Shakespeare Fans discussion
What do you as a reader get, from reading a William Shakespeare play?
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Sasssa
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Aug 24, 2012 09:15PM
I like to see how old ppl make sins we do make it now and he make me feel it
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You get to feel like a part of history, being that his work is so... old. His words are an entirely different art compared to modern literature. It's a whole new experience.
I like the way he writes and the way he produces comedy and how it's written in a way that not even people of his time spoke and I love the themes and everything.Shakespeare is just so unique and has such a great way of portraying so much about a character and line delivery in such a lack of stage directions and words.
He is a genius. And it's like learning a new language when reading Shakespeare so that's also great and there's always different opinions on how the plays play out and lots of debates and it's a very 'get into' sort of work that he produces.
I am a writer professionally, and I like to "hear" Shakespeare - and of course it was written to be heard. A great professor I had once advised everyone to always read Shakespeare out loud. And so it is the musicality of it that attracts me. I am also a history buff, and love how he takes an historical figure and makes them very human.
Lichen hits it on the head so far as I am concerned - I don't read it aloud (I have a professional voice that reaches the back rows, not nice in buses or apartments) but my mental voice does quite well. I find that I read more slowly and with much greater attention.Reading plays requires a discipline that the reader of novels, poetry, and even more modern non-fiction does not usually require. One lacks the cues to which one is accustomed: "bloody handed Achilles", "the slinky blonde", and so on.
It's interesting to do "fantasy casting" (like fantasy football) for plays, particularly ones not frequently produced. I don't know if I would have cast Katherine Hepburn as the Madwoman of Chaillot (absurdist play by Jean Giradaux), and she was not in my mind when I read it. (Aloud in my head).
I feel like I am in a different world
I like the sense on what it is to be human. I like his wit and his depth at examining things with an honesty that you didn't see than or really now. I hope that sort of makes sense.
I agree with the theme of reading the works aloud. As a professional actor, director and acting teacher, I find that there are new things we can discover when the words are put into the air. Of course simply reading the work to yourself is good too, but new vistas open when we voice the works.And his capture of the human condition is really second to none.
Ken not only does that make sense, it's a great comment! Yes, his running commentary - often witty or poignant - on the human condition is what makes him great! Well said!
Lichen wrote: "Ken not only does that make sense, it's a great comment! Yes, his running commentary - often witty or poignant - on the human condition is what makes him great! Well said!"Thank you. I think what I was fully trying to express is how…easy or is it universal(don't want to beat this word to death when talking about Will) his work is. If you can get past the Elizabethan word style (which is the most common complaint), you get to see the world described back to you in such moving terms. He not only gives you the greatest and most dignified of humanity, but the most vulgar and the most natural. This is what separates him from some of his great contemporaries like Ben Johnson and Marlowe, and why we still contemplate his plays even now.
I find reading fiction brings us closer to reality. Although most of Shakespeare's play were exuberant forms of humanity, I believe they illustrates a greater understanding of human consciousness.
Milana wrote: "I find reading fiction brings us closer to reality. Although most of Shakespeare's play were exuberant forms of humanity, I believe they illustrates a greater understanding of human consciousness."Yes! I find that most time when done well "exaggerated" forms of fiction can teach us or convey more than normal huma reaction. Speaking of which could you help me choose a new Shakespeare play to dive in to. The three plays I have in mind are Richard III since I have already watched the documentary "Looking For Richard", Henry V, or The Taming of the Shrew.
Since you watched the documentary, Ken, you might really like Richard the III. Interesting fact: the Shakespearean version is generally played as a hunchback or cripple, but there is no evidence that Richard was. If you read Henry V, which imo has some of the most beautiful of language, read some history of the man first.
I'd recommend The Tempest (my personal favorite), Merchant of Venice, Much Ado About Nothing, and Cymbelline. I prefer some of his lesser known stuff only because it gives you better scope of his genius. Has anyone watched Anonymous? How do you feel the allegations that Shakespeare didn't write his own works? I've always been fascinated by the subject.
Does it matter? We have the works, that's the main thing. In fact, it might be nice to discover that others are involved. It would mean that Shakespeare was not a superhuman and increase the odds that some other mortal could produce work of that quality again sometime in the future. My worry, though, is that it is the perceived prolificness of one individual, who we know as 'Shakespear', that is key to his status as a genius. If it turned out that each seperate 'Shakespeare' play had been written by a different indvividual, would that devalue the portfolio? I mean, if the writer of King Lear turned out to be a one play wonder called John Smith, would he be any less of a genius simply because he hadn't written another 10 plays of a similar quality? If it turned out that there were actually twenty 'Shakespears', then I suppose the most disillusioning thing would be the realisation that the plays were actually written to an industrial formula, no different to so much film and literature today. Ultimately, though, I believe that art and ideas are the only thing we have approaching a permanent reality. Like all humans, Shakespeare - whoever he or they were - was born, lived and died, but his or their ideas and observations carry on, possibly into eternity. Thats the most impoertant thing for me.
Well, no, it doesn't matter at all, but that doesn't change my fascination. I feel as you do. I always ask Shakespeare enthusiasts this question to gauge their comprehension of his impact on the literary world. It is much simpler to reward a single man for this effort instead of a myriad of individuals. Shakespeare is now more of a myth than a person in my opinion because his work is much bigger than he is. Again, my question wasn't to negate Shakespeare in any way, simply wanted a discussion on the matter. I appreciate your answer.
sorry if my tone came across wrong there Milana. My 'Does it matter?' was a genuine question rather than a judgement and a bit of a rhetorical device to set up my spiel. No, there's nothing wrong with this did he didn't he subject, in fact it's become a genre of storytelling in it's own right really. It was nice to ruminate over your question, thanks for asking it.
The first thing I get from Shakespeare is not to hate tragedy. I hate sad endings, I usually watch the end of a movie before the beginning of it to make sure that the end is good. But then I read Hamlet, and Merchant of Venice (I know the latter was meant to be a comedy, but it's far from it). Although I can endure sad endings better now, I still find it hard to get myself to Othello and Macbeth.Other thing, I learn how to appreciate the power of words. I have always loved poetry, but Shakespeare opens my eyes to so many words and how to play with them. I wrote my first sonnet only after Shakespeare.
Um, yeah, she did play the role: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064621/ and did a bang-up job of it too. Ol' Kate was a firebrand. The only 2 Rhode Islanders I can think of offhand are Katherine Hepburn abd Julia Child - both bigger than life, which I suppose comes from being from a miniature state. Matter of perspective, that. Yes, Shakespeare must be heard to be understood, and heard well to be appreciated. I too have a big voice of the old school (a pox upon microphones for actors, and the AutoTune is an abomination and a stench unto the nostrils of the LORD), and likewise content myself to listening to my mind's voice. Still I find that I have to repeat a line to find the "best" interpretation. (That's the "heard well" part.)
Milana wrote: "I'd recommend The Tempest (my personal favorite), Merchant of Venice, Much Ado About Nothing, and Cymbelline. I prefer some of his lesser known stuff only because it gives you better scope of his g..."Well, Milana, I agree. There are those who adhere to the Oxford heresy (my father is one, and his knowledge of Willy the Shake in encyclopedic). but so far as I am concerned, the whole authorship argument trivializes the ouvre.
Ken wrote: "Milana wrote: "I find reading fiction brings us closer to reality. Although most of Shakespeare's play were exuberant forms of humanity, I believe they illustrates a greater understanding of human ..."Have you seen the BBC production with John Cleese as Petruchio?
I understand myself a little better every time.
Jc wrote: "Have you seen the BBC production with John Cleese as Petruchio?"What play are you referring to?
JT wrote: "Ken, Taming of the Shrew"I haven't watched that play yet.
Jc wrote: "Ken wrote: "Milana wrote: "I find reading fiction brings us closer to reality. Although most of Shakespeare's play were exuberant forms of humanity, I believe they illustrates a greater understandi..."No, but I will watch it now. I love most Shakespeare adaptions.
Thank you.
I have a long list of what I love about Shakespeare, starting with out-Freuding Freud. He knew a whole world about psychology and what motivates us to do the things we do three-hundred years before Sigmund FreudThen there's the poetry. He uses the choicest words for every line of every beat of every scene. Nothing wasted. When I read him, I'm reading pure poetry, on the highest level.
And he gets me to care about his characters. How could I feel sorry for a murderous man who kills his his king for no other reason than to wear his crown? Yet I do feel sorry for Macbeth at the play's conclusion.
I've written a book called, Rap-Notes presents Shakespeare's Greatest Hits (Vol. 1). My goal is to turn on kids to Shakespeare by rhyming and rapping the plots to Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo & Juiiet, King Lear, and A Midsummer Night's Dream. It should be published and in book stores in mid-November.
I feel like there's no reason why middle-school and high-school kids can't get as excited as this group can about William Shakespeare.
I was in high school when I encountered Shakespeare for the first time. My first language is not English, so you can imagine it was not an easy task at first. But the first WS's play that I got has notes that show the extraordinary skill of the poet. I agree that young people should try to read Shakespeare. It's not that difficult when you get used to it, and it's actually full of linguistic wonders. To make rhyming lines with all that stock of words. It's a huge WOW!
I also try to translate Shakespeare in such a way when relating it to my friends that they will be able to sense the funny parts and the sad parts and the thrilling parts of it. Good luck for us. :D
for me its the words, the beautiful poetry in the words
Listra wrote: "I was in high school when I encountered Shakespeare for the first time. My first language is not English, so you can imagine it was not an easy task at first. But the first WS's play that I got has..."Listra wrote: "I was in high school when I encountered Shakespeare for the first time. My first language is not English, so you can imagine it was not an easy task at first. But the first WS's play that I got has..."
Ms. wrote: "Listra wrote: "I was in high school when I encountered Shakespeare for the first time. My first language is not English, so you can imagine it was not an easy task at first. But the first WS's play..."I agree with you completely.
This is one of those really good threads. The thing about Shakespeare is that for some after you "really" encounter him you realize that most of your life because of pop culture he has always been with you. I will give one example. Hamlet is my favorite Shakespeare play (which reminds me I really need to write my review proper for it) and I first sought it out when I first went to college. I saw the adaption with Mel Gibson available on the internet and while the story had me intrigued I went ahead and did research, etc. and found out that it was an abriged adaptation. So I did next logical thing and brought the Kenneth Branagh version which is the complete unabridged one, which for me was 4 hours of awesome.
Now come to find out after doing more reading on Hamlet it seems that my love for this play may be more subliminal than I thought as the earliest movie I ever remembered seeing was "The Lion King" and the story in that movie was based on...
So my point is that Will is always with us in some form even to those who don't want to seek him out and no one can escape him for too long.
Also for those who haven't seen it I would recommend the documentary Looking For Richard which is a dual examination of Al Pachino's production of Richard III and an examination of Shakespeare's continuing present in modern culture.
I love reading Shakespeare and since college have read the lines out loud because that way they resonate. The language is so magnificent that until a few years ago when I finally got to see Shakespeare performed, I focused so much on the language I missed half of what was possible within the plot and classic characters.Since we moved to NYC from the suburbs six years ago, we've seen Shakespeare in the Park at the Delacourte Theatre for free: "Hamlet," "All's Well that Ends Well," and "Much Ado About Nothing."
For our anniversary one year we saw the Royal Shakespeare Company present "Romeo and Juliet" at the Park Ave. armory. Juliet was a pretty tomboy in unlaced high-tops, who swung a whistle on a long chain rather menacingly whenever her parents talked about her marrying Paris. The older characters, including Paris, wore court dress. The younger characters were in transition. Mercutio had peroxided hair, wore pantaloons and tights, but hadn't given up his motorcycle jacket. He was hilarious and sexual and rode a unicycle. Romeo wore blue jeans and rode a bicycle. If this sounds like too much it wasn't.
The dance was done by the younger characters only who did match palms in a round but fast and as part of stomping, ground-slapping dance of flying limbs and gyrating hips. (Great.)
Juliet slept on a loft-like platform and when she said "Parting is such sweet sorrow" to Romeo, she very slightly but unmistakably parted her legs.
My favorite production might be the Globe theater's traveling troupe. The cheap seats are cheap. We saw "A Comedy of Errors" and laughed throughout.
Recently we saw "Hamlet." He seemed much younger than 30 and was embarrassed and mean to Ophelia because she was *returning* his love letters while the parents eavesdropped. Claudius's surveillance was devious and incessant.
Hamlet was suspicious of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern from the beginning but joined them in a school greeting involving a neat pattern of joining arms, bumping each other, and clicking their heels.
And this was more terrific than I can describe--when Hamlet said the "To Be or Not to Be" soliloquy, he ran on stage alone, stood at the edge, and full of wonder and shock, told the audience what he'd suddenly realized! It was profound and he knew it but the *question* had never come to him before.
I know this wasn't the subject, rather the opposite. I love reading Shakespeare but understand the reasoning in essays saying he wrote the plays to be performed and directed considering an audience's sensibility: groundlings to royalty; 17th century to 21st.
I'll always read his plays. I've yet to scratch the surface of the historical plays. And it's been much too long since I read "MacBeth," "Othello," and "Merchant of Venice."
But if you can see a production, see it. The free plays, where they pass the hat, can be inspiring. When the play is laid out just as written, you might as well read it, but you can't know beforehand. (I've disagreed with the most of name reviewers on all thse NYC shows.) A few times we've spent money we couldn't afford to see a version of "King Lear" or "Measure for Measure" that wasn't much better than a movie--yet was still little better.
IMO, no movie of Shakespeare--I see them when I can-- compares to any theatrical production.
Mod
Been super busy and had some stress in personal life but coming out the other side...
Ive really enjoyed this thread and the comments and am still thinking about them.
One of the things I get out of reading S is that there is always something new..and there always seems to be a sense of "everything" being in his plays. Any human emotion or event can be found in the plas. I also find it a huge source of inspiration for writing. I am working on a short film right now. I am making a short black and white silent film with a friend. We are each directing vignettes and then going to edit them together.
Somehow during our writing period of production she said she wasnt sure if she should do it literal as a doc or as fiction. I said...fiction. Go further with fiction. we can talk about so many terrible and difficult subjects via fiction that get distilled for us and easier to digest. I said how in Hamlet in stead of confronting his mother and unce with what he knew of their affair and the murder of his father...he hires actors to act it out. And that is one of the great lessons Shakespeare amnifests for us as artists. Shakespeare has so many lessons written into his work specifically it seems for artists and actors.
Actually I was watching my dvd set of "Playing Shakespeare" the other day...and John Barton has his actors quote many of the lessons within Shakespeare for actors and directors.
As a Shakespeare fan, a teacher, and a playwright, I'm happy to say my book is out today: RAP-NOTES-- Shakespeare's Greatest Hits Vol.1I've taken some of my favorite plays and told their stories in rap and rhyme. Here's a tiny sample of the NURSE part in Romeo & Juiet:
TWO HOUSEHOLDS, IN THE ONE PERCENT AND ABOVE
IN VERONA THEY FOUGHT AND FOUGHT AND NEVER LOVED.
THEY'D BEEN FEUDING FOR AGES, FOR WHAT NONE REMEMBERS,
BUT THEIR GRUDGE SMOKED TWO LOVERS INTO BURNING EMBERS.
A PLAGUE ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES, A POX ON ALL THE MEN
WHO'D RATHER BE RIGHT AND FIGHT AND FIGHT
THAN SHAKE HANDS AND SHOUT, "NEVER AGAIN!"
A PLAGUE ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES, CAPULET AND MONTAGUE.
TWO LOVERS PAID THE HIGHEST PRICE
BECAUSE OF THE TWO OF YOU.
WHO AM I, YOU ASK? I'M THE COMIC RELIEF.
I'M THE NURSE, NO ONES' WORSE AT BEING RELATIVELY BRIEF.
I'LL NEVER SAY ONE WRD WHEN THREE WILL DO.
I'M THE NURSE, AND I CURSE, SO WATCH OUT FOR THAT TOO.
Think of this book as CliffNotes meets eminem meets Shakespeare. I'm hoping middle- and high-school kids can learn to get past any fear they may have and realize that Shakespeare's stories are actually awesome.
You can find my book on amazon, barnes and noble and at www.xlibris.com. Thanks.
My son (age 13) recently read a graphic novel of Hamlet, which he found so hilarious that he insisted we read the original aloud together. We're about halfway through now. We trade off the different parts (he really likes portraying Ophelia, for some reason).I have to explain about 75% of it to him, but he totally understands that Prince Hamlet is smart and sarcastic -- the character is incredibly modern. Up until the slaying of Polonius, it seems like the play could have been a comedy.
My son likes Eminem too. Maybe that helped lead him to the Bard.
I like to read Shakespeare because No other writer ever came up with anything nearly as clever as "Little more than kin and less than kind."
That's from my favorite Shakespeare too.
Hi Sheela-Send me your email and I'll send your son a free copy of my book, Rap-Notes--Shakespeare's Greatest Hits (Vol.1).
Here's a little bit of Hip-Hop Hamlet:
RAPPER 1: Good Prince Hamlet’s melancholy...
HAMLET: What? Should I be bright and jolly?
My dad is dead and my mom’s big folly
Is marrying my uncle, gosh oh golly
Well I guess that’s just fine with me
So fine I say, “To be or not to be?”
Should I kill myself? That’s the question.
Anyone out there got a suggestion?
Should I shuffle off this mortal coil
Or stay alive and try to spoil
What that smiling villain, Uncle Claude
Is trying to do, and prove him a fraud?
RAPPER1: Now a theme of this play, one of Shakespeare’s best:
Is Hamlet mad or just depressed?
By mad I mean off his rocker, OK?
Or is he just faking it to get his own way?
RAPPER 2: We ain’t gonna tell you during this show
Mainly because we really don’t know.
But we do know the guy’s holding a grudge
Wouldn’t you if your mom got dragged through the sludge?
Wouldn’t you if your dad got drugged in the ear?
And then his ghost croaked out, “Get over here.”
RAPPERS: Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark
You can smell it over here. You can smell it over here.
HAMLET: I saw my dad’s ghost in scene 5 of this play,
What he told me chills my bones to this day.
Uncle Claudius, that smiling, wretched villain…
Poured poison in dad’s ear- ‘twas the thing to kill him.
And so he gained the crown, the land, and none other
Than the woman who bore me, the Queen, my “dear” mother.
Frailty, thy name is woman, frailty, thy name is woman, frailty, thy name is woman, ghost what can I do for thee?
And he said, “Hamlet, remember me, Hamlet remember me, Hamlet, remember me, avenge your father’s death.
And I said, “Father, remember thee? Father, remember thee? Father, remember thee? With my dying breath.”
RAPPERS: Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark
You can smell it over here. You can smell it over here.
RAPPER 1: Meanwhile Hamlet loves Ophelia mightily
Why not, she looks like Keira Knightily.
But when he starts acting unharmonious
She tells her dad, his name’s Polonious
This dude gives all kinds of good advice
He won’t follow himself, like he don’t think twice
To tell his son, Laertes, “To yourself be true,”
But when he talks to himself, he lies like a shrew.
He says, “Brevity is the soul of wit”
But goes on and on, there’s no end to it.
“Keep an eye on Hamlet” says he to his daughter
Make sure he does what a good prince oughta.”
RAPPER 2: She reports back that the dude is whack
Polonious that hack comes up with an attack
He tells the new king and his new wife the queen
“Hamlet is mad, he could cause quite a scene”
So my advice is blah blah blah and maybe try
To blah, blah, blah, blah, hire a spy....
And if you're not Sheela's son, you can go to amazon.com and download the e-book or order the soft-cover.
What do I get? I get Life's lessons contained in every line of his plays, even sonnets. Subtle pointers that are as relevant today as they were then. The Bard was an amazing philosopher with a deep insight into human behaviour :)
Bob wrote: "Hi Sheela-Send me your email and I'll send your son a free copy of my book, Rap-Notes--Shakespeare's Greatest Hits (Vol.1).
Here's a little bit of Hip-Hop Hamlet:
RAPPER 1: Good Prince Hamlet’s ..."
I think that's pretty cool what you do there, really. :D
If anyone is interested in reading Shakespeare's works in chronological order, check out my new group: http://www.goodreads.com/group/invite...
I shouldn't be chatting on here, I should be a. writing
b. beta reading
c. doing prosaic tasks
But, here I am cyber butting in to say that I am fascinated by that comment on the evil in people's heart's, NY Ken. I agree - but he shows us the opposite side, too - that is what is so wonderful about Shakespeare, he always shows us the two sides of every argument. Of the plays I've read, he only fails to be fair to a few characters, St Joan amongst them. I remember noticing that as a teenager and seeing how wonderful it was, though I couldn't see others' point of view easily myself, then...
You are forced to feel empathy towards characters who seemed so distant from you when you first started reading. You find yourself questioning all of the feelings you previously felt, your perspective changes and you become to fall in love with characters you should hate.
Here is quote from F Scott Fitzgerald"That is part of the beauty of all literature. You discover that your longings are universal longings, that you’re not lonely and isolated from anyone. You belong."
Shakespeare always make me feel that my life is linked to everyone else's on the planet.
Each time I read Shakespeare, I am pulled into a different world, and I always come back bringing something different with me. Sometimes a new thought, realization or discovery, or just the feeling of awe. Shakespeare has always inspired me. :)
Each time I read Shakespeare, I am pulled into a different world, and I always come back bringing something different with me. Sometimes a new thought, realization or discovery, or just the feeling of awe. Shakespeare has always inspired me. :)
Each time I read Shakespeare, I am pulled into a different world, and I always come back bringing something different with me. Sometimes a new thought, realization or discovery, or just the feeling of awe. Shakespeare has always inspired me. :)
Each time I read Shakespeare, I am pulled into a different world, and I always come back bringing something different with me. Sometimes a new thought, realization or discovery, or just the feeling of awe. Shakespeare has always inspired me. :)
