Sockpuppetry

[Ian, Moderator]

Anyone else aware of what this is? There is a debate raging on that there internet about the author Stephen Leather who has admitted to sockpuppetry which is creating multiple false identities on things like GR and Amazon to give positive reviews and ratings to his own books, whilst also slagging off rival authors and giving bad ratings/reviews.

[Bill]

Interesting. Probably not surprising. I hadn't heard that.

[Esther]

It seems a little pathetic. The author obviously doesn't believe his book is good enough to be successful on its own merits.

[Helen]

I was aware of it but not the name. We've had people join our group to spam us and then leave. One of my groups regularly has to disqualify a book from a poll as the author gets mates to join and vote for it.

[Susan]

I knew this kind of thing went on, but I hadn't come across the name before.
I've noticed that there are reviewers of new books, who usually give glowing five star reviews, who are all very recent GR members, and have no books or friends....it's always seemed odd.

[Em]

I've suspected it a few times, if the author and the people who are rating the book are all brief visitors to the group who haven't previously posted elsewhere, I think it's pretty darn obvious what the game is!

[Lynne - The Book Squirrel]

Susan wrote: "I knew this kind of thing went on, but I hadn't come across the name before.
I've noticed that there are reviewers of new books, who usually give glowing five star reviews, who are all very recent ..."

I have seen these too, and authors who see a review you write and then ask to be your friend with thousands of 'friends' but no books listed! I never accept them though.

[Lynne - The Book Squirrel]

Em wrote: "I've suspected it a few times, if the author and the people who are rating the book are all brief visitors to the group who haven't previously posted elsewhere, I think it's pretty darn obvious wha..."

I am in several groups and have seen lots of spam fly bys - it can be really annoying. I was in a kindle uk book group on Facebook and all there was on there were adds for books and authors raving about their reviews.

I came out of the group in the end as even when I mentioned it and the moderators ask them not to it stopped for a few days then they just carried on. I know thy have to advertise their books as most are indi writers but it spoils it when they keep doing it.

[Andy]

This was a 'futuristic' theme in the last chapter of A Visit from the Goon Squad. Looks like the future has arrived.

[Ian, Moderator]

I've always been wary of books that have quite a few 5 star reviews and often quite a few 1 and 2 star, but very little in between. They can be marmite books but also now I see they could be examples of sockpuppetry.......which btw is such a stupid name and defiles the good name of Lamb Chop. Showing my age again lol.

[Sadie]

I've noticed a couple reviews on Amazon where the reviewer not only reviewed a book badly, but called the other reviews out as possible sockpuppets. Some have been very thorough, pointing out exactly why they believe them to be so and I usually find it pretty convincing. Others just come across as spiteful. Either-way I can't imagine much of anything, even a slew of bad reviews, could be more harmful to an author or book sales. Thus, I can't imagine why a author would take the risk.

[Helen]

It always annoys me, puts me off buying their books too. Absolutely hate being spammed.

[Weenie]

I didn't read this thread originally as I thought it was about making sock puppets....

Never heard the term before but have seen odd reviews in Amazon.

Shame really.

[Sadie]

I came across this this morning and, though not technically sockpuppetry, I thought it might be of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/bus...

[Ian, Moderator]

Thanks Sadie - sort of industrial sockpuppetry.

[Dave]

An interesting topic - as most have said this is an annoying practice, although usually fairly easy to spot.

I do wonder whether this practice is actually hindering authors now? I have a tendency to avoid self published books where obvious 'sock-puppetry' is going on. If others do the same it may now reduce sales rather than increase them.

BTW - I do like the idea of sock puppets of book characters @lynne Roland from the Dark Tower pretty please!!!

Speaking of sock puppets anyone else like the Potter Pals?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1XIm...

[Elaine]

LOL that@s brilliant Dave. Thanks for bringing it to our attention

[Lynne - The Book Squirrel]

@Dave - Roland would be a good one and a nasty Randal Flagg/Walter!

[Helen]

Dave, that is funny.

[Victoria]

I think this gives a bad name to authors who are genuinely getting 5 star reviews too. I wouldn't personally use the method as I think it is misleading (and because I have never been great at the blowing my own trumpet thing anyway) but I would hate to think that because of people who are using this method, potential readers of my book see 6 5star reviews, decide they must all be me and move on without a second look.

[Dave]

Lynne - The Book Squirrel wrote: "@Dave - Roland would be a good one and a nasty Randal Flagg/Walter!"

Ohh we need a Pennywise the Clown to complete the set :)

[Lynne - The Book Squirrel]

@Dave - Forgot about him! Not read that one in a very long time!

Loved the Poter pals!

[Nikks]

I didn't know the term sockpuppetry, so uts nice to understand. Even without knowing its official name, some reviews make me suspicious. Now I dont necessarily believe it 100%, depends how many reviews there are. If there's 6 - I am suspicious. If there 1000 then I believe it - noone can have that many supportive mates.

[Dave]

Lynne - The Book Squirrel wrote: "@Dave - Forgot about him! Not read that one in a very long time!

Loved the Poter pals!"

It's my favorite sounds like a good excuse for you to re-read!!

[Lynne - The Book Squirrel]

Yes Dave will have to re-read it as I am rediscovering how good the older ones are with the Dark Tower and The Stand.

Listening to Song of Susannah right now.

[Andrew]

I think this current sock puppet thing might do more to blur the boundaries between trad and indie publishing than anything else. Seeing established heavyweight authors indulging in the same dishonest tactics as the worst self-publishing idiots out there... well, it does make you think. I don't believe this situation could have come about without the knowledge and collusion of publishers themselves.

[Ian, Moderator]

Strange and rather sad that RJ Ellory has done it. I've read several by him and on the whole his novels are great and have also sold loads so why is he bothering?

[Michele]

Ian wrote: "Strange and rather sad that RJ Ellory has done it. I've read several by him and on the whole his novels are great and have also sold loads so why is he bothering?"
No matter how wonderful a writer is - they are still only human and prey to lack of confidence, low self-esteem etc etc In fact I'd say the better a writer the more insecure they are likely to be. It is hard to have insight into human nature ( a prerequisite for good writing) without having an awful lot of 'human nature' to begin with and it isn't always all good.
There has been a long history of writers writing themselves great reviews. I read not long ago of a famous writer (a classic great) who did this about a hundred years ago (in newspapers I think it was) - I wish I could remember which one it was.
It isn't big and it isn't clever - but it is nothing new, just easier to uncover.

[Andrew]

Presumably he wants to sell more.

One defence that keeps coming up over this sock puppeting is that 'everyone' does it. I think that's an exaggeration, but I know of a few skeletons in cupboards that might be about to get an airing, and I suspect that we're going to see plenty more writers being named and shamed over the coming weeks and months.

[Lili]

Isn't it possible for sites such as Goodreads and Amazon to make it extremely difficult to create fake accounts.

[Andrew]

I don't think it's such a problem on Goodreads, but that might be just my naivety showing. Given the constant stream of high profile stories like this, Amazon and others are going to have to act sooner or later, probably by adjusting their algorithms to give more weight to 'trusted' reviewers. The problem is that Amazon want their site to be easy and open to new accounts being created so they can sell stuff. There's a certain conflict of interest stopping them from tightening up on multiple accounts too far.

[Julia]

Ian wrote: "Strange and rather sad that RJ Ellory has done it. I've read several by him and on the whole his novels are great and have also sold loads so why is he bothering?"

Agree, Ian. While I don't condone the fake 'rave' reviews, there is something even more reprehensible about attacking another author anonymously. If you have something to say, say it outright. Otherwise you are not expressing a genuine opinion but simply trying to scupper another author's sales. (Great topic by the way and Michele, if you remember the famous author, do post it!)

[Weenie]

An author attacking another author anonymously is pretty cowardly and despicable. By being outed, RJ Ellory may have got some headlines but his actions have probably done more harm than good. Right now, I could say that I'd never want to read any of his books.

Or I could just one star his books myself on GR or Amazon etc, since he's allegedly done the same for some authors that I like.

Fortunately I'm not petty like that...

[Lili]

Ian wrote: "Anyone else aware of what this is? There is a debate raging on that there internet about the author Stephen Leather who has admitted to sockpuppetry which is creating multiple false identities on t..."

Fraud Authors: Pillory or Gallows
James Thompsons new blog


Very Interesting

[Helen]

I would think you could set up more than one account quite easily, you just need different email addresses.

[Lili]

Here is the link to Jim's outspoken and courageous blog Fraud Authors: Pillory or Gallows

http://www.jamesthompsonauthor.com/bl...

[A.L.]

First time I heard this term. Seems a bit underhand to me. If you like my book and want to leave a review great, or to be fair a bad one so long as it is honest it is fine.

I have 1 review to date, and that is fine. I see lots of books with no reviews at all. That is fine, if I like them I will still buy them and draw my own conclusions.

Not everyone will like a book, that is fair enough but don't slag off the author or be spiteful just because he or she is in your genre. Really have people no manners?

[Helen]

I always think it's odd if a book has loads of 5 star reviews and nothing else. As surely someone hated it.

[James]

There's a certain hashtag out there on Twitter right now that if you follow closely, makes you realize that a certain author has got a bunch of sock puppet accounts sending out the same tweets.

It's pathetic, but I don't know if it's worth calling him/her out.

[Andrew]

There's a writer called Jeremy Duns who did a lot of good work exposing Leather's sock puppets, and others. He seems to have made it a bit of a mission in life to expose this kind. A quick tweet to Jeremy might garner some advice and insight.

[A.L.]

I really don't understand why a writer, especially a successful one would want to do this. I have seen books on Amazon with only 5 star or a mix between. I am often slightly suspicious of only 5 stars. I mean even if there are no typos surely not everyone likes it enough to give 5 stars. I know on KDP forum there has been accusations that people have been maliciously giving certain other people with whom they were upset bad reviews so I guess it works both ways.

I actually decided not to buy a book from an another who had made himself unpleasant on that forum. I might have considered it but not know, I think some authors seem to forget in part they sell themselves as part of the brand.