UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
Author Zone - Readers Welcome!
>
Is it more difficult to write your second book?
I'm in exactly the same position, Harriet, so can fully understand your anxiety. I wrote More Ketchup Than Salsa - Confessions of a Tenerife Barman to see if I could write long length prose after years of writing travel features.It's had surprising success, winning awards and reaching the top spot on Amazon UK travel. However, the second is taking a lot longer as I too have that 2nd book fear that the sequel won't live up to the original. Not a lot I can do about this, apart from write, edit and hope, I guess.
Harriet wrote: "I wrote my first novel just to see if I could write fiction after a career in journalism. I enjoyed the process and I'm gratified that readers and (most) reviewers think the book is good enough to ..."If my own experience of the second novel is anything to go by, Harriet, that added pressure from knowing that there are readers out there waiting for your next book will help to make sure it's a good one. Best of luck.
I wrote several standalone books before coming up with my series and the fourth book in that will be coming out soon. I found that once the first was done I already had an idea for the second and I already had the third plotted out before I'd finished the second and so on. I have just been lucky that way because the ideas have never come so fast and close together before.
That because both Steve and Darren have a series in a style they are comfortable with. They are very different but I love both of them and I'm glad they are flowing well for both of you. Once you hit a style like this, with a series or a character you can follow or develop, you definitely get better. The reader can feel you getting more comfortable with the characters and almost relaxing into your genre.
It's always a comfort to know that others are in the same boat. I'm 44,000 words into the sequel, so I am making progress. I'm not a plotter, so the story unfolds as I go along, although I have a vague idea of where it will all end. I find it most interesting when the characters veer off in a direction that surprises me. I like Steve's comment that readers' expectations make for a better book. One can hope!
Ignite wrote: "That because both Steve and Darren have a series in a style they are comfortable with. They are very different but I love both of them and I'm glad they are flowing well for both of you. Once you..."Having said that, I think they know that they are loved to the point that when we, their readers, think they are flogging a dead horse, they'll listen. Not like the likes of P Cornwell, J Patterson,et al.
Perhaps this sort of close relationship with readers is a bane and an asset?
I wasn't sure if my second book was any good because I'd been so close to it, and my then agent wasn't smitten, though she made some good comments, which I acted on. I now think she was negative because the first in the series hadn't sold.
Another writer friend thought the second one better and should have been firat. Oddly enough I'd written it bas a prequel, but changed the order on the suggestion of the agent. I couldn't face changing it back.
Some like the second one better, some like the first one better, so my fears were groundless.
You'll probably find you have a love it/hate it/ wanna ditch it relationship with your second one. I would leave it a couple of months while you write something else, and then come back to it and see what you think. You may be pleasantly surprised, but you're almost certain to find something which doesn't quite work... and then you can correct it.
I suspect that most writers fret that their work isn't good enough, however many books they've written.
Oh, Patti... You know it's a lovely thing. And Harriet, I spent six years on my own with my words and then I published on the Kindle initially and found, like you, that I wasn't so alone in my little world after all. I met other writers whose experience was just like mine and then I met readers and made friends. And my words were being read! I would't have thought that once upon a time... And everything was suddenly all right. If you know what I mean. :o)And Ignite really rocks and is a mine of wisdom. Stick around Harriet and you'll remain in good company.
As Linda says 'I suspect that most writers fret that their work isn't good enough, however many books they've written'I whole heartedly agree with that. Hardly surprising when I think most of us have gone through quite a few years of rejections with only here and there a teeny glimpse of approval that's kept us going.
TBH by the time I'd finished writing/rewriting Physic Garden (ie ten years) I had quite a few ideas lined up raring to go for Winter Garden. There are always ideas for 'next one' sidling in while I'm working on something. For me it was a change from writing to please my agent, to writing to please me that's taken a lot of pressure off. And added a different pressure. I'd echo what Steve says - you want to make it good enough for other people to read, but it is hard learning to trust your instincts.
Best wishes with the sequel, Harriet.
I'm finding it a little harder to write my second book for one simple reason: wordcount.My first 'book' is a collection of ten short stories that runs to 23,000 words. And as I'm only charging 77p (reduced by Amazon to 72p for some reason), everyone seems pretty happy with that.
But for book 2, I'm determined to at least double the word count, so that I can look at maybe charging a little bit more.
So a collection of short stories of 23,000 words took me over ten years to write. Now I'm aiming at 46,000 words in ten months! With 11,000 words typed up and polished, I'm actually in pretty good shape, but even so...
I guess what I'm trying to say is a rehash of the old adage about bands. You get 10 years to write your first smash hit album, and then 10 months to write the second. The fact that my first book isn't a smash hit doesn't really help matters ;)
Andrew wrote: "I'm finding it a little harder to write my second book for one simple reason: wordcount.Very good point, Andrew. I like the analogy about rock bands and the limited time allowed to produce hit #2 so as not to be a "one hit wonder."
I spent about a year writing Legacy of the Highlands, but then polished, rewrote, edited, etc. for the following two years as I tried to obtain a literary agent. Those two years made a huge difference in the quality of the finished product. In order to ride the wave of Legacy, I've given myself a deadline on the sequel -- as a journalist, I'm accustomed to those -- but I wonder if lacking that unrushed time to polish will make the result less. Less what? Just less.
I'm happy that my question has engaged so many people.
After finishing my first, I was on a roll and the bulk of the second and third books came out quickly.It's the fourth in the series that is taking longer, possibly because I'm trying to develop the characters rather than let them get on with it themselves.
Best of luck, Harriet. If you are finding book 2 harder, chances are book 3 will just pour out of you!
I find it difficult because I have set a bar to reach or surpass in terms of quality and storyline completeness.It's easier that I know my characters more, and I am familiar with my own style of writing that stuff flows.
But its worrying since people are expecting great things, and you worry you can't achieve.
Harrison wrote: "I find it difficult because I have set a bar to reach or surpass in terms of quality and storyline completeness.It's easier that I know my characters more, and I am familiar with my own style of ..."
Precisely. Well put.
I hope not. I aim to have my second book out in time for the Christmas rush, and I've not even thought about it yet. I have a week of rest to let the debut book settle, and then I'm going to tackle it.I won't be using the same characters, so I can't even fall back on that. But, what's life without a challenge? I loved writing the first one :)
It's great to read about everyone's experiences. I'm part way through what will (hopefully) be my second book published for Kindle (I wrote two that I never even tried to publish), and I'm struggling at the moment.Unlike many of those who've commented so far (though not all) my second book isn't a sequel of the first, so I'm not sure whether that lessens expectations or not. I suspect that the whole second book thing is much more of an issue if the first one has been a success (by whatever standard you measure that). My first book was published in June and I think that recent weather conditions have resulted in my grass growing more quickly that my Amazon book downloads, so I don't feel the burden of expectation that others may.
Actually, I have more concerns about what will (to the small number of people who will by then have read the first) appear to be a complete change of direction: The first book is a humorous YA fantasy, whilst the second is a SciFi thriller. That said, perhaps it will be more successful because of that.
So the reason I'm struggling has nothing to do with it being a second book: I've written all my other books while in full time employment. Last March I was made redundant and I'm still out of work, but despite having more time on my hands I can't seem to write! I suspect that it's not actually being employed that makes the difference, but more likely background stress levels.
Never underestimate the procrastination powers of the Displacement Activity when time is no hindrance, Alex. When studying for my finals I would do just about ANYTHING rather than actually get down to it. I used to sit with my head down over the books, notice my split ends, rake around for a pair of scissors, then suddenly there would be half an hour I'd never see again and a growing pile of little hair snippets on the page!I found I had to set myself a target - baby steps! - work for an hour THEN trim me split ends or whatever other thing you feel distracted into doing.
Good luck with it. Stress is terrible. Try not to care but be careful you don't end up like me. I really have to search for things to worry about now!
I found that the second one came as easily as the first because it was a continuation. Ironically the third and fourth were more tricky because they are 'stand alone' but in the same setting.But I've learned so much as I wrote, and then edited, was edited, was proof read, etc over the first that I suspect the subsequent books will be 'better'.
Because of the way things have gone, I'm effectively 'sitting' on three as they go, one at a time, through the brutal process of beating them into shape.
Ignite wrote: "Never underestimate the procrastination powers of the Displacement Activity when time is no hindrance, Alex. When studying for my finals I would do just about ANYTHING rather than actually get dow..."Thanks Ignite. I do try not to care - without getting stressed about it of course ;o)...
I think part of the problem is that when you're out of work, all the things that you've told yourself you should do if you ever get the time suddenly close in on you, and wheras writing seems like a justifiable activity as a break from the stresses of work, becomes something of a luxury you can't afford when the bathroom needs to be tiled,etc...
Anyway - not much to do with 'second books'.
Remember Alex, you're not out of work, you're a writer.Admittedly you're a writer who isn't earning very much professionally at the moment and is looking for some work to just ease the pressure.
I've had mates who have been long term unemployed and I think that you have to be careful not to see yourself as 'long term unemployed' because it can be really debilitating.
Obviously I hope you find something soon, but even then, don't forget, you are still a writer who just happens to be doing something else for a while.
Jim wrote: "Remember Alex, you're not out of work, you're a writer.Admittedly you're a writer who isn't earning very much professionally at the moment and is looking for some work to just ease the pressure.
I..."
Comforting words, Jim and Michael - thankyou. It's really ironic that you had to remind me of that truth given that when I first started consciously to write a book (nearly twenty-seven years ago) it was when I was unemployed, and consoled myself with the fact that if asked I could say "no, I'm not unemployed - I'm a writer!"
Thankyou (again) for reminding me.
I had ten minutes this evening before I had to go out to a meeting and read the 'look inside' bit of your book, and it reads well. I'm not the person to tell you about grammar and stuff, but I enjoyed the bit I read and was drawn into it. So the 'Writer' tag is deserved.
Just a thought but have you thought of looking for bits and bobs of temporary stuff on the grounds that you are a writer?
After all what better reason for doing a weekends gardening or a week labouring for a builder or a couple of days a week dog walking? You're a writer, you're expected to do strange things as research
Jim wrote: "I had ten minutes this evening before I had to go out to a meeting and read the 'look inside' bit of your book, and it reads well. I'm not the person to tell you about grammar and stuff, but I enj..."
Jim - thanks for taking the time to look at my book, and for your feedback.
On the matter of finding odd jobs both to bring some cash in and for research purposes, yes I have considered this (and coincidentally was considering offering my services as a labourer to my builder neighbour who's hurt his back).
It's a sad indictment of how our 'modern' lives seem to have developed that if like me you've come to publishing in later years (I'm sure I've mentioned I'm nearly fifty) then the chances are you'll have acquired loads of commitments (financial and otherwise). My problem is that unless I can pay the mortgage we're going to have to sell our house - not much fun for me, but much worse for my wife and young daughter (who's never lived anywhere else).
Anyway, I'm really grateful for everyone's feedback, but I'm afraid I seem to be responsible for our having strayed from the subject of this thread :o|
I think it gets easier to write the next book in a series because you are comfortable with your characters.I'm having trouble with my latest though because my MC has changed roles to a PI. I'm trying to find a way around getting the information she needs to crack the case. Tough when you don't have the police research facilities. :-(
Just give her an inside contact that she can call on for favours now and then when she really needs something. :o)
Yeah, I have but it's still tricky. I'm mindful of the reviewers saying "In real life that just wouldn't happen." :-(I'll get through it no doubt.
M,Novels are not real life. We're allowed to make stuff up to fit the story.
It's the willing suspension of disbelief, isn't it?
Yes, but you have to ease that willing suspension of disbelief.There is an unwritten contract.
The reader will try to suspend their disbelief.
The writer will try to ensure that nothing is included that would make the readers task too hard :-)
The main thing I think, especially with fantasy, is that it must respect its own internal rules. Ok, if certain people can fly, we know it's not true. It can be true in a fantasy but only if all that class of people can fly and we know why and no-one who shouldn't be able to fly cheats.Am I rambling again? Nurse, fetch my pills please!
The rest will have done you good though. You do need both!
We did have a bit of a discussion a while back, when Ali Cooper was saying how irritating some recent archaeological crime fiction was, when you are an archaeologist - because things aren't done that way. Must be the same for a lot of professions, i think. I'm not a pathologist but I am amazed how much time the 'Silent Witness' team seemed to spend out of doors!
It's true that it is difficult to know more about professions than the professionals.But really a writer only needs to know more about the profession than the readers.
This does have a down-side in that if you suddenly discover your crime fiction is a big hit with police and lawyers you are really going to have to do your homework :-)
There again, you've got a fan base that can help you.
Also I find that most writers do have an area that they are pretty expert on, and if you can bring that into the books (without swamping the book with the difficulties of care-home management or just how 'just in time' procurement works) then you do give the book a depth it might not otherwise have
I agree with Jim that a writer needs to know more about the profession (in their novel) than the readers, but not as much as a professional in whatever field. A great deal of knowledge can be obtained via the Internet or by interviewing a pro in order to get the facts straight. The problem in too many novels is that having obtained all of this information, the writer feels obliged to throw it all into the book, almost turning it into non-fiction. Too much of this and I'll slam a book shut because it takes me out of the story.
I'm a pretty good researcher, having held precisely that job at TIME magazine, but sometimes you have to experience something -- and not just read about it or imagine it -- in order to describe it [hello, E.L. James ;-)]. A female character in my WIP needed to use a handgun. I'd never fired one and neither had she, so I worked with my local police and took some lessons. Now I can describe what various weapons' "kick" feels like as it travels up your arm.
Has anyone else done something similar? I realize I've changed the subject, but I did introduce the initial "trouble with the second book" question!!!
I too am nervous about my second book. I think it's because it's written in a completely different style to my first novel. Although at 60, 000 words in, it's a little late for second thoughts about it. So, I have to wait and see what people think when it's done.
Mark wrote: "I too am nervous about my second book. I think it's because it's written in a completely different style to my first novel. Although at 60, 000 words in, it's a little late for second thoughts abo..."I can empathise entirely Mark (though I'm only 30,000 words into my second book)!
To answer Harriet I've never actually learned a skill purely to write about it, but over the years I've tried a lot of things which have come in useful. So I've used firearms, done pistol shooting before it was illegal, done some martial arts, ridden horses, wandered round the streets of quite a few cities on foot, sat and watched people.And I have a real curiosity for how things work. So when I met a tattooist I had to know the technicalities of how the business hung together, as well as details about inks etc.
My second book will be out within a couple of weeks. I haven't found either of them difficult, but the effort I have had to put in has been different.The first one was about my 2,000 kms walk. During that walk I spoke into a small dictation machine and transcribed it int Word each evening. This meant I dictated about 2,000 words a day for 70 days. On top of that, I had all the script for the blog which I had been keeping for the two year training period. So, an awful lot of words, which constituted the raw data which I had to mine and mould into "Vic's Big Walk".
The second book is also non-fiction. It is about my own experiences living in Cyprus for 8 years, and how so many things are different to what the one- or two-week tourist sees. I wrote much of it at the time (the end of my sojourn in Cyprus was 10 years ago), but for much of it I had to rely on memory, which fortunately still seems to be working quite well, even in my eighth decade. But how I wished I had used the dictaphone during the Cyprus years.
The writing was easy. Making sure I had all the facts and experiences down on paper before knocking it into shape was the hard part, in both cases.
Jim wrote: "To answer Harriet I've never actually learned a skill purely to write about it, but over the years I've tried a lot of things which have come in useful. So I've used firearms, done pistol shooting ..."I too do a lot of research. Fortunately for me this normally entails hanging around in bars listening to musicians, which makes life easier. Unfortunately, I now have to spend a week hanging around in bars listeing to folk music...
Will wrote: "I have to spend a week hanging around in bars listening to folk music..."That's why Guinness was created!
I agree about the second book being more difficult. I, too, wrote my first novel without any real expectations, but it's doing well and people are now asking for the sequel. I almost regret having given into pressure and leaving the ending with a cliffhanger. I do love my characters and very much identify with the female lead, but I'm worried that my second book won't live up to the first. I just don't want to feel rushed and put out second rate material, so I'm taking my time to try accumulate and plot out a worthy story line.
Interesting thread. It always intrigues me as to which book readers prefer (I have 3 fiction titles avaialable, one with a publisher, two Indie) - for this exact reason. Will the second book live up to the first book?
My 'second' book ie the one I'm tripping up over, is acutally my 'fourth'. The first three I had plotted out years in advance and I never dreamt I'd get all three written. So when it came to the fourth book, I brainstormed what -I-thought- was a cracker, wrote 25,000 words to discover it stank. Back to the drawing board!
Ella wrote: "I agree about the second book being more difficult. I, too, wrote my first novel without any real expectations, but it's doing well and people are now asking for the sequel. I almost regret having ..."Ah.
Now that's something worth discussing. Cliffhangers...
Think I'll start a new thread.
Ella wrote: "I agree about the second book being more difficult. I, too, wrote my first novel without any real expectations, but it's doing well and people are now asking for the sequel. I almost regret having ..."Ella - I can't help thinking that you've hit on a critical distinction. When a second book is a sequel, and it's written out of a sense of obligation (either because you've invested all that effort in creating your characters, or because your readership 'demands' it) then surely that must be very different from writing a sequel that you've always intended (and wanted) to write?
I haven't tried it, but I'd have thought that although having a first book that your sequel has to remain consistent with must impose certain restrictions on a writer, it must also reduce the effort required to create the characters or environment you're re-using?
I'm in the same situation as Ella, with readers and reviewers liking my book's story and its characters enough to want more. But this book is more difficult to write, mostly because I don't want to disappoint those readers or produce something that gets a slew of awful one and two star reviews. That's why I started this thread several days ago."Demanding" a sequel might be too strong a word (and I don't respond well to demands anyway). But the longer I considered their reactions, the more I thought they might have a point. I was surprised that some found book one's conclusion open-ended, when to me it was clearly "the end."
So book two now has 50,000+ words and my hope is that when I finish this draft and read it from the beginning it won't suck.
And Alex -- the environment for this book has shifted from Scotland to Argentina and, because some characters were killed off in book one, new ones have had to be invented. The main characters are still there, but they can't be the same people they were in book one or why continue their story? So the challenges are still there. Sorry for rambling...it's late.
My second book of a trilogy poured out of me. And i wasn't even convinced I would do a second book. But once I had the plot line and got started it was amazing how quickly it came together. I would say the third book was the most difficult for me.
Harriet wrote: "I'm in the same situation as Ella, with readers and reviewers liking my book's story and its characters enough to want more. But this book is more difficult to write, mostly because I don't want to..."Harriet - I do see what you mean, and I'm sure my assessment was grossly over-simplified - as I said, I haven't tried it! Do you think it's that the mechanics of writing a second book are more difficult though, or is it that expectations (of oneself or assumed expectations of others) make the process more difficult? Would it be as difficult if the second book weren't a sequel, or is it the case that writing a sequel makes any comparison with one's first book all the more inevitable?
I'm only about a quarter of the way through my second one (not a sequel), but I've no doubt that as I get closer to being in a position to publish I shall worry more about how it will be received. That said, as the first hasn't sold many copies so far I suppose I don't really have any high expectations for a second book to try to fulfil.
Anyway Harriet (and Ella, and anyone else in the same positon) I wish you lots of luck with your second book.
Alex wrote: "Harriet wrote: "I'm in the same situation as Ella, with readers and reviewers liking my book's story and its characters enough to want more. But this book is more difficult to write, mostly because..."For me, its both the mechanics and expectations that I'm finding difficult about the sequel. I have already written a synopsis for a completely different book, one that was completely unplanned and I'm not having any difficulty wrapping my head around writing it. I guess, for me, its just my own issues about not wanting to take anything away from my hard work with my first book or the characters which I worked so hard to define or tainting it in any way with the sequel.
I'm curious to know if other writers have experienced something similar.