Vampire Books Fans, Fangs and Writers discussion

Dark Shadows, was my favorite soap, when I used to watch them. There was nothing funny about it, but think the movie is suposed to be, I think. Jhonnie Depp,is great,with this kind of movie.

I think the biggest mistake people make when writing a book about vampires is it always starts with a bad idea. That was one thing I tried damn hard to avoid when I was writing. I figured characters, dialogue, twists, turns, terror, gore, etc, they can be the best ever but if the basic idea of the book isn't convincing, then my book just won't stand any scrutinizing.
Regardless of how good your characters of settings are etc, etc, etc, if the story is based on a dodgy or bad idea, it's pointless. I think you see this a lot in movies. Why things like Godzilla always suck, because it's damn difficult, maybe even impossible, to make a great movie out of a bad idea. And books are no different. I think this is something a lot of writers suffer from, the pour their blood, sweat and tears into a story and neglect the one killer point, is it based on an original and good idea? Most of the time that answer is no

I'm not an author, so really know just how it works. Yes, it would have to start, with a great idea. Good luck, with your book,

Wow, a lot to catch up on in this thread! I read it all. And back maybe a couple pages ago, I notice some comments were made about blood drinking being a sexual act for vampires. In my stories, it depends upon the vampire. For Carletta, it tends to be a mixture of sexuality and anger, because she was abused by her father; she doesn't kill females, only males. All of those males are potentially her evil father to her. But also there is the sensual pleasure she gets, especially from biting her boyfriend.
Luke, on the other hand (who hates Carletta for a number of reasons), prides himself on being calm, cool, and intelligent, and he claims that the idea of rolling around in the hay with your food is absurd. At the same time, he is a self-admitted hypocrite and doesn't look askance at sharing blood in a business deal and sealing it with sex. Of course, that's with a fellow vampire and not a food source. Whether he always lives up to his "principles" is something to be seen in the course of his continued existence.

Hi, Robert. I like what you say about the importance of a good idea.

Rita, you really must stop reminding us you're not an author. We know, we know! It sounds like some kind of repeated apology that is completely unneeded. If we were all writers, who would be the readers? Granted, we writers read when we can, but those dedicated just to reading have more time to read more books and can give us feedback. Who lives for who, really?

Surely the trouble with having sex only with other vampires is that it's like dating in a village. Sooner or later you've slept with everyone who's remotely interested...

We live for each other. Its like you can't have one, without the other. I used to wright a decent book report, or something on that line.My thing was singing for anyone that would listen, from the time I was about 10 years old.Not so much now, as the older I get the deeper my voice goes. There is a place for everyone,& a duty, to preform it.

Francis, you do, crack me up sometimes. Yes, & chanches are, more than once. You guys have a way, of getting around, as I was told.I haven't read 1 book, except Twilight, where the vampires only, slept with other vampires instead, they sleep with them & humans, & a lot of them at that.Oh, The Vampire Diaries they don't, but more than, Twilight. I don't care who sleeps with who anymore.

Well said, Rita!

Francis: I need to rephrase what I wrote. Oh, for a better memory of what Luke wrote in his journal! Actually, the way he phrased it was more like, "I don't combine dinner with a roll in the hay." Luke doesn't limit his sex life to vampires; he just claims he doesn't consider feeding to be sexual. Nor have I yet decided how many vampires exist in my fictional world. I have only created 5 of them that have names so far, though I have invented a 6th that I have not given a name to because he plays a minor role. There should be a lot more, theoretically, though they probably don't turn too many humans. Mine don't get turned by being bitten but by drinking enough of a vampire's blood. I read once that the idea of vampires existing didn't work mathematically because they would turn too many people for them to have to feed off of; this idea was plainly based on the turning by biting idea. Even in Bram Stoker, Dracula forces at least one of his victims to drink some of his blood (that was Mina; not sure he did this to Lucy,though). He seems to have visited his victims more than once, too. Lucy didn't die or change suddenly, and Mina escaped both death and the change.

I've always preferred the turning-by-drinking-vampire-blood, which is the method I use in S&tM, while my novel has vampirism as a magical/genetic inherited trait.

Blood drinking often isn't portrayed as erotic, although usually is in films, I think. In S&tM it's definitely erotic, and often quite disturbingly so.

Thank you, Robin. We girls do need to stick together, don't you think?

new review

http://vampirekiss1967.blogspot.co.uk...

I haven't forgoten about you. Now I have an Amazone acct. & will be ordering a book,here & there, from them. Just need to finish, what I have on hand. Ok?

Robert wrote: "I think the biggest mistake people make when writing a book about vampires is it always starts with a bad idea. That was one thing I tried damn hard to avoid when I was writing. I figured character..."

Probably because it is very difficult to come up with a fresh new original idea. Many stories become or are formulaic; basically the same story told over and over. Looking over what appears to be selling in the genre right now is depressing; I guess there is a market/readers for some of that stuff. It just doesn't appeal to me. What I write has some strong paralells to other writers but is interpreted in my own way. It is a story I have written for myself to enjoy. If others happen to like it, well and good.

I think my biggest problem is that I can't write to expectations. I keep wanting to fix the stories that follow formulae. As a result I have characters with uncategorisable sexuality, plots with bittersweet ends, and love stories without romance...

There's a huge market out there for paranormal romance, but it's almost entirely written by women for women. But in all of these the romance has to follow fairly strict guidelines, and in the case of vampires it makes the males sexy gods but utterly uninteresting as vampires.

And some of them are so focussed on the romance that the rest of the plot reads as pretext.

Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a lover to a,male human. Are you, wanting or not wanting them, to change the humane?

Surely if it's true love, and if there is to be a happily ever after, the human must become a vampire.

The cultural problem with female vampires is related to society's general perception of the male as the hunter, as the possessor and protector of the female. The male vampire fulfills this role.

Swapping the roles, to get a female as hunter, possessor and protector, is possible, but for most people (women and men) a man who needs protection is not attractive.

Which is all stuff and bother. The fact is that many women love the fantasy of being pursued and possessed by an ultimate alpha male, even if he is a vampire, while at the same time acknowledging that the relationship would never work in reality.

Similarly, many men love the fantasy of being an ultimate alpha male, it's just that we're probably thinking of immediate sexual gratification with lots of women (with lots of fighting and gadgets in between, of course) rather than passionate consummation with one specific woman.

And I quite like the fantasy of being the ultimate alpha female, and while I don't mind a bit of romance mixed in, it irritates me no end to have sexy hot alpha males chasing me around until I submit to their masculine irresistibility (ugh, yuck, leave me alone).

So, for me, absolutely nothing wrong with tough, sexy female vampires, of whatever sexual orientation, so long as they don't spend the whole *&^$ing book obsessing with 'hottie'.

Sigh.

The reason I asked, about 2, vampires being a couple, is that, with the Vampire Diaries, they do have 1 couple like that. Now, in the tv program,they will have 2. I will pick up the new book, today, & see if it goes the same way. In, Elana's Diaries, she became a vampir, & chg. back. LJ smith, takes her characters, to far out there, on different worlds, & characters change from 1 thing to another.What do you think, about the, 2 vampires as a couple? It works out in, VPD. Even in the books. I still like the idea, of switching the rolls,just to see how it works out.

Rita wrote: "Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a lover to a,male human. Are yo..."

Cj Ellisson's Vampire Vacation series features a married couple, with the female being the vampire and her husband as human. They are a devoted romantic couple and the books are quite sexy.

Rita wrote: "Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a lover to a,male human. Are yo..."

My vampires are mostly female as to human males well they are mostly called lunch

Francis wrote: "Surely if it's true love, and if there is to be a happily ever after, the human must become a vampire.

The cultural problem with female vampires is related to society's general perception of the m..."

Having just spent the past weekend in New Orleans, of which part of my time was spent with authors of the paranormal romance genre, I can tell you there is a huge variety of stuff out there. More comments about that when I can collect my thoughts. I got caught up in the storm that shares my name and had a rough time getting home. Anyway:

Francis, as usual, you have hit upon the very things I like: characters with unrecognizable sexuality; plots with bittersweet ends; love stories without romance. Brilliant. I love reading that. IF I can find it. The romance writing indeed has very strict guidelines. It was laughable to hear all the authors I chatted with talking word count as if it were almost all that truly mattered; word count puts you into such and such category/such and such theme. Pffft. I have always been the one to go against the grain. You know how it is written on stone tablets somewhere that: the character MUST grow; must be something that they strive for and can't have; must this and has to be that. Ok, yes there is some of that in my book. The character has ups and downs, conflicts that must be faced and overcome. But it is really all about the journey. Look at Seinfeld; a show about "nothing." No growth, no change; the characters were the same after 9 years as at the beginning. And it was damn fun going on that journey to nowhere with them.
If there is true love and if there is to be a happily ever after, the human must become a vampire. Sigh. Except then I lose interest in the changee. And that is such a true observation:" for most people, men and women, a man who needs protection is not attractive." It has been difficult to show vulnerabilty in my character. Because there becomes a fine line between vulnerability and weakness, and the character cannot be perceived as weak. He reaches a very low point, one he appears not to be able to recover from, and I have a 12 y/o girl who comes to his rescue while all the adults who essentially serve to "protect" him, have only been able to stand helplessly by. I hope this will work for the reader.

Amy wrote: "Rita wrote: "Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a lover to a,male ..." I love your style, Amy. You go get them, ok? I now have an amazon, acct, so will be able to buy a few books there. Have a great day, as a teenage vampire.

Rita wrote: "Amy wrote: "Rita wrote: "Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a love..."

I know that the male always has to be the alfa, but still think the female, could be the alfa, if written right.Victoria, in Twilight, was definately the alfa, after James was killed. She didn't love anybody,but, building an army, for revenge. She was very strong, so why cant it work, as long as the male is also strong? You know, when you are wrighting, it's up to you, as to, who & what, everybody is. Alfa female & weak man, no, that wont work,but if strong, why not? I'm just asking. I like the male & female, vampires, as lovers to.Ok,so what do the 2 of you think?

I have no objection to alpha female vampires, and I don't even mind alpha female main characters falling in love with an alpha male, as long as it's not obsessive. One of my favourite novels recently is Fire (where she's not a vampire but a terrifyingly beautiful monster) which handles the alpha-alpha love story really well.

Stephen Donaldson's Mordant's Need (The Mirror of Her Dreams,A Man Rides Through), imagers not vampires, has a very nice romance between two non-alphas, although it's certainly frustrating at times.

My female vampire main characters are definitely alpha female, and have relationships with non-vampire not-necessarily-alpha males, but it's certainly not 'over her, behind her, beside her, his shaft impaling, thrusting -'

Er.

Razor Blade Smile has an interesting pair of vampire lovers. With eternity ahead of them, they'll split up for decades playing elaborate games that will eventually bring them back into conflict, followed (I assume) by lots of make-up sex.

Romance is fun. If done right. And there's really no reason why it has to be male & female...

We sure know that for a fact. I know,so many people, don't feel, that woman, should always be strong. I know, that we are the mothers, so have to gentle with that, but I like a strong woman, for some reason. What are your feelings on this?

I guess what's important for a good story is that the main characters, the heroes and heroines, are strong when they need to be.

Even in real life that's what we want. When life is relaxed, it's nice to sit with friends in a cafe drinking hot chocolate, eating ice cream, crying over that ba- doing it with the sl- next door, how dare he! But when our children are threatened, then we need to be strong...

When we say "strong" do we mean being smart and brave, being able to face your problems head on? Or, do we mean aggressive?

Or are we asking what they taste like?

Strong, being brave, for somebody you care deeply about, or for self, under the right condition.Aggressive, only for the greater good. Not fighting, unless its for the best for all, in mind,body & soul.No tasting. The fighting mainly, in the mind, that can go far longer than the body.All for love.Mostly, to protect,the ones you love. the kind that can move mountains.

Francis wrote: "Or are we asking what they taste like?"

No, I'm genuinely asking what we really mean by "strong".

Some people believe being strong means being aggressive and arrogant, so I was making sure you guys were on the right page.

(Sorry...)

I assumed we meant inner strength - the ability to stay true to yourself and your chosen goals in the face of adversity.

Arrogance isn't strength, although it can be a source of strength.
Aggression isn't strength; it's just a show, and it often betrays weakness.

Francis, you knew exactly, what I was saying about, strength. It does come from the depeth of our souls. Fighting, is in the mind, not in body.The power of the mind, is so underated, because, its what gets us through hard times. Heart, plays a huge role in the scheme of things.Sometimes it just, boils, down to love. Did we help you out any, Megan?

Rita wrote: "Francis, you knew exactly, what I was saying about, strength. It does come from the depeth of our souls. Fighting, is in the mind, not in body.The power of the mind, is so underated, because, its w..."

Yes, Rita, you did - and thank you, Franics, too :-)

I just loved how you were able to see in my mind, of the way I feel, on strenght!!! Thank you for that. I learned how,a long time ago.

Amy wrote: "Rita wrote: "Why does the male, always have to be the vampire? ,Also, can a female, vampire & male vampire be, a romantic couple? I don't undertstand, why a female vamp, can't be a lover to a,male ..."

You are so funny, Amy, lunch, indeed!!!! Do the males then turn into vampires, or kept human, to feed on later?

Megan wrote: "Rita wrote: "Francis, you knew exactly, what I was saying about, strength. It does come from the depeth of our souls. Fighting, is in the mind, not in body.The power of the mind, is so underated, b..."

You are very welcome.

Robin wrote: "Wow, a lot to catch up on in this thread! I read it all. And back maybe a couple pages ago, I notice some comments were made about blood drinking being a sexual act for vampires. In my stories, it ..."

Robin,I hope, I didn't scare you off, with the information, about my husband. Sorry,it was more information, than you were asking for. I don't do that often,& I'm sorry.

Just watched the whole of Twilight. Not bad, I suppose, although the make up was distracting rather than cool.

I don't get why this is so popular, though. Physically everyone just looks weird, and emotionally it's dysfunctional. Maybe the book's different, but the beginning of the book certainly has the same... ennui? that permeates the film.

Not ennui, exactly. Alienation, perhaps.

It all started with a dream. Stepheine, had never written anything, at the time. When the dream woke her, she just had to wright it down. She wrote, for the teens, but, blew up,to what it has become. It had to be sweet & innosent, for her target audience.What I would like to know is, why are, vampires,witches,were's, etc., so popular now, because, this is what I like to read. Fiction, because I live in the real world, with all the problems,but when I read, it's about all of those things I have mentioned?

To be honest, these books are, very sweet & a little inosent. They were wrighten for, the young teenagers, but, became, a cross over, on the age group. It all started, with a dream. Stephenie, got up, & wrote her dream, down, so as not to forget it. She, had never written a book, before. It just, blew up & out, into much more than she ever thought.

I have theories only...

Vampires have been popular as evil monsters for 200 years. Anne Rice's Interview With the Vampire in 1976 recreated vampires as glamorous and heroic, which was followed by other interesting takes on the vampire: Whitley Strieber's The Hunger, Suzy McKee Charnas's The Vampire Tapestry and, most importantly, Nancy A. Collins's Sunglasses After Dark.

Sunglasses was an urban fantasy full of demonic creatures, and inspired (I believe) the Vampire Masquerade role playing game, an interesting change to the traditional Dungeons and Dragons and the Middle Earth games. Vampire Masquerade was partnered with a Werewolf game and a Mage game.

Films like Interview With The Vampire and Dracula and The Hunger also helped to mainstream vampire consciousness.

Werewolves are a trickier subject, for me anyway. I love Wolf with Nicholson / Pfeiffer / Spader, although they weirdly never say the word 'werewolf'. I wonder if the animalistic nature of the wolves makes sexualising the monster trickier...

Witches are really a separate development. Vampires and werewolves were largely imaginary fears, whereas 'witch' was a label applied to real women, and unbelievable horrors were perpetrated against thousands of women labelled as witches for hundreds of years. Very few words can have such a history of terror associated with them.

I don't know how or where the Wicca movement emerged, but between The Craft, Practical Magic and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the witch as a woman of power, no longer definitively evil, has been reclaimed.

Rita, I have nothing against Stephanie, and the story is okay, mostly.

Bella, a young girl, strangely pale and disconnected from the human world, seems almost destined to fall so absolutely in love with a vampire, who can read minds but strangely not hers, that his stalking and dangerous hunger are perfectly acceptable to her... Has she been destined from birth to be his? Is there more to her family history, an explanation for her strangeness? Can she really recognise the square root of pi, or can she sense his thoughts?

I guess I'll have to watch the next film...

But Edward is, what, 100 years old? Has he really been living like a teenage misfit for all that time? Has he been out exploring the world at all? Or is he so sick of hearing people's thoughts that immortality is the cruelest curse imaginable? You'd think that a hundred years of listening to people's thoughts would drive anyone nuts, and provide plenty of justification for yielding to vampiric hunger.

So, maybe the book is better than the film, I don't know, but it's essentially a love story between a girl who's barely human and a boy who's barely a vampire, and the whole thing is empty of real meaning.

So, why do people like it so much?

Francis wrote: "But Edward is, what, 100 years old? Has he really been living like a teenage misfit for all that time? Has he been out exploring the world at all? Or is he so sick of hearing people's thoughts that..."

Supposedly, it is more popular in the Bible Belt where teen girls are pressured to save sex for marriage while their hormones are racing. Bella's dying to have sex with Edward and waiting to get married sounds familiar to these girls.

Also, I've heard grown women love the stories because it reminds them of their first love.

Personally, the storyline is lousy and gets worse by the book/movie (I never read the books but saw the movies). Edward is a possessive, stalker type boyfriend and unfortunately, many girls find that to be a sign of love. Even Jacob isn't the ideal boyfriend due to his possessive streak and bad temper, but some girls and even women don't get it.

Watch out there, I live in the bible belt, & damn well pround of it, & my state Of Texas. I don't see where you come with, Edward & Jake, are controling. I'm not a teenager,& never liked,a control freak, mainly because, I'm one myself.I like to be in control, of everything around me. Meaning, problems, not people. I've always thought I could fix any problem that comes up. Of course, age, has taught me, that it's imposable. It is, what it is. God is in control, of it all. I keep my eyes wide open,& know,some things, aren't for me to control. But, no, I don't see either of them being controlling, anything, but themeselves.Both could have hurt Bella or even killed her. So who, is controlling, who?

Francis wrote: "But Edward is, what, 100 years old? Has he really been living like a teenage misfit for all that time? Has he been out exploring the world at all? Or is he so sick of hearing people's thoughts that..."

Edward is 93, & even he, went off of the so called, vegetarian diet, shortly after he was turned. He only killed, the bad, guy's, but, as he told Bells, they were all human, & he was ashamed, of what he did.

Rita wrote: "Watch out there, I live in the bible belt, & damn well pround of it, & my state Of Texas. I don't see where you come with, Edward & Jake, are controling. I'm not a teenager,& never liked,a control ..."

The fact that both Edward and Jacob told Bella who to talk too is a sign of possessiveness. Furthermore, Edward broke into Bella's house to watch her sleep. If that is not the sign of a control freak stalker, I don't know what is.

And I wasn't dismissing the Bible Belt or Texas. Somewhere there's an article online that shows how Twilight is more popular in that area than in other places in the U.S.

ETA: Well what do you know! Goodreads itself claims this: http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/32...

Let's not argue again about the whole possessive / control thing. It's subject to different interpretations.

I'm basically puzzled about how people can get so enthusiastic about characters that are so unreal and uninteresting.

I've got nothing against a nice romance, so long as it's interesting. This one is just weird. I can kind-of see that teenage girls might like it, but why all the rest?

(Still, I might as well ask why so many women find Christian's abuse of Anastasia so exciting...)

Francis wrote: "Let's not argue again about the whole possessive / control thing. It's subject to different interpretations.

I'm basically puzzled about how people can get so enthusiastic about characters that ar..."

I can't fathom why both Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are popular. Part of it may be because women are curious about the hype, though many are baffled once they read the books. Or they want to seem cool and read the popular books.

Really, I don't get it either. Is good literature crumbling before our eyes? And why would any woman find the relationships in both series exciting is also beyond me. I honestly am concerned about what it going through those women's minds, but that's a whole other issue.

I have 2 of those books, but no time to read them.When i do have the time, I might be ranting & raving at him.Even before reading a single word, I may rant & rave, about, how she would let him treat her in that manner. Who knows, but that's when, strength, & pride, come into focus,for me.Nobody treats me like I'm enferiar,to anyone on this planet.I guess, Anna, never heard of, womens rights, Ha Ha. Ok, I'm laughing.