"The Eye of the World" Final Thoughts *Spoilers Untagged*

[Kim]

What are your final thoughts? I loved this book when I first read it, I immediately dove into the subsequent books. My dislike of the series came much later.

[Rob]

This is still one of my favorite books. WoT was all I read for a year or two (at a time when I was reading maybe 5 or 6 books a year).

The middle of this series dragged for me, but the ending was great and lived up to my enjoyment of this book despite being finished by Brandon Sanderson.

One of these years I'd like to reread at least most of this series, and especially this book.

[Sandi]

I really liked this book when I first read it. After rereading it this month I found I still liked it but the parallels with the LOTR in this first book drove me a little bit crazy. Those issues settled out in subsequent books, where other annoyances began to gnaw and I gave up on the series. Now that time has passed, I am now trying to re-read the complete series and see if my opinions have changed. I have just finished the second book and found I enjoyed it a bit more, even though I find I get very frustrated with the boneheaded characters sometimes. But then again, if I did not care about the characters and the story, I probably would not get so upset.

[Coralie]

I just wish someone had told me that it was a young adult book. Then I might have been prepared for the unrelieved teenage male point of view and the way no one actually died. Epic fantasy is not my favourite genre and I am not sufficiently interested to continue with the series.

[Marin]

The YA part put me off as well, as well as the length of the book, which could have been compressed. The whole chase to Caemlyn became stale after yet another narrow escape.

My friends who did read the entire series frequently pointed out that the latter books are average to bad, and I can see the seeds for that planted in this one. But even if I hadn't know this, I doubt I would have bothered with the next novel.

Finally, the plot uses several devices I personally loathe in fantasy, but due to the age of this book I won't hold it against it much. It's just not for me.

[Phrynne]

I didn't think it was YA at all. And the teenage boys do grow up as things proceed:) The books don't get any shorter though.

[Adam]

Eye of the World is one of the last books I read as a reader. I think it's an extremely effective book because it creates a World that is readily imagined. Three things stand out about it to my time addled recollection:

i) Descriptions tend to be graphic and immersive. Don't hold me to this, but I think descriptions frequently have a sense of motion, which reinforces the feeling that the World being described is alive.

"Clusters of pots clattered and banged as the peddler's wagon rumbled over the heavy timbers of the Wagon Bridge." (Orbit 2004 reprint p.32)

"His cowl, torn and stiff with dirt, swung back and forth as if [he was] searching for something, or listening." (Orbit 2004 reprint p.589)


ii) The characters are unchallenging; their personalities are quickly discerned and none of those I recall have moral ambiguity. The unequivocal goodness of the heroes generates strong emotional investment in the characters, but it also hinders their complexity. I think this makes the story more accessible, but as a fan, who has already bought emotionally into the work, I miss complex personality, subjective morality in the point-of-view characters, and the conflicts that these create.

iii) I enjoyed reading it. For the first time, that would be nearly a quarter of century ago. I still think Eye of the World is a very good work, but I think it's too simplified. When I think of great characters, superb language, or intriguing fantasy settings I don't think of particular examples from Eye of the World ( or the rest of WoT), but when I think of an ensemble of good elements creating a whole which works then Eye of the World does comes to mind.

[Bruce]

This is my first time reading Eye of the World, and I haven't read the entire series, but I'm sensing parallels between a male Aes Sedai and a male Ben Gesserit in the Dune series by Frank Herbert. Did anyone else see that, or am I reading too much into the first book?

[Adam]

Bruce wrote: "... sensing parallels between a male Aes Sedai and a male Ben Gesserit...."

Considering the popularity of Dune, there may well have been influence from the Bene Gesserit (BG) in the concept of the Aes Sedai (AS).

There's already lot in common between the BG sisterhood and the female AS. The Kwisatz Haderach (KH) carries most of those traits as well as possessing premonition and other memory abilities. However I think the differences between the male AS and the KH are much greater than with their female counterparts.

There are some significant differences between the AS & BG, the following reddit page has a comparison of significant traits between the AS & BG (its not comprehensive though [e.g. The very different objectives, BG melange addiction, sexual talents & imprinting...are not given]):
http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comme...

The male AS are developed a little further during the rest of the WoT series. To avoid spoilers it might be better to wait until you finish the series to discuss the male AS. You will find plenty of series spoilers if you start reading about the male AS.

[Silvio]

This wasn't a book I enjoyed much. My most distinct memory is of how various things seemed like chunks of real history with some names changed (Sons of Light/the Inquisition especially).

[Veronika KaoruSaionji]

I LOVED this book and I want to know whole story, so I will read all continuations (when they were translated into Czech - now is only 8 first of them).
Fantasy writer Andrzej Sapkowski named 85 the best fantasy books from 1900-2000 and WoT is there at the top, aside LotR). After reading first book, I mean that AS had right.
I love wolfes and I was sad that they have so bad image in LotR and many fantasy books, but there in WoT wolfes are friends. I believe that this fact can be inspiration for positive view to wolfes in Martin´s Game of Thrones, Kay´s Under Heaven or Ryan´s Bloodsong. :o)
Female succession to the throne (Queen, not King) was inspiration for Flewelling´s fantasy world (Nightrunners and so on).
Various songs were inspiration for similar theme in Game of Thrones and in Rothfuss´s Name of the Wind, gleeman Thom Merrillin was inspiration Brett´s Warded man series.
I believe that I can to find more facts that inspirated later fantasy writers. :o)
The only female witches is motive used from real wicca, or old English witchcraft - magic was 1) the one from Earth only for women (witches - common magic) or 2) the one from Heaven only for men (mags). No man can be witch and no woman can be mag. But at the beginning of 20. century there was "male magic revolution" - men wanted to use Earth magic, too! And they won. :o) Later could women to use Heaven magic, too. Also now is in the magic no gender restrictions. But this male fight for common magic was strong theme in real history and big inspiration for lovers of the magic (and very weird thing for modern men, that in history men something couldn´t).
Dark One is simply Devil in Christianity. Tolkien was Christian, too, but his Dark One was Melkor/Morgoth in Sillmarilion, not Sauron (which was just Melkor´s weak servant)in LotR. By Jordan, Dark One is Devil in his whole power.
Witches in history were accussed that they had served to Devil, but they had feared Devil aswell and tried to fight against him, too.
Children of the Light was inspired by many Christian orders and men (the Inquisition, Templars and German Knights, witch hunters and so on)who hated witches and believed in The Only (their) Truth. It was inspiration for similar theme in Ryan´s Bloodsong, but by Ryan is the more sensitive used (main hero himself is "Child of the Light", but with great sympathy for innocent "dark ones" and he seeks the real truth).
I enjoyed EoW very much and I believe thatI will love continuations, too.

[Michelle]

Yes, I see we're split about 30/70 not/loving it.

I wasn't so enamoured with it. I found it overlong and the episodic nature of events as they went on their journey a bit repetitive at times. Though the knife that Mat picks up is pretty bad-ass, even if he's an idiot for picking it up.

Some elements I liked, and if a ruthless editor cut it down to around half or even a third of its original length, I reckon I could even grow to love it.

[Tracey the Lizard Queen]

Am I the only one that kinda hated most of the female characters? Nynaeve was top of the list!

[Phrynne]

Tracey (Queen of Blades) wrote: "Am I the only one that kinda hated most of the female characters? Nynaeve was top of the list!"

Wait till you meet Faile.

[Tracey the Lizard Queen]

Phrynne wrote: "Tracey (Queen of Blades) wrote: "Am I the only one that kinda hated most of the female characters? Nynaeve was top of the list!"

Wait till you meet Faile."

Oh dear, I need some serious encouragement to continue the series!

[Bruce]

Tracey and Phrynne-

I'm just curious, what was it that put you off about the female characters? Does that include Elayne in the Queen's garden?

[Tracey the Lizard Queen]

Bruce wrote: "Tracey and Phrynne-

I'm just curious, what was it that put you off about the female characters? Does that include Elayne in the Queen's garden?"

I felt that they were quite one dimensional. I didn't quite see enough of Elayne to make up my mind, though she was every bit the spoilt princess. Nynaeve was a different story, I thought she was bossy, had a habit of talking down to people and for some strange reason she left the Two Rivers, where there were injured people that needed her help, to run after three teenage boys and her apprentice. Moiraine never properly explains to anyone what is going on and then expects them to do everything she says without question. Egwene I tolerated until the last few chapters, where her attitude towards Rand is completely uncalled for. There seemed to be a lot of her storming off in a mood and the men just thinking 'That's woman folk for you.' It feels like Jordan didn't really know anything about woman. They were just boiled down to 'bitches' or 'nice motherly types'.

I understand that every book will have characters that you will loathe or even downright hate, but every single female character?

[Phrynne]

I have read the whole series and loved it. However you do have to accept that all the women regard men as hopeless and helpless and all the men think that women are beyond their simple understanding. If you can ignore this constantly repeated theme the rest is good.

[Bruce]

Tracey and Phrynne- Thanks so much for the responses. That helps!

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I read this book 25 years ago, but I never continued with the series. I barely remembered it, actually. But I enjoyed the book this time around and I plan to finish the series.

My two-cent opinion is that it is a YA fantasy, now and when it was written.

The 25 years which has passed since it was first written has affected many readers' perception of the book, I think, but it depends on how much reading of fantasy genres one does. There was a bunch of 'classic' fantasy literature reads considered Very Literary around back then, but the general reading public was not familiar with those (science fiction was considered only for children and YA by the general grocery store book reader). At the time, the general public did not see WoT as derivative, although Classic Literary readers did. Now, there are SO many derivative Fantasy series, most of them at least 6 books long as well, I can't truly see my way to call ANY of the fantasy genre 'fresh'. Perhaps I'm a curmudgeon, but everything that was new in the 1960's and 1970's are ALL being rebooted and reimagined, if ever so slightly. I like and am enjoying the reboots, however. Mostly. Even though some of 'new' series and singles are up to the 4th reboot, to me...

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Working for a page break. Spam incoming.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Well. It's not a page break but it's some space. Here's what I propose. This book is 1000 pages long. You are wonderful at sharing thoughts and analyzing as we go. I don't wanna wait that long to hear all your ideas. Is it gonna really mess anyone up if we use spoiler tags in this thread for the buddy read? Chapter Number and spoiler tags so we can all respond to each other. If you get to the end, same deal, you can share your ideas behind tags.

[Michele]

Allison wrote: "Is it gonna really mess anyone up if we use spoiler tags in this thread for the buddy read? "

Nah, we can do that.

[Mason]

Only 60 pages in but I have to say that Mr. Jordan can definitely paint a picture with words. Feels very Sanderson like. Or I guess it would be Sanderson’s work feels very Jordan like? Whatever, you guys get what I mean. . . Great world building :D

[Rob]

Mason (Goodnight) wrote: "Feels very Sanderson like. Or I guess it would be Sanderson’s work feels very Jordan like? Whatever, yo..."

Yeah, Sanderson cites Jordan/Wheel of Time as one of his main influences. It was him being tapped for WoT that put him on my radar in the first place.

[Francisca]

I couldn't put it down last night; I'm almost halfway through (oops!).

The Tolkien influences are super clear: if you take away a few details, the whole plot right now is pretty much the Fellowship of the Ring. (view spoiler)[ Fades = Nazgul; Trollocs = Orcs; running off on the night of a party; being chased by the Dark One without being sure what's going on; cryptic, enigmatic guides who have a past; headings for safety to a white tower protected by magic... I could go on. There's even a ferry! And a detour to a haunted place that turns out to be a terrible idea! (hide spoiler)] Not that that's a problem: it's a great plot, and the world is different enough that it doesn't feel derivative. :D

One thing I'm finding interesting is Jordan's portrayal of the Dark One: (view spoiler)[ he seems to be making a clear parallel to the Devil, with names pretty similar to Beelzebub and Sheol (Hell in Hebrew) and the idea that he's exiled but still has lots of influence over people's lives, particularly in sowing suspicion and rancor. The dream sequences are really interesting too. (hide spoiler)]

I have lots of questions (some of which will probably only be answered in book 8 :P), but of the burning ones: (view spoiler)[ Why is Thom still going to Tal Varen with them? I'm inordinately suspicious of his motivations for some reason. (hide spoiler)] Also did it bother anyone else (view spoiler)[ that Nynaeve just up and left her village/responsibilities to go after some wayward teenagers and then stays with them even though she can tell there's no use in convincing them to go back? It felt like a lame excuse to add her to the party - as did Min's "I see sparks" moment. I'm guessing she's the other Two Rivers woman who can channel, but it felt contrived. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

Francisca wrote: "I couldn't put it down last night; I'm almost halfway through (oops!).

The Tolkien influences are super clear: if you take away a few details, the whole plot right now is pretty much the Fellowsh..."

You are definitely right about the Tolkien influence. I read Eye of the World as a teenager and it got me into fantasy. I had never actually read Lord of the Rings at that point, so I had no idea until much later how similar they were.

As for your questions about (view spoiler)[Thom and his motivations for staying with the boys, (hide spoiler)] that will be hinted at for now, and explained in full later.

[Bobby]

Mason (Goodnight) wrote: "Only 60 pages in but I have to say that Mr. Jordan can definitely paint a picture with words. Feels very Sanderson like. Or I guess it would be Sanderson’s work feels very Jordan like? Whatever, yo..."

That's why it was so perfect that after Robert Jordan's death, his wife got Sanderson to finish the series. I honestly couldn't tell the difference in the writing style. It was the first time I had heard of Sanderson, and now Mistborn is one of my all time favorites, along with WoT of course.

[Michele]

Francisca wrote: "Also did it bother anyone else that Nynaeve..."

Nynaeve reminds me of Hermione Granger :)

Also noted: the name "Tar Valon" is awfully close to "Avalon", isn't it?

[CBRetriever]

Francisca wrote: "I couldn't put it down last night; I'm almost halfway through (oops!).

The Tolkien influences are super clear: if you take away a few details, the whole plot right now is pretty much the Fellowsh..."

The Tolkien influences are far, far more evident in The Sword of Shannara. It was incredible how exactly that book followed LotR.

Unfortunately the compilation I'm reading started with the prequel, so I'm going to have to be careful about spoiling things

[Aleksandra]

Michele wrote: “Nynaeve reminds me of Hermione Granger :) ”

Oh no, I love Hermione but Nynaeve not so much :)

[Mason]

Chapter 15

(view spoiler)[ I don’t know how I feel about the gleeman... he seems very suspect to me. (hide spoiler)]

[Francisca]

Michele wrote: "Francisca wrote: "Also did it bother anyone else that Nynaeve..."

Nynaeve reminds me of Hermione Granger :)

Also noted: the name "Tar Valon" is awfully close to "Avalon", isn't it?"

Oh, that's a great comparison... Someone go find an ogre, a bathroom, and the equivalent of Halloween. That'll make it all better!

[Aleksandra]

I’ve finished first three chapters, it’s interesting how I forgot all these details. In general I remember only the main plot, so this reread will not take away joy of surprise while reading.
Also, I didn’t notice the first time resemblance with LOTR, same as Bobby I read Jordan before Tolkien :)

[Michele]

Mason (Goodnight) wrote: "I don't know how I feel about [spoilers removed]"

He sticks around for a while, so you'll have plenty of time to find out :)

[Mason]

Haha thanks for the heads up. I’m definitely not more curious now :)

[Michele]

In case anyone was wondering: Per Wikipedia, "The Wheel of Time has 2782 distinct named characters." Now there is an epic. That even beats Game of Thrones at 2435!!

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Michele wrote: "In case anyone was wondering: Per Wikipedia, "The Wheel of Time has 2782 distinct named characters." Now there is an epic. That even beats Game of Thrones at 2435!!"

O _ O

Loved this series. I read the entire set a few years ago.

[Francisca]

Michele wrote: "In case anyone was wondering: Per Wikipedia, "The Wheel of Time has 2782 distinct named characters." Now there is an epic. That even beats Game of Thrones at 2435!!"

In the Writing Excuses podcasts they had an episode about ensemble casts, and it was entertaining to hear everyone be completely blown away by the number of characters in WoT (and Stormlight Archive). The word spreadsheet may have come up.

[HeyT]

I've read up through chapter 27 and I have to say unless there is a seriously amazing redemption arc later on I absolutely cannot stand (view spoiler)[Mat (hide spoiler)]

[Aleksandra]

Chapter 16: (view spoiler)[ whitecloaks always reminded me of inquisition and witch hunt. I like how Jordan described them, I can totally imagine them in our medieval history. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

HeyT wrote: "I've read up through chapter 27 and I have to say unless there is a seriously amazing redemption arc later on I absolutely cannot stand [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Hey, this is very early. All of the characters go through quite a bit and grow a lot. There's 13 books left for character development. I know why you are saying that, but Mat eventually becomes one of my favorites. (hide spoiler)]

[Michele]

HeyT wrote: "I've read up through chapter 27 and I have to say unless there is a seriously amazing redemption arc later on..."

To misquote MLK: "The arc of Wheel of Time is long, but it bends toward justice" :)

[Mason]

Through Chapter 43

(view spoiler)[ A LOT of craziness has happened so far. Really glad that they all have finally met back up and have toned down Mat's issue. Figured it would happen eventually but was getting worried there for a second.

But something that stood out in the last chapter that I have been thinking about a lot was how I have really mixed feelings with Moiraine. . . The way she hides her real intentions and in a sly way is starting to put a weird taste in my mouth. It kind of added on when the Aes Sedai that was at the palace. If Moiraine can feel Rand, why couldn't she? Maybe I am missing something. I hope it is just a bad feeling but it is starting to seem that she is going to turn on them. Crossing my fingers that I'm wrong.

The Ogier is really cool. I like him a lot so far. I can see him being bad too though. . . I guess I'm not a very trustworthy reader lol.

Oh, and I think the gleeman is definitely alive :) (still don't trust him either) (hide spoiler)]

[Francisca]

Up to chapter 31 (view spoiler)[ so everyone is still scattered and on their way to Caemlyn. And Thom is dead? Maybe? (hide spoiler)]

I knew that Perrin was one of my favorite characters the first time around and now I'm remembering why. I love the chapters from his perspective, (view spoiler)[ especially because he's so self-aware about his own thought processes and struggles. Also, the wolves. :) (hide spoiler)]

I am getting a bit tired of the "men don't understand women" vibe (along with the "women are bossy and nagging") that keeps repeating: I realize that the three boys are teenagers, but I can't wait for them to grow up a bit!

Also, continuing on connections to Fellowship: (view spoiler)[ I think Aleksandra called it that Matt was going to steal the dagger a-la-Palantir. And it seems to have an effect like the Ring, making him way more moody and suspicious. I hope someone throws it into a river at some point... but that'll probably take awhile. (hide spoiler)]

One thing I didn't get: (view spoiler)[ When Moiraine & Co. reach White Bridge, why does everyone pretend that nothing happened? Do they not want to admit there was a Fade in town? It was a bit weird. (hide spoiler)]