Q&A with Laurie R. King discussion
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Garment of Shadows
The Russell/Holmes relationship
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And I'm glad you find reticence sexy.
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message 6: by C.P. (last edited Aug 21, 2012 06:04pm) Aug 21, 2012 06:01pm
I love the Russell/Holmes books, and I agree with Anne about A Monstrous Regiment of Women containing one of the sexiest kisses in fiction. Although I think the book that interested me most was A Letter of Mary, which followed.
What fascinates me especially is the way that Russell mirrors Holmes without replicating him. It makes her credible as a match for him. But I do notice that as time goes on, they spend more time apart, whereas the interaction between them is what draws me to the series. I wonder why that is, and whether you intend to write another book where they cooperate not only in principle and from time to time but in practice, side by side, throughout the novel.
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message 7: by Anne Aug 21, 2012 08:38pm
C.P., although I agree with you that having Russell and Holmes work together is emotionally satisfying, they think so much alike that it is redundant to them. So it makes more sense for them to spend at least half their time in different places, working different parts of the puzzle. Then, when they put their pieces together, there is a feeling of completion which wouldn't be there if they were together all the time. Does that make sense to you? Laurie, is this the line you were thinking along, or did you have other ideas? Also, I would question Holmes's respect for Russell if she didn't go off on her own.
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message 8: by Amy Aug 22, 2012 07:53am
How difficult was it to write that kiss?! You were 'playing' with one of the biggest literary characters! It had to be sexy without taking them both completely out of character - which I believe you achieved - but was it difficult to write? Or to include in the book? Did you feel a kiss was needed between them in order to move the story on? Sorry a lot of questions I know but I'm always curious how authors take to writing 'sex' into such a popular figure!
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message 9: by Anne (last edited Aug 22, 2012 12:34pm) Aug 22, 2012 08:06am
I think you mean to ask Laurie that question! It was perfectly done, and I could no more have written that scene than I could fly to the moon unaided. As a writer, I always admire a writer who can accomplish something I can't, and like you, Amy, I always wonder how it was done. I have sometimes read a single book 200 times trying to determine how a writer achieved an effect. I think Laurie has been extremely restrained about the sex life of Russell and Holmes, but I do think that one kiss was necessary to make the point. I too want to know how difficult it was to write, and how long it took to write that brief scene.
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Also, I've always been very clear, in my own mind at least, the these are Russell's stories, that Holmes is a supporting player. But because he's such a strong character, the only way to keep him from dominating every scene is to get him out of the room and allow Russell to get on with it.
Garment of Shadows is fun because it alternates Russell's first person sections with chapters following Holmes alone. Tricky for a "memoir" to incorporate the viewpoint of others, but it seemed to work in previous books, and I feel it's acceptable here.
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As I write the relationship, I am always aware that this is a married couple, for whom it would be somewhat freakish to have no physical relationship whatsoever. At the same time, these are the memoirs of a woman in her 80s (or more) who feels strongly that there are elements of her life that others have no business in.
Which means that the only way to write sex into Russell's stories is obliquely, to have her drop the occasional mention that--more or less inadvertently--gives away something much deeper.
Laurie wrote: "The portions of the books where Russell and Holmes come together after an absence are the fun bits, but I've always felt that stretching those sections into an entire book would be rather like an e..."I see the point...reluctantly! It is delightful to be part of Russell and Holme's conversations but, to some extent, it is even more special to be privy to Holmes' thoughts/feelings about Russell a la "Locked Rooms." From what I've read on here, I'm hoping there's more of it in "Garment of Shadows."
But I also miss Damian and Estelle! I would love to hear these two together with Russell AND Holmes.
To reinforce the 'separation', realize that Holmes, as ACD shows us, is a loner of sorts. He retreats into himself, his pipe, his violin, or his opium when doing his brainwork or when researching in his lab; or into his disguises on the streets undercover. Watson, and now Russell, often act on their own and then people come together when the game is afoot.
Laurie wrote: "As for the sex question.As I write the relationship, I am always aware that this is a married couple, for whom it would be somewhat freakish to have no physical relationship whatsoever. At the s..."
I thought you did that quite well, actually. And I love how Holmes always follows up the few passionate moments with humor--those kisses in Monstrous Regiment and The Game particularly. That deflecting of emotion is very true to his character, really. You see it also in the Conan Doyle stories, like "The Dying Detective."
This book series always has interested me because the romance is such a I don't want to say downplayed one, maybe the word I'm thinking of is quiet. Laurie I'm curious as you mapped out the early books in the series, did you plan on Holmes and Russell getting married or did it sneak up on you?
I could see Anne Hathaway as Russell, and George Clooney as Holmes.
Raissa wrote: "Laurie wrote: "As for the sex question.As I write the relationship, I am always aware that this is a married couple, for whom it would be somewhat freakish to have no physical relationship whatso..."
I'm interested in the beginning why you felt that Holmes and Russell had to get married instead of keeping them as companions and friends who worked on cases. I was completely surprised when they showed feelings for each other of that nature and wonder why you went that route.
Laurie wrote: "The portions of the books where Russell and Holmes come together after an absence are the fun bits, but I've always felt that stretching those sections into an entire book would be rather like an e..."I agree with the maneuver of alternating chapters -- I like that better than repeating the "coming together" at the end device....
However, what I would love to see is a real relationship between Russell and a female friend -- for such a strong minded woman, she would surely have had such close relationships? Other intellectual peers? But that line seems undeveloped ...
Dot wrote: "I could see Anne Hathaway as Russell, and George Clooney as Holmes."This could be a whole new discussion thread in itself. I enjoy the game but -- and I say this respectfully, realizing that it is entirely a matter of taste, in which reasonable minds can differ -- George Clooney and Anne Hathaway? Are you crazy? :-D
Actually, I just noticed that it HAS become a new discussion thread!
I have always enjoyed the subtleties of their relationship. They go their separate ways, yet we know they are devoted to one another.
Karen wrote:I'm interested in the beginning why you felt that Holmes and Russell had to get married instead of keeping them as companions and friends who worked on cases. I was completely surprised when they showed feelings for each other of that nature and wonder why you went that route. "
When I read BEEK, it had the opposite effect. It always seems like those two are being pulled together, and the story never seems complete until they meet up. Such natural, electrifying chemistry. I couldn't imagine them ending up any other way.
George Clooney? NEVER!!!!!! Holmes is a very tall, very thin, mysterious man. Anne Hathaway might work though. I wish this series would be made into a movie.
Considering the age difference, will there be a time when age has an effect on Holmes and how will Mary handle that? Its difficult to see her as a caregiver. By the way, I've always loved the Holmes short stories and feel that the Mary Russel novels are as true to the Holmes stories as any I've ever come across. I enjoy them very much!
Laurie wrote: "As for the sex question.As I write the relationship, I am always aware that this is a married couple, for whom it would be somewhat freakish to have no physical relationship whatsoever. At the s..."
Yes, of course. And, to be blunt, too many explicit descriptions would dump you into a different genre—not bad in itself but not in line with the rest of the story. I think my earlier comment meant to say that I enjoy watching the Holmes/Russell relationship develop. I also—and even more, given that Russell is in her 20s and therefore more in formation, so to speak—enjoy watching Russell develop inside and through her marriage.
Whether that happens through childbirth or in some other way is really up to you as Russell's creator. But it seems more likely to me, as a long-married person, to happen in interaction with Holmes rather than in isolation. That is the reason that their relationship interests me.
That is, however, just one reader's POV.
BTW, love Locked Rooms for this very reason, even though Holmes and Russell operate independently at times. Inconsistent? I don't think so.
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Albert wrote: "Considering the age difference, will there be a time when age has an effect on Holmes and how will Mary handle that? Its difficult to see her as a caregiver. By the way, I've always loved the Holme..."I've wondered about the aging aspect myself. I've wondered if Laurie is starting to separate them more in the stories as a prelude to Mary inevitably having a future without Holmes. But I have to confess that Pirate King was my least favorite of the books so far because Holmes and Russell felt so disconnected to me. That was quite dissatisfying as the partnership between the two is what makes this series so special.
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I think the first book only makes sense if you assume a permanent relationship beyond that of partnership, especially with two people who are all or nothing in everything they do. So yes, I'm sure that I knew from the beginning that was where it was going.
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You may have noticed that the last ten books cover a period of just 16 months. At that rate, Holmes will wear out rather than age.
Laurie wrote: "Bzak2 wrote: "Albert wrote: "Considering the age difference, will there be a time when age has an effect on Holmes and how will Mary handle that? Its difficult to see her as a caregiver. By the way..."They have covered quite a lot of ground in a short amount of time :-)
I recently finished listening to A Monstrous Regiment of Women, narrated by Jenny Sterlin. I somehow managed to miss this book when it came out, but I do want to say now that I was enthralled by the writing, awed by the impressive research and captivated by the cultured skills of the narrator. All seemed flawless to me. Quite frankly, I don't know how on earth Ms King continues to do what she does, but I'm very grateful for every single book that she writes.
Laurie wrote: "Bzak2 wrote: "Albert wrote: "Considering the age difference, will there be a time when age has an effect on Holmes and how will Mary handle that? Its difficult to see her as a caregiver. By the way..."Never mind Holmes. Russell will wear out before she can age, at this rate!
Laurie wrote: "Questions transferred from another thread:message 6: by C.P. (last edited Aug 21, 2012 06:04pm) Aug 21, 2012 06:01pm
I love the Russell/Holmes books, and I agree with Anne about A Monstrous Regim..."
I am now reading the new novel and just passed the line from Holmes, "Never have I approached you without a qualm." I love the respect they have for each other and the ensuing dynamics of their attractions.
Laurie wrote: You may have noticed that the last ten books cover a period of just 16 months. At that rate, Holmes will wear out rather than age. Holmes will never wear out. He's like Baron Munchhausen: adventure makes him younger!
Laurie wrote: "As for the sex question.As I write the relationship, I am always aware that this is a married couple, for whom it would be somewhat freakish to have no physical relationship whatsoever. At the s..."
As you say in another post, Russell is your main focus and she writes these memoires in her 80's. She is written as a very active and intelligent woman, certainly innovative for her times. The relationship between her and Holmes is written with real class. It seems to me that so many books today put in a small amount of plot and a lot of detailed sexual activity. Perhaps that fits the plot. There are lots of other ways that Russell describes her deep love for Holmes and her concern for him.
And I especially like how, throughout the time they are together, their relationship builds and grows. While I realize that there is so much activity that they could hardly get bored, when they are alone with no one else around, there are moments when this affection and caring comes through as well.
Hope I am interpreting this correctly. Perhaps I am seeing something that is not really there.
Laurie wrote: "Bzak2 wrote: "Albert wrote: "Considering the age difference, will there be a time when age has an effect on Holmes and how will Mary handle that? Its difficult to see her as a caregiver. By the way..."To older Holmes fans he is not even dead now. And of course he is not fiction either. If there can be a whole society that pays homage to him as if he were a real person, I guess I can feel the same way.
It is too bad that over the time that he wrote about Holmes Arthur Conan Doyle disliked him so and hated to bring him back even though his publishers told him that was where he had the most public interest. I guess he was a little to real to Doyle as well.
I love this series and have shared the first two books with so many people, but like others I enjoy the interplay between Holmes and Russell, so I have enjoyed some of the later novels less. Oddly enough I have never felt that Holmes overshadowed Russell when they were both in the action together. They play off each other to perfection.On the other issue, as a long married person, I have found that the "fizz and bubble" of sexuality in a relationship grows more subtle, but also more interesting with time. Holmes and Russell seem more like roommates than lovers in the later novels, and I miss the chemistry. (Remember that one long tapered finger brushing her shoulder in the bolt hole in Monstrous Regiment? Minimum touch - maximum impact!!) Ms. King, you are such a masterful writer that I feel that you could illuminate this aspect of a long, vital relationship in a way most novelists miss. I agree that "sex scenes" are out of place with this reticent couple, but the ebb and flow of physical intimacy includes far more than that. I look forward to this next installment - you're a wonder and these novels are a delight!
Just a note on the age difference - if you've gotten through the whole series, you'll note that time is moving VERY slowly in the lives of the characters. At the end of GARM, we've only just arrived in 1925. So, by the time Laurie's Holmes gets too old for action and adventure, most of we readers will be geriatric ourselves!
Marilyn Green wrote: "I love this series and have shared the first two books with so many people, but like others I enjoy the interplay between Holmes and Russell, so I have enjoyed some of the later novels less. Oddly ..."Yes, this beautifully captures my feelings, too. Thank you, Marilyn!
I'm not looking for explicit sex scenes, which are a bane to write, easily become boring or eye rolling, and are appropriate to neither the setting, the genre, nor these characters. But the occasional hint that the Russell/Holmes relationship goes beyond teacher/pupil, partners, or brother/sister, as well as the subtleties of the interaction between them—that is the emotional heart of the series (for me). I love it when it happens, and I wish it happened more.
And if you are thanking God that you are not in my critique group, rest assured that they probably sympathize with you! ;-)
Much of the allure of the Holmes character is the setting and time period. There have been many pastiche writers who violate turn of the century London and put Holmes into modern and even fantasy or supernatural scenarios, but I think the Russell series works, in part, because we are spared the clutter of modern technology while keeping Holmes closer to the foggy, mysterious London of ACD.
I am honored to be invited to join this group and to meet online with Laurie King. I am a retired CSI and am delighted to see the relationship between Mary and Holmes, because my mentor/partner was twenty-odd years older than I and we had a similar working relationship, although we were both married to other people. I would love to know how Laurie was able to work out how an older man and young woman working together in a dangerous field would interact. My favorite book in this series is A Monstrous Regiment of Women, which includes in the penultimate chapter the sexiest kiss in fiction.