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Watching Swifts - R. J. Askew
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R.J. wrote: "Andrew wrote: "I really like the cover too!What is the copyright position on using old paintings as book covers? I'm just starting to consider cover options for my thing set in 18th Century Venic..."
Telex? That's technology older than the painting itself isn't it?
R.J. wrote: "Andrew wrote: "I think I have a particular fondness for the book given that I know Kew Gardens quite well, along with the whole Kew/Richmond/Barnes area. I'm a bit of a sucker for well-told stories..."we have a community of parrots living wild near us. I don't know how they fight off the magpies but they are definitely growing in number
Marc wrote: "just started reading this yesterday. Enjoying it mightily, but then Ron & I have similar approaches to language, though he has the soul of a poet and I more of an anarchist :-)"I think there are some wonderful touches in your FFs. I will set some down in the eventual review. I don't think language has to be written in a formal poem to be poetic. V.Grossman in his stupendous LIFE AND FATE referred to the poetry of prose as the best poetry there is. Maybe a poet wld argue the point, but there is beauty in great prose. And in the end it doesn't matter what we call the words provided they move us in some profound and beautiful way.
Ah, the parakeets. Yes, they've become entrenched from my old home in Southfields, through Kew and Richmond, and up to Teddington where my brother lives. The first time I saw them I thought they were absolutely brilliant, a flash of tropical colour on drab old Wimbledon Park Road. Familiarity has bred contempt, however, and they're a thorough nuisance on my favourite bits of the Thames Path between Putney and Kew.
did you see someone was killed in Kew by a falling tree in yesterday's storms?
R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "just started reading this yesterday. Enjoying it mightily, but then Ron & I have similar approaches to language, though he has the soul of a poet and I more of an anarchist :-)"I thi..."
The thing is it's supremely hard feat to sustain beautiful poetic language over the course of a novel. To the point where it might actually impede enjoyment of the novel. You can do it in flash & short stories much more easily I think.
Me?I've popped in here looking for cake.
Where's the CAKE???
Marc wrote: "did you see someone was killed in Kew by a falling tree in yesterday's storms?"Yes, how sad. A visitor from New Zealand apparently.
Marc wrote: "R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "just started reading this yesterday. Enjoying it mightily, but then Ron & I have similar approaches to language, though he has the soul of a poet and I more of an anarchis..."Fair point Marc .. my story is not a novel though. Tis only 44,000 words. To many publishers that in itself is a crippling problem. I love the novella length though. It's like the 5,000 metres, with the 100 metres as a sort of haiku and the marathon as a Leo Tolstoyry. I know that reading to a high level of poetic intensity is demanding on the eye of the reader. But if a reader can do it they will be rewarded I believe. Such writing might need a 2nd read for the reader to really feel the cunninng sticthwork. Ach, tweeting it turning me into a huckster!
Patti (Migrating Coconut) wrote: "Very sad.Cake?
*whimper*"
Had THE most delicate sweet at the savoy ydy .. 'Pot du coconut au creme' or some such a sort of glazed number of such restrained passion it totally beguiled the taste buds. And the sea bream wasn't half mouth wateringly brilliant.
I do enjoy short stories and novellas. Perfect length to completely live a story in one, uninterrupted sitting.Know what else I like?
Cake.
Ignite wrote: "Marc wrote: "did you see someone was killed in Kew by a falling tree in yesterday's storms?"Yes, how sad. A visitor from New Zealand apparently."
Ach, yes that was sad indeed. Trees can be hazardous without warning.
R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "just started reading this yesterday. Enjoying it mightily, but then Ron & I have similar approaches to language, though he has the soul of a poet and I more o..."I've always wondered what the definitive maximum novella link is? My novel(la) just finished is about 58,000 words. Is that novella length?
Patti (Migrating Coconut) wrote: "I do enjoy short stories and novellas. Perfect length to completely live a story in one, uninterrupted sitting.Know what else I like?
Cake."
I like the shortened form because it allows you to subvert the beginning, middle, end narrative form, in a way you probably couldn't get away with over a novel length.
To me 58,000 words would be a novel, albeit a short novel. I'm sure there's as many shades of opinion on this as with everything else connected to writing, however...
I'd call it a short novel. I imagine someone somewhere has 'defined' these things but I think of a novella as 30 - 50 ish. As long as you don't call it a 'novelette' I don't much care!
Marc wrote: "R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "just started reading this yesterday. Enjoying it mightily, but then Ron & I have similar approaches to language, though he has the soul of a poet..."There's always a tremendous song and dance about what length a novella is. It seems to range from about 18k to 50k as far as I can tell. But it's just we writerss fusssing over a geeky point. Does the reader really care? For what it's worth I feel that if a book is thin, say 125 pages its a novella and if it's say 250 pages its a novel. Other definitions seem to focus on the content of the story, with a novella tending to focus on one event .. the struggle with the fish in The Old Man and the Sea .. or a narrow time focus .. One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich. The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is 125 pages short. Animal Farm is just 114. A Clockwork Orange is about 135. Sometimes novels ramble on a bit. I tend to enjoy a shorter read, economy of words .. he said, going on a bit. My feeling is that some stories are so vigorous in themselves, so intense and focused that they absolutely demand the writer to write them in the way them come out, short. I believe Dr.J and Mr.H was written in a frenzy. Phps they a story that is like that demands to be read in a similar way to the way in which it is written. A 250,000 novel is more like a chess tournament than an athlete tumbling across a mat. Poems are like 100 metre sprints of course. All cracking stuff!
Andrew wrote: "To me 58,000 words would be a novel, albeit a short novel. I'm sure there's as many shades of opinion on this as with everything else connected to writing, however..."Yeah, all that matters is the buzz in the reader. We just supply the hit however we can.
Wee indie authors r like small time dealers in a crowded market place...
Pssssst, wanna try my verb, dood?
O the darkness, the darkness!
Speaking of which Heart of Darkness is a shortie if I recall right.
Ignite wrote: "I'd call it a short novel. I imagine someone somewhere has 'defined' these things but I think of a novella as 30 - 50 ish. As long as you don't call it a 'novelette' I don't much care!"I agree even novella sounds a bit feeble, esp as most of them are actually like fast racers, of lean intent and wiry wording, fit rascals. Candide about 125 punchy pages.
I read Heart of Darkness for our village Book Group a couple of years ago. I didn't like it. Books are very personal. Someone liked it enough to recommend it as a book group read.Keep writing bok group - I do love chickens!
R.J. wrote: "I agree even novella sounds a bit feeble, esp as most of them are actually like fast racers, of lean intent and wiry wording, fit rascals. Candide about 125 punchy pages."How timely, I'm about 60% of the way through a reread of Candide right now! Brilliant book!
"L'Etranger" is 102 pages. But that's no novella?In the age of e-readers, hard to say how many pages a book is these days if no print version.
I submitted to a new indie imprint in the USA called Temporary Infinity |Press who are only interested nin novellas and short story anthologies; their maximum word limit was 40,000, can't remember the minimum one. They've taken on my short stories at about 23,000 words total.
Ignite wrote: "I read Heart of Darkness for our village Book Group a couple of years ago. I didn't like it. Books are very personal. Someone liked it enough to recommend it as a book group read.Keep writing b..."
I have a german friend who is house sitting right now and her duties include minding a clutch of chickens .. her descriptions of their ways are side splitting at times.
Andrew wrote: "R.J. wrote: "I agree even novella sounds a bit feeble, esp as most of them are actually like fast racers, of lean intent and wiry wording, fit rascals. Candide about 125 punchy pages."How timely,..."
How about this for a poss exam question: 'Compare the satire of Voltaire's Candide with that of Swift's Gulliver's Travels to show which novella divines the human condition most acutely.' (5,000 words)
Don't have nightmares. Only joking! - Dr.P.
Marc wrote: ""L'Etranger" is 102 pages. But that's no novella?In the age of e-readers, hard to say how many pages a book is these days if no print version.
I submitted to a new indie imprint in the USA calle..."
I won't hear a bad word said about ereaders having just acquired one (as yet still in it's box) but I know what you mean the page numbers .. somehow the reading a book by % doesn't seem right. There is prob some way to set the things to paginate numerically though. Someone here prob knows if there is.
Marc wrote: ""L'Etranger" is 102 pages. But that's no novella?
In the age of e-readers, hard to say how many pages a book is these days if no print version.
I submitted to a new indie imprint in the USA calle..."
I don't think there is a way to paginate numerically for most e-readers. The number of 'pages' varies according to the font size you use. There must be a workaround, but I think with the current tech we're stuck with percentages.
And I'd have loved to get an exam question like that! I'll have to take a look in my folders and dig out some of the questions I did have to answer about Candide back at the good old University of Birmingham...
I now miss my percentages when I read a tree book!
Ignite wrote: "I now miss my percentages when I read a tree book!"I'm sure you give it 110% whatever you read Ignite!
Andrew wrote: "And I'd have loved to get an exam question like that! I'll have to take a look in my folders and dig out some of the questions I did have to answer about Candide back at the good old University of ..."I've juuuust had this hideous flash of Dr.Pangloss being a sort of cross between Jasper Carrot, Ossie Osborne and William Shakespeare morphing into one IN a pint of Kobra in a black country curry house late one Saturday nightmare.
Marc wrote: "words by percentage proof of volume..."Arf, arf, I spose chocolate brags about being 74 pct cocoa or even 86 pct .. I wonder what they have in SAS kitbags, prob 98 pct iron man cocoa content.
Maybe we shld advertise by verbs or something .. imagine a sort of food style bar code type packaging on a story THIS STORY CONTAINS METAPHWOARS, SMILIES N MULTI-VITAMIN POVs. VERBS 32%, ADJECTIVES 86%, NOUNS 42%, ADVERBS 7%, LITTORALS 12.3%, TRACE TALENTS 0.0010342%. MICROWAVE FROM FROZEN: BREAK SEAL, STIR PLOT, 3.5 BOOKERS AT FULL EDIT, STIR, ADD CHARACTER SACHET, HEAT FOR A FURTHER 2.5 BOOKERS, SHORTLIST. READ UNDER A GENTLE LIGHT WITH A LIGHTLY DRIZZLED VIRGIN REVIEW.
Marc wrote: "The Cure: "So What" from 1978 I thinkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai82fU..."
I am defintely going to tweet said cure to my friend in laguna beach .. that richly tasselled retro lampstand has to be the way forward
R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "The Cure: "So What" from 1978 I thinkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai82fU..."
I am defintely going to tweet said cure to my friend in laguna beach .. that richly tasselled retro ..."
do you know something, that's my favourite LP cover of all time?
Marc wrote: "R.J. wrote: "Marc wrote: "The Cure: "So What" from 1978 I thinkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai82fU..."
I am defintely going to tweet said cure to my friend in laguna beach .. that richly tas..."
Some of The Cure's lyrics are also bewtiching .. they seem to divulge a little more of some big secret each time you listen. And of course you know you will never get the whole secret, nor do you wish to. Ain't that the secret, never having the lot?
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Books mentioned in this topic
Candide (other topics)Heart of Darkness (other topics)
The Old Man and the Sea (other topics)
One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (other topics)
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (other topics)
More...
Kew Gardens in the book is sketched in quite broad strokes, and with a certain amount of lic..."
Kew is an astonishing place for all sorts of reasons. It is natural yet it is also totally artificial, having started life as an aristocrat's playground. You are right, it is sketched in very broad terms in part because the story is an allegory. The creativity and moral conflict in play are more central to the story than the setting, which is as much a place in our minds as a beautiful confection to the west of London. Though to the world's botanists it is a university of paramount importance to us all. So, it is many things.