prejudice. Go you!
well yes, im really glad Im reading this again.
1. Initial reaction? An exaggerated eyeroll. Because that statement is the press release. The real message is that women are expected to get married, preferably to wealthy men. Or maybe it's that women WANT to get married, preferably to wealthy men. 'Expected to' or 'want to' - I have to give more thought as to which one is more correct. 2. At this point, I do not have a particular favorite. Although I sort of like Mr. Bennett because I find him the least abrasive. Mrs. Bennett was the highlight of these first 5 chapters, though. And yes, I suppose there still a number of people who think and act like her. Things are more loose now, but I think there are still a number of mothers who are still governed by the traditional mindset of making sure their daughters get married to well-off gentlemen.
3. Simply put, these gatherings served as venues for people to meet and possibly find a suitable partner. It reminds me of those fairytales where the prince holds a ball so he can find a bride among the ladies in attendance. (Cinderella, is that you?)
4. I noticed that the word “pride” was mentioned in conjunction with Mr. Darcy and the fuss that surrounds him. The ladies see him as a proud man, but it's really more of a superiority complex of some kind if you ask me. Being proud and being a d-bag are two very different things, pwede ba.
5. Yay! :D
1. Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?It's one of the most amusing opening sentences I've read in a novel and it's one of the reasons why I got interested in reading it.
2. Do you already have a favorite family or person in the book so far?
Elizabeth Bennet, of course. But many of them are likable: Jane, Mr. Bennet, Mr. Bingley, and Mr. Darcy.
Do you think that there are still families or individuals today that act like those you’ve so far read about? Elaborate.
I think that part of the appeal and success of this novel is that the characters are so easy to identify with. Generations of readers could relate with the story because the characters are timeless.
3. “Elizabeth Bennett had been obliged by the scarcity of gentlemen to sit down for two dances” (Chap 3). Explain this statement and its implications - historically and socially.
I'm having difficulty seeing what it's meaning and implications are. All I see is the surface: men and women were gentlemen and ladies in Austen's time, or they were expected to conduct themselves in respectable ways. They had many codes of conduct to observe, and one is not very free to behave as he or she wishes.
4. The word “pride” is readily mentioned in these pages. Concisely sum up the texts noted about the concept. Give your comments, if any.
I think pride here simply refers to a person's attitude due to his or her perceived self-worth. Mr. Darcy apparently have too much of it. Perhaps it stems from his considerably high circumstance in life.
5. Give yourself a pat in the back for actually starting to read Pride and Prejudice. Go you!
*Makes an inaudible man-squeal*
Hmm, I should use Angus' previous rule of a "no follow-up question to a follow-up question" xD Also, considering the title's PRIDE and Prejudice, we would probably be talking more of this "pride" later in the chapters :) *sings Circle of Lifeeeeeee* #cornyBennard wrote: "DC: Oo nga pala. I forgot that Lizzy has a disdain for such things.:D I completely overlooked that fact."
>>> Truth be told, it was a trick question ;) The best and prettiest lady dancers were constantly sought out for then, and it was the men who should be introduced to the females & not the other way around (this was a sort of etiquette that prevailed). Kate also mentions something of the sort in her answer for #3 :D But let's see. Maybe a happening in the future chapters may prove you correct :)
AennA wrote: "Not necessarily valid, but there are acceptable (I would like to consider valid and acceptable with different definitions) reasons / excuse to be proud. "
>>> I suppose it's how you carry on about being proud then? How you personally act on it?
Kate wrote: "She is a culture and a flaw that needs to be looked at. "
>>> I first read this is a something of a medical condition xD Haha!
Kate wrote: "Mary explained that pride could be validated by having a good fortune; that Mr. Darcy is capable of being proud because he has something to be proud of... I'm not saying that it is wrong to be proud of something but I find it intolerable when this pride turned into arrogance. "
>>> In the book, however, they seem to disdain Darcy for his "pride". I believe they thought him arrogant, really. Is it merely on account of his good fortune?
Louize wrote: "Why would a single man blessed with fortune merely settle for a wife when he can have all the mistresses he may have? Unless, he was forced into it."
>>> Haha, interesting note! London itself was quite known as a hotbed for "loose" things back in those days. And I like the answer of a wife romanticized :) (just the thought of it, mind you!)
Louize wrote: "Yes, I like Mr. Bennet. He outwits his wife by a mile. He can see, not merely look. And his wife’s nerve did not dull his humor."
>>> I like him too :) However, I felt that there's something off about his attitude... But this may discussed as we go further into the book :D
Louize wrote: "Having reasons to be proud does not give a person authority to look down on people –to pass judgment whether they are worthy of attention or not."
>>> I believe you meant this as a personal basis. However, Mr Darcy, in the book, was called proud by other people, yes? What can you say about the attitude of, for example, the Bennett family towards him?
Phoebe wrote: "But in the other way, it was stating the act of marrying because of fortune."
>>> Haha, I like this answer. The follow-up to this will probably be made several days from now, as it seems to answer another question I have in mind, but for a future date xD
Phoebe wrote: "I’m also in awe on how he met Mrs. Bennet and how they perfectly matched."
>>> Mrs Bennett seems to be exasperated about him though, doesn't she? [Also, I think I have no more follow-up questions for you. Nice answers! :)]
Aldrin wrote: "It claims that a single, wealthy man must be in want of a wife, and yet not a page later are we introduced to a woman who seems to want nothing more than to meet single, wealth men that can make wives out of her daughters."
>>> Haha, glad to see the irony wasn't lost on you! Astute observation there :D [Also: Really? Keira? Hahaha!]
Aldrin wrote: "Notice that rather than "reason," a catch-all justification for an action of any nature, the word used is "excuse," something put forward to justify an action that is deemed a fault or indiscretion. Does this mean that pride is, in essence, really a shortcoming?"
>>> DC the non-moderator says: Looking at what the others had to say about Mr Darcy, it does seem to be that - a shortcoming. However, Phoebe mentions Lizzy's line about a mortified pride, so perhaps it was about pride - and how one oversteps another's pride.
>>> What about you? Do you personally believe that it is a shortcoming, this pride?
Cary wrote: "Lastly, yes, I like the bad boy-type character of Mr darcy. I don't know, I always have thing for bad guys LOL. "
>>> Hmmm! Bad boy-type, you say? I suppose we will see more of the character of Mr Darcy as we go along to determine whether he IS a legit bad boy :D [Also, your answer for #3 has been mentioned and discussed by others, so I think I'll pass on asking for further about it :)]
Cary wrote: "I think it's true. pride is really part of human nature. whether we admit it or not, there was certainly a point that pride has manifested in our life. As to the question of whether is it bad, I personally think yes, but Im not going to elaborate on that yet."
>>> Thank you for noting down the exact words! :D Okay then, we'll look forward to your opinion :)
Mae wrote: " 'Expected to' or 'want to' - I have to give more thought as to which one is more correct."
>>> There are more pages to come, so maybe if we read further on it will help you decide :D
Mae wrote: "It reminds me of those fairytales where the prince holds a ball so he can find a bride among the ladies in attendance. (Cinderella, is that you?)"
>>> Hmm, interesting. Especially if you look at the others' answers regarding the scarcity of men and all that. Good thought!
Mae wrote: "Being proud and being a d-bag are two very different things, pwede ba."
>>> Le gasp! Do you think, then, that Darcy was trollin' those people? Or is there a legit source for his being a proud d-bag?
Dante wrote: "It's one of the most amusing opening sentences I've read in a novel and it's one of the reasons why I got interested in reading it."
>>> Haha, cool! Personally speaking, I had a prof once who only read the first sentence of a book to decide whether she'd like to read it or not :D
Dante wrote: "I think that part of the appeal and success of this novel is that the characters are so easy to identify with. Generations of readers could relate with the story because the characters are timeless."
>>> I like this answer :) [Also, like Phoebe, no more follow-up questions for you. Good job on the answers!]
Thank you everyone for indulging in answering the first set of questions :) Future commenter, if you haven’t yet answered the questions and want to answer one and/or all of them, please go ahead and do so! Don’t be shy :)Now, let’s move on to the second day!
Day 2: Let’s all begin freely (Book 1, Chapters 6-8)
What happened in these chapters: (view spoiler)
1. What does the following quote mean for that period? What does it mean for you? “If a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him.” (Chap. 6)
2. [History] Why did a bunch of redcoats (“officers”) come to Meryton?
3. What are your thoughts about the maneuver of Mrs. Bennett making Jane go on horseback, as opposed to Lizzy going on foot? Would you have done the same in either’s
4. “I never saw such a woman. I never saw such capacity, and taste, and application, as you describe, united.” (Chap. 8) While Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst both cried out against the injustice of Elizabeth’s implied doubt, do you think you have ever truly seen such a woman as Darcy describes here? What do you think of Darcy’s idea of an accomplished woman? What does it implicate for those times?
5. [Random WTF] Talk about Darcy’s disgust / attraction. Avoid using words with the letter “a”.
Vocabulary check: “entail”. Are there any other foreign words you’ve read about?
Trivia:
Etiquette for men: If the ladies of the group are of the formally educated sort, compliment them by channeling the conversation into areas of their developing expertise. If they are not, avoid political, scientific, and commercial subjects. Stick only to subjects that might interest them. If you're not sure--hope there's some other gentleman in the crowd that'll take the leap for you. If it's a mixed bag of people, create a distraction, and run.
Etiquette for men: If she's on foot, so must you be. Dismount. If you know her well enough to address her, take no half-measures! Turn right around and walk beside her, even if she's headed in the opposite direction. When you've spoken your piece, you may take your leave.
1 mile = 1.609 km. Lizzy walked 3 miles, or something close to a 5km marathon.
Check out the previous day’s questions here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
DC: In the book, however, they seem to disdain Darcy for his "pride". I believe they thought him arrogant, really. Is it merely on account of his good fortune?"
Yes, it seems that way. I'm not good at explaining things but what I wanted to say is that for Ms. Lucas to justify Mr. Darcy's pride says a lot about the difference of a prideful person with a 'a back-up' from a person who hasn't. The former, at least, can garner an ounce of reconsideration. To answer your question, I would say that it isn't. I think Mr. Darcy' pride is hardwired and not merely stem from his good fortune. If Mr. Darcy was born on the other side of the fence, I think he would find another way to act prideful. But that's just my opinion :)
Yes, it seems that way. I'm not good at explaining things but what I wanted to say is that for Ms. Lucas to justify Mr. Darcy's pride says a lot about the difference of a prideful person with a 'a back-up' from a person who hasn't. The former, at least, can garner an ounce of reconsideration. To answer your question, I would say that it isn't. I think Mr. Darcy' pride is hardwired and not merely stem from his good fortune. If Mr. Darcy was born on the other side of the fence, I think he would find another way to act prideful. But that's just my opinion :)
Day 1: We start with the truth (Volume 1, Chapters 1-5)1. Reread the first sentence of this book. What are your thoughts about it?
-Eh, I cannot agree with it. Such a man can also be a miser who is in want of more fortune.
2. Do you already have a favorite family or person in the book so far? Do you think that there are still families or individuals today that act like those you’ve so far read about? Elaborate.
-Favorite is Elizabeth Bennett. This is a conscious choice because I have to root for our female protagonist. Heh. I think there are still families who act like the Bennetts, particularly their practice of looking for husbands and wives. I suppose this is still prevalent in traditional Chinese and Moslem families?
3. “Elizabeth Bennett had been obliged by the scarcity of gentlemen to sit down for two dances” (Chap 3). Explain this statement and its implications - historically and socially.
-Social implication: she's a wallflower. Historical: uhm, I didn't know that not dancing at a ball has implications on this aspect.
4. The word “pride” is readily mentioned in these pages. Concisely sum up the texts noted about the concept. Give your comments, if any.
-Pride is discussed on chapter 5. Pride is our opinion of ourself, according to Mary. I agree with her. A lot of people mistake "pride" from "proud". We have the common consonants to blame.
5. Give yourself a pat in the back for actually starting to read Pride and Prejudice. Go you!
-Patty-pat-pat!
Vocabulary check: chuse, neice, shew. Huh?
DC wrote: "Thank you everyone for indulging in answering the first set of questions :) Future commenter, if you haven’t yet answered the questions and want to answer one and/or all of them, please go ahead an..."I love the trivia.. I just wish guys of today still do the same etiquette. oh, how i love austen's time haha
Day 1: Chapters 1-51. Not really but most likely. Hence reality shows like The Millionaire Matchmaker, The Bachelor etc. etc.
2. Elizabeth Bennet of course, Jane and Mr. Darcy next. I think matchmaking is still seen in Filipino Chinese communities.
3. Implications? I don't know really. Maybe the men thought she's too smart for them? Or maybe she, herself didn't show interest in meeting the men?
4. I liked that they did a discourse and dissected the meaning of Pride. I never really thought much about the difference of Pride and Vanilty. As to the "right to be proud", sure, but not to the point of rudeness and conceit.
5. This is a re-read so I have already given myself a pat on the back the first time I've read this especially since I don't do well with classics. But I will still oblige myself another this time. *pat pat* And this is my first group discussion too! *pats back again* :)
Day 2: 1. What does the following quote mean for that period? What does it mean for you? “If a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him.”
For that period? I do not think it has different meanings back then compare to how it is now. It applies to any generation, I guess. Women are still not socially accepted to reveal more than she should about what she feels for a man.
The quote is implying one simple message: If a woman would not do anything more than just sending hints to the one she likes / loves on what she feels, she is doomed to lose him in the process.
At present, I still get to hear people giving that sort of advice, and upon reading the book I cannot help but snort and agree with Elizabeth, for we have the same thought on this matter, she said: (view spoiler)
2. [History] Why did a bunch of redcoats (“officers”) come to Meryton?
Uhmn. Because there is a mail order bride in Meryton? No. KIDDING! No idea. :D
3. What are your thoughts about the maneuver of Mrs. Bennett making Jane go on horseback, as opposed to Lizzy going on foot? Would you have done the same in either’s steed stead?
On Jane, it is obviously a plan to let Jane spend the night over at Bingley's. As for Lizzy, I am not sure if her mother also found it an opportunity for Lizzy to be on the same situation with Jane. I just find Lizzy's persistence to attend to her sister's needs, remarkable.
I haven't started on chapter 8, so I will just go back to answer the rest of the questions. :D
For the follow-up Q.
DC wrote: I suppose it's how you carry on about being proud then? How you personally act on it?
I haven't thought about this aspect of my personality, until you asked. :)) I think my being proud only happens in a brief moment, until my sense of accomplishment fades out. My being pride-ful tho' stays longer. It is the product of my accumulated proud moments. Being proud requires some sort of tangible or recognizable accomplishments, whereas pride comes from inner self. I would like to claim I am not a proud person, but I am full of pride when it comes to myself. Ako na!
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Historian (other topics)The Beautiful and Damned (other topics)
The Historian (other topics)
Pride and Prejudice (other topics)
The Perks of Being a Wallflower (other topics)
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Aldrin: I had second thoughts when I got a hold of the DVD so I left it. And now, I regret it.
Cary: Same here, it's my first classic book ;)
Rhena: I'll give you another one :D
(view spoiler)[