Chaos Reading discussion

Thanks guys. For anyone new to the CR Shelves - The idea of all the CR bookshelves is to be very subjective. It's what members of the group recommend - our "best of the best" for whatever broad theme (not genre) goes with that shelf. If you have a look at our shelves, you'll find quite a range of different themes beside loose genres. It's definitely not meant to be an exhaustive list of any book that could fit there.

With each of the shelves, there's a discussion thread where members nominate their favourite books for the theme, and usually discuss the criteria as they go. The hardest set of criteria to pin down was "classics", (although it took a long time for us to decide on what constitutes "Asian" literature too!). To begin with it was actually meant to be "Enjoyable Classics" but the theme evolved over time. The original discussion thread is here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

The idea was always that we would have to figure out how to cull books occasionally so that the books on the shelves kept pace with the group's changing members. The Classics shelf is the first time we've attempted this, so it's an experiment in progress.

We never really did get a clear definition of "Classics", but people are welcome to keep adding their suggestions to this thread, and if the group more or less agrees on a set of criteria, I'm happy to cull anything from the shelf that doesn't fit.

Now I've added a thread for people to nominate the books they want REMOVED from the shelf here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Let the culling commence!

Whitney just came up with a proposal in another thread for a "classics" criterion that I'd be keen to hear opinions on:

My personal take would be pre WWII. My logic being that that was a few generations ago, and also a point where the world took a major turn. Anything written before then that is still popular must have some appeal to humanity that transcends the topical.

What do others think?

A very good idea Ruby,i love reading classics too.

Sounds good to me, and it would help with the culling as well. On a brief glance through the shelf I counted around 15 that were published in the 50s or later.

Too many threads - glad you froze one of them...

So, yes, I can live with a 1945 cutoff - though I think that the author still has to be deceased (I wonder if that's even a problem - probably not too many people have managed to write a "classic" and still be alive 68 years later).

So that would mean I'd have to concede Lord of the Rings, but I'll be fighting even harder for The Hobbit!

I will totally give you The Hobbit! But which shelf, Classic, or Children's Classic?

Classic! I know he wrote it for his kids, but it's so much more than a Children's book, and I'd say the same for Lewis Carroll's Alice, but not for Lewis' Narnia. Now, I'm wondering if there's a connection there: Tolkien & Carroll wrote their stories for specific children, Lewis didn't...

1945 or earlier sounds logical. Immediately coming to mind for an adult shelf are Elmer Gantry,
The Grapes of Wrath, Native Son and The Jungle. I must be in a rebellious mood this morning.

Karen wrote: "1945 or earlier sounds logical. Immediately coming to mind for an adult shelf are Elmer Gantry,
The Grapes of Wrath, Native Son and The Jungle. I must be in a rebellious mood this morning."

Are these books you think should be on the shelf or ones you would nominate for culling?

Adam wrote: "Whitney wrote: "I will totally give you The Hobbit! But which shelf, Classic, or Children's Classic?"

Still written for children though. I would move it."

Definitely not. It's not written at a child's comprehension level. It's written for reading _to_ children, unlike Narnia which can be read _by_ children (of course, YMMV - there are children who read anything, including 4 year-old me).

Karen wrote: "1945 or earlier sounds logical. Immediately coming to mind for an adult shelf are Elmer Gantry,
The Grapes of Wrath, Native Son and The Jungle. I must be in a rebellious mood this morning."

Dear Gods, please don't be nominating more right now.....

My partner just brought up a good point about the 1945 cut off...
What about books like On the Road? Last Exit To Brooklyn? If they're still being read now, surely they're not going anywhere?

Perhaps it depends on your age, but they feel like classics to me.

That's an interesting idea. And we already have the shelves set up to support it. What do people think?

Ruby wrote: "Karen wrote: "1945 or earlier sounds logical. Immediately coming to mind for an adult shelf are Elmer Gantry,
The Grapes of Wrath, Native Son and The Jungle. I must be in a rebellious mood this mor..." Sorry, I misunderstood and thought we were still picking books. I will look at the list.

Ruby wrote: "My partner just brought up a good point about the 1945 cut off...
What about books like On the Road? Last Exit To Brooklyn? If they're still being read now, surely they're not going anywhere?..."

Probably not, but on a previous thread there's the article about books that people in the industry were convinced would endure, and now 'poof'. I'm down with the Modern Classics idea, but I'm not sure how you will deal with criteria on that one.

I'm down with having older classics and then modern classics, if we're voting or whatever.

What I could do is set up a Modern Classics shelf (anything published between 1946 and 20 years ago?). I can move all those books from the "Future Classics" shelf over to that one if they fit. I think we all have our sense of what constitutes a "classic" within those parameters. I'm happy not to define it too much.

I loved [bookcover:To Kill a Mockingbird|2657! That is one of my all-time favorites! I didn't see it on the list unless I missed it.

I didn't see on the list but I could have missed it!
Thanks

If I am reading the classic list correctly, I am seeing several books listed as both classic and children's classic. Examples would be Heidi and Anne of Green Gables. Is this intentional?

Bird Brian wrote: "I nominate Honore de Balzac's Lost Illusions to the Classics shelf. I think it can hold its own against many current inductees, and it made the cut to my "Top 10 Desert Island Picks" shelf.

Unrela..."

Thanks Brian. Some of the threads are Fiction, and some are Fiction AND Non-Fiction (it's usually discussed near the top of the thread, but it's possible that we just assumed "Fiction" for a couple). Happy to start Non-Fiction shelves, but I'd like to see more specific categories. I've started a new thread for suggestions.

Karen wrote: "If I am reading the classic list correctly, I am seeing several books listed as both classic and children's classic. Examples would be Heidi and Anne of Green Gables. Is this intentional?"

Thanks Karen - that was picked up in the CULLING thread. I just haven't had time to update the shelf yet.

I've finally culled the books published after 1945 and moved them to the "Modern Classics" shelf. This is not at all my forte, so if you can see any that are in the wrong spot, please let me know in the appropriate shelf thread.

There were at least 4 authors whose works ended up slit across 2 shelves, which looks a little odd, but I guess we had to draw a line somewhere..

In which case, for the classics shelf I recommend
Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, Northanger Abbey, and Persuasion (I'm not picky about editions)
Journey for Our Time: The Russian Journals of the Marquis de Custine: An Intriguing Look at the Continuities in Russian Politics and Society (I'd recommend an unabridged translation if only I could get my hands on one.)
Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome
The Man Who Was Thursday by G.K. Chesterton
The Blue Castle by L.M. Montgomery
The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis

For modern classics,
The 13 Clocks by James Thurber
The Captive Mind by Czesław Miłosz
The Ark by Margot Benary-Isbert
Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis
The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster
The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle

Thanks, Mary. There are seperate threads for Modern Classics & Childrens Classics though. Maybe you could do a bit of an edit for us? Thanks.

I've definitely gotta update these shelves again soon..

There is? I didn't stumble on it.

I also note that I would recommend all these as classics, pure and simple, not children's classics. And there are several books aimed, or generally marketed, at children in the classics, no doubt because that doesn't keep a book from being classic.

Would "The Thurber Carnival" be considered in this category?

Mary wrote: "There is? I didn't stumble on it."

There is. As you might have seen from some of the early posts in these threads, we went through quite a process of defining what should go where, in order to keep the shelves to a reasonable size, and where to drawn the lines between them. The upshot is that we have a separate shelf for books primarily marketed to children, as well as separate shelves for books pre and post 1945.

Bob wrote: "Would "The Thurber Carnival" be considered in this category?"

It would if you're recommending it.

Also, just a reminder to please use the book title links in your posts. Thanks. :)