The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
discussion
Am I the only one who absolutely can't stand Mark Twain?
Francene wrote: "I like Mark Twain but I'm a bit outraged by his comments about Jane Austen:"I haven't any right to criticise books, and I don't do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticise Jane Auste..."
So I am just wondering why Mr. Clemens kept reading and rereading Jane Austen's work. Maybe he did need a few good ideas that he thought he could improve on .
I'm a big fan of James Fennimore Cooper and was outraged the first time I read Mark Twain's scathing critique of The Last of the Mohicans. That is, until I started laughing and nodding my head in agreement. I suspect Twain continued to read Jane Austin for the same reason we all do - once you pick her up, it's pretty much impossible to put her down.
Hugh wrote: "I'm a big fan of James Fennimore Cooper and was outraged the first time I read Mark Twain's scathing critique of The Last of the Mohicans. That is, until I started laughing and nodding my head in a..." Hugh, Do you mean it is near impossible to put down one of her books or one her shin bones ?PL
As much as I don't really enjoy Twain, I might be able to comment in his favor on that disjointed feeling in the comment above. When Iread him, it was like my childhood in that you roamed freely, sometimes a few miles from home even, and you didn't plan that much of your day. Sure, you knew you were going to end up in the creek at some point. But your days had themes, maybe, and routine, and sometimes society hammered you over the head with schedules, but you didn't have carefully paced action and story arcs. Sometimes a bunch of us just materialized around the honeysuckle bush and talked while we slurped the nectar, and time itself hardly existed for us, let alone pacing. Then another time we might pause and notice the light changing, and we knew we had to be home by dark. Kids scattered at times like that, some with more anxious hustle than others. That, if I even managed to express it clearly, was true and finely done in Twain`s books. His characters carried it to a farther extent than we did as kids, but the reasons were there in the book. My kids have really struggled with seeing Twain as any sort of realist, and that's because they can't imagine kids running loose like that. The entire book, as a result, felt " all over the place" for them. Maybe other people have had similar experiences.
I agree with your view.
"Often it does seem such a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." - Mark Twain
Lora wrote: "As much as I don't really enjoy Twain, I might be able to comment in his favor on that disjointed feeling in the comment above. When Iread him, it was like my childhood in that you roamed freely, s..."Very nicely put.
I hope so...it says something sad about our shrinking attention spans if there are many of you.
The beauty of Huck Finn ... to me ... is in the irony of a poorly educated adolescent boy who believes he is doing a bad thing by aiding and abetting a slave yet he does it anyway because somewhere in his developing conscience he actually cares for Jim and wants him to be free. As far as Twain's writing style not being a flowing prose, he is speaking in the first person. How else would an poorly educated country boy speak. I found it quite charming. My favorite book!
Beth wrote: "The beauty of Huck Finn ... to me ... is in the irony of a poorly educated adolescent boy who believes he is doing a bad thing by aiding and abetting a slave yet he does it anyway because somewhere..."I agree with you. That's also why I didn't like Tom. He turns up at the end of the book and turns Jim into his game for the day (or several days). But in the Tom Sawyer book, he already went so far as to disappear and let his loved ones hold a funeral for him just for a laugh. Other people don't seem real to him.
Yes, I think both Tom and Jim are much more fully realized "people"
Not at all, the others ride a small school bus and have drool cups
Rebecca wrote: "I have tried on many occasions to like these books, but I can't seem to make it happen. Reading about old Huck in highschool was painful. Not because of the subject matter, but because it was so sl..."I do NOT like Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn. I do like some of his short stories (The £1,000,000 Bank Note comes to mind), and his essay Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences (even though I admire Cooper as well). I have thought Twain's novels overrated since I was a kid, and rereading as an adult affirmed that for me.
I can't imagine a person that likes to read but can't stand Mark Twain. He was my favorite author in high school. I absolutely loved everything he wrote. I have pretty much everything he wrote in my personal library. I still love most of his writing and have read it all multiple times over the past 50 years.I guess you might need to be a young, adventurous boy to really like Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer. I'd suggest you give Puddnhead Wilson a try.
For me, the various issues about episodic writing, lengthy detail, sketchy characterization, and its "drag" pale to one of the greatest scenes in all literature. That is the moment in Chapter 31 when Huck must decide whether or not to tip off Miss Watson about Jim's location. He knows he must choose between doing the righteous thing, the civilized thing, or instead keep the information to himself and thus guarantee himself damnation. It is a scene that keeps me trembling at the power of the choice between a "sound heart" and a "deformed conscience." These are Mark Twain's own terms to describe Huck's choice, and why Huck must choose damnation.
Jon, so well put! That part is the beauty of the book for me too. The "wrong" thing to do today was the "right" thing to do in his time but Huck wrestled with his conscience and went against the only thing he had known in his life.
I've not picked up a feast of words concocted by Twain that I didn't wholeheartedly love, but Letters from the Earth is my favorite, with the short story, The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg running second.I understand why Twain did not publish Letters before his death, it would have had an unpleasant effect on his family. They were more chary of his reputation than he, and waited twenty years, I believe it was, before releasing it to be published after his death.
Huck is a wholly different book when read as a mature person (I first used "adult" but achieving adulthood and maturity don't necessarily coincide) than as a child.
Huck is one of those literary characters I'd like to talk to in real life. His innate ethical intelligence and sense of humor are wonderful.
Spent a year reading through it, had amnesia as I failed to recollect some previous scenes.
I also love Letters From the Earth, and it is quite different from Twain's other works. I can see why he had it published posthumously, since many would regard it as sacrilegious.
probably; there must b SOMETHING u like! -he even wrote sci fi!.. anyway, *i* like him ~ not ALL ~ but then he's kinda in my 'biz;' American Humorists, et al
As is true for most "ancient" work like Shakespeare or Chaucer, Twain begs to be updated a bit in some of his stuff. Strangely, Dickens doesn't seem to cry for this just yet!!
What would you update, really? I'd just think of whatever he wrote as a "period piece"... If anything, Shakespeare is what keeps attracting "updates" (I mean, look at his Richard III, Macbeth, etc. with Holeywood making "modernized" (per)versions... and Beowulf, which ought to be considered a period piece if anything is, has been repeatedly "Updated" by Holeywood... and now they've started in on the Bible, apparently?(Of course if you counter that Holeywoood's opinion about anything don't mean schumer, *I* can't really debate *that*, either... so...)
But speaking of venerable tomes that desperately need to be updated (NOT!), try *this* for a good scare right about now:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
I started reading when I was 8, with Tom Sawyer. I love Tom Sawyer. Nothing can make me not like Mark Twain. Nope, nothing.
Astha wrote: "I started reading when I was 8, with Tom Sawyer. I love Tom Sawyer. Nothing can make me not like Mark Twain. Nope, nothing."
Agreed! And nothing needs updated. If the beauty, humor and irony don't speak to the reader or if the subject matter offends, then there is plenty of politically correct rubbish out there that might make some readers feel good. (Tongue in cheek.)
Yes. Maybe you would prefer Jane Austin. They hated each other. Mark Twain is one of my favorite authors.To be honest, this isn't his best work. I like his short stories better. Just like any musician that cuts a great album, there is always that one song that gets on the top 40 chart, that happens to not be their best song by a long shot.
Christia wrote: "Yes. Maybe you would prefer Jane Austin. They hated each other. ."
OOH... now THAT sounds interesting.
Are there any poison pen letters, hate-filled diatribes, vicious backstabbing attacks, or other fascinating amusing and gratifying evidence extant?
I *love* seeing these cultured sophisticated literary types get down in the gutter and go at each other like rabid dogs... and I'd *particularly* like to see Mark Twain tear Jane Austen a new one.
"I haven't any right to criticise books, and I don't do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticise Jane Austen, but her books madden me so that I can't conceal my frenzy from the reader; and therefore I have to stop every time I begin. Everytime I read 'Pride and Prejudice' I want to dig her up and beat her over the skull with her own shin-bone." - Mark Twain- Letter to Joseph Twichell, 13 September 1898
"Jane Austen? Why I go so far as to say that any library is a good library that does not contain a volume by Jane Austen. Even if it contains no other book."
- Mark Twain, quoted in Remembered Yesterdays, Robert Underwood Johnson
THANK you... How did you happen across those? (no, I didn't try an Internet search...)I've heard the "bash his skull in with his own shin-bone" one before - I think it's become a meme. (which it deserves...)
Did Jane whine indignantly in response? (*That* would *further* make my evening.)
gonna stash those in my (voluminous!) quotes file, for use in harassing Austen fans
Actually, after I posted that I realized that she might have died before he was ever published. I know she died young and was ill most of her life. I will have to search the internet now.*Brief Intermission*
Yes, as suspected post-post, Samuel Clemens was born in 1835 and Jane Austin died in 1817.
I admittedly enjoyed "Pride and Prejudice". I'm not sure how that worked out.
.
Yes, as suspected post-post, Samuel Clemens was born in 1835 and Jane Austin died in 1817. "
Yeah, that sort of makes sense... In those more "Proper" times, I doubt if he would have attacked "A Lady" in that fashion while she was alive (Though it would have been fun to watch). (He might have ended up in a duel, too, though...)
She's too "Nuanced" for my barbaric sensibilities anyway... But that doesn't stop her from making a good target.
He had an excellent, probing mind and is a necessary American writer. He requires work I'm not always up for, but his writing is always rewarding, if only for capturing a certain attitude at a certain time.
As a young person, I read Huck Finn many times. I found it frightening in a good way.And the actors he and Jim hook up with....hysterical. I have read almost all of Mark Twain by now, but Huck will always be my favorite character. He does far more thinking outside the box than Tom--maybe because he has to. I think I identified with his search for a place or a way that he could fit in and still be himself.
Tend to agree that Twain is overrated as a novelist, IMHO. Obviously he was prolific and is part of the American fabric so we read him for reasons beyond his literary skill. I find his short humorous stories to be better written than his novels.
Before anyone else weighs in on Huck Finn, have a look at a brand new book, Andrew Levy's _Huck Finn's America_. At least look up some of the numerous reviews that have come out. Levy argues that Huch Finn has been misunderstood and he provides a wealth of new ideas - new ideas to most of us, many are already familiar to Twain scholars. Of special interest is the final chapter, which causes so much dissension among readers.
My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"ayyy
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"What class are you in? Is it a conventional English class or instead an independent study or other concentrated format? I ask because you should not complain until you need to commit to a solid 5 weeks of James Joyce (Portrait, Dubliners, Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake, and Richard Ellmann's biography of Joyce). That had my head swimming!
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"Sounds to me like you already hated Mark Twain.
Good point. If there had not been a Mark Twain, there would have been fewer American authors who could speak to the country's psyche.
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"HMMM... Can't you you realign your wrath so that you're hating your English teachers instead? I mean, it's not Mark Twain's fault that English teachers are lower forms of life (if you can call it life...).
When I was in high school, I had a friend who was a natural cartoonist, and drew caricatures of our teachers. Our senior English teacher, an old bluehead whose shrunken brain was so vanishingly small as to be undetectable with a transmission electron microscope, came in for special attention - he would draw cartoons of her with an axe buried in her head, or hung drawn and quartered, etc... Upon reflection I'd say that probably did serve to redirect our wrath from the tripe she was making us read and the authors thereof, to her vile, revolting *person*...
(Caution: Don't get caught with cartoons like *that* nowadays... But DO accidentally leave them somewhere that they'll be found by a teacher and taken to an "Administrator" in abject panic (careful of video cams too though))
Duane wrote: "Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"HMMM... Can't you you realign your wrath so that you're ha..."
Apologies for sounding like an old fart. The schools I went to were not the prison barracks they are today. Of course, I still had to go 10 miles each way to school in snowshoes.
I find that the "old farts" generally like Mark Twain. They understand the history around his time. It's the younger twits who get the squits "having" to read Twain. They are intimidated by Southern drawls, quotation marks and young boys having adult thoughts--and adventures. Too much T.V., maybe.
At first I took offense to you calling me an old fart until I read the alternative, young twit. Glad to be among the OFs!
Beth wrote: "At first I took offense to you calling me an old fart until I read the alternative, young twit. Glad to be among the OFs!"Add another OF to this group. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, warts and all, is in my top reading list.
I WAS RESPONDING TO THIS STRING OF MISAPPREHENSIONS:ssage 194: by Tom Oct 05, 2015 07:03AM
My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain
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message 195: by Tom Oct 05, 2015 07:04AM
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"
ayyy
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message 196: by Jon - rated it 5 stars Oct 05, 2015 08:31AM
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"
What class are you in? Is it a conventional English class or instead an independent study or other concentrated format? I ask because you should not complain until you need to commit to a solid 5 weeks of James Joyce (Portrait, Dubliners, Ulysses, Finnegan's Wake, and Richard Ellmann's biography of Joyce). That had my head swimming!
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message 197: by Scott - rated it 5 stars Oct 05, 2015 09:49AM
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"
Sounds to me like you already hated Mark Twain.
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message 198: by David - rated it 5 stars Oct 05, 2015 10:27AM
Good point. If there had not been a Mark Twain, there would have been fewer American authors who could speak to the country's psyche.
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message 199: by Duane - rated it 5 stars Oct 05, 2015 03:47PM
Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"
HMMM... Can't you you realign your wrath so that you're hating your English teachers instead? I mean, it's not Mark Twain's fault that English teachers are lower forms of life (if you can call it life...).
When I was in high school, I had a friend who was a natural cartoonist, and drew caricatures of our teachers. Our senior English teacher, an old bluehead whose shrunken brain was so vanishingly small as to be undetectable with a transmission electron microscope, came in for special attention - he would draw cartoons of her with an axe buried in her head, or hung drawn and quartered, etc... Upon reflection I'd say that probably did serve to redirect our wrath from the tripe she was making us read and the authors thereof, to her vile, revolting *person*...
(Caution: Don't get caught with cartoons like *that* nowadays... But DO accidentally leave them somewhere that they'll be found by a teacher and taken to an "Administrator" in abject panic (careful of video cams too though))
reply | flag *
message 200: by Jon - rated it 5 stars Oct 05, 2015 08:31PM
Duane wrote: "Tom wrote: "My English teachers are heartless and have forced us to read Mark Twain for over six weeks now!!! smh now I hate Mark Twain"
HMMM... Can't you you realign your wrath so that you're ha..."
Apologies for sounding like an old fart. The schools I went to were not the prison barracks they are today. Of course, I still had to go 10 miles each way to school in snowshoes.
You might like his other books even less Shawna. I was quite taken aback in A Tramp Abroad when he skipped from NOT 'tramping' through Europe to a peculiar story about some old-timer in the American West telling a story about some birds to an anecdote about a German duel. At least, that's how I remember it.