Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Kobalos

I've read Swords Against Darkness IV's first three stories; "Mai-Kulala" by Charles R. Saunders, "At the Sign of the Brass Breast" by Jeff P. Swycaffer and "The Reaping" by Ardath Mayhar. Saunder's story is a good if typical Imaro-meets-a-monster-on-the-road tale. Swycaffer's (whom I've never heard of) is a humorous tale set in a fabulous Renaissance Genoa that succeeds at being funny though at 29 pages it's a little long. Mayhar's story has a very well done fairy-tale atmosphere. I'd like to track down some of her other fantasy in the future.

More from "Return of the Sword." Jeff Stewart's "Mountain Scarab" is an account of a lone wolf warrior amid a band of wild mountain raiders. Its plot resembles a Conan plot in many respects. There is no magic in the tale, although superstition plays a role. It's a good action story.

All, I am not sure how Goodreads communicates messages updates/alerts, so please note that...in the event you are participating in the Anthology Group read but not the parallel thread that spawned the Group-Read, you may be missing an interesting discussion on Swords & Dark Magic: The New Sword and Sorcery. The book garnered an awesome author queue but has disappointed some S&S fans.

I can't weigh in yet, having not read that Anthology.

Here is a link to that thread if you have thoughts:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Continuing with "Return of the Sword." Robert Rhodes gives us a clever hero with a decidedly different problem in "To Be A Man." I can't say much without giving away the plot, but this one amused me and grossed me out a little. Fun stuff.

James Enge gives us "The Red Worm's Way," a story of Morlock making a grim and dangerous vigil. Very well told, and solid action.

These two stories demonstrate the range of Sword -and-Sorcery rather well.

Didn't realize you guys were busy reading RoTS over here, now I want to go reread it myself. Lots of great stories in there (and thanks for the kind words on mine everybody).

Bouncing off the last thing Steve said, I really liked Red Worm's Way -- I always wanted more stories of drunk Morlock, but off the top of my head this seems like the only one, though.

Bill wrote: "Didn't realize you guys were busy reading RoTS over here, now I want to go reread it myself. Lots of great stories in there (and thanks for the kind words on mine everybody)...."

Really liked your story. It's one of my favorites so far. While reading it, I had the impression I was seeing an imaginary Frazetta painting of "Thermopylae" or watching a really gritty version of "Fire and Ice" (directed by David Fincher, maybe?)...

Bill wrote: "I really liked Red Worm's Way -- I always wanted more stories of drunk Morlock, but off the top of my head this seems like the only one, though."

"The Singing Spear" falls into that category. Morlock's suffering from withdrawal in that one, if i recall correctly...

So, did anyone who ordered the Ramsey Campbell collection of Ryre tales, Far Away and Never, receive it as yet? I'm curious as I really enjoyed the story that anchored the Swords Against Darkness anthology I recently finished and would certainly enjoy reading more.

Jason wrote: "So, did anyone who ordered the Ramsey Campbell collection of Ryre tales, Far Away and Never, receive it as yet?..."

Hey Jason. I ordered in online via PayPal Dec-29th. Haven't received it yet, but I did receive an auto-response immediately. Somewhere in there, it seemed like a ~10business day turn around was communicated. So hopefully it will appear soon (media mail). It is a gamble though. The website status just says processing today (Jan 16). I think Steve Goble also tried ordering a copy.

For what it's worth I ordered my copy of Ryre last year and did get it in a timely fashion.

Jason, S.E.: I ordered on Dec. 29 as well, have not seen it yet. Website says "processing" as of today. I emailed Necronomicon yesterday to ask what's up, but have not yet heard back from them.

Well, I just got on email from Necronomicon, and my Campbell book will ship today or tomorrow. Health problems have delayed processing, but the cavalry has arrived and fresh hands are getting stuff in order.

Thanks all for the information/updates and I'm glad to hear that they are still fulfilling orders. I'll definitely be ordering a copy today.

Well I finally finished my read Sages & Swords: Heroic Fantasy Anthology and all I can say is what a tough slog it was to get through it.

Mostly all of the stories had no emotion or heart in it and if it weren't for the fact that 1) I hate not finishing what I started and 2) I signed up to participate in this, the inaugural group read for this group, I would have dropped this book after the first few stories.

Three, count them, THREE entries in this collection were worth my time. 1) I really liked Ed Knight's The Morgwa. Perhaps it's my affinity for North American aboriginal stories that made me favour this more, but I really like this one. 2) This wasn't even a story at all but an Interview With R. A. Salvatore. Isn't that ridiculous that this is the second best thing about this collection? Anyhow, R.A. Salvatore's opinions were very similar to mine and I enjoyed reading about his thoughts. 3) Harold Lamb's The Golden Horde.

Oh sure there were some average stories that I found okay to read but nothing that I would discuss with friends & family. David L. Felt's Last Words and Tannith Lee's The World Well Lost were reasonably okay.

After that the quality drop is huge. Perhaps its because this collection's theme is based of off stories that deal with a lot of magic. I don't mind magic but prefer swashbuckling adventure and am like Conan... not too fond of that 'sorcery'.

Another thing about this book is the inclusion of advice and tips for wannabe fantasy writers. They were alright but not relevant to me and really not that interesting either. In all actuality, they were kind of a depressing read. Not the best way to end a collection in my opinion, depress the hell out of your readers.

I've been reading a lot of comments about Rogue Blade's Return of the Sword and I agree, THAT collection is amazing. I have even searched out some of those writers and bought their works such as Michael Ehart's The Tears Of Ishtar I loved some of those stories that much. I think I'll stick closer to that collection for my next anthology read and finally get around to my copy of Rage of the Behemoth. With Sages & Swords, I leave not wishing to seek out any of the works of these contributors. Unfortunately, not recommended.

Sean wrote: "Well I finally finished my read Sages & Swords: Heroic Fantasy Anthology...I hate not finishing what I started and 2) I signed up to participate in this, the inaugural group read for this group, I would have dropped this book after the first few stories..."

Sean, glad you made it through an new anthology, albeit a forced read. Your comments about feeling the need to complete a book at any cost resonates with me (we seem to have a compulsive bunch of folks here...I am thinking of my own compulsion to collect books with engaging covers...how many Frazetta's and Whelan’s do I really need on my shelf?). Anyway, your masochistic dedication to the Group Read is appreciated too. I only wish we had some sort of Schadenfreude award to console members; I hope Rage of the Behemoth restores your faith in the genre. Haven't read that myself. I recently ordered a used copy--turns out it was signed by Bill Ward. Having enjoyed Return of the Sword, I have high hopes for Rage.

Sean wrote: "I have even searched out some of those writers and bought their works [...] With Sages & Swords, I leave not wishing to seek out any of the works of these contributors. Unfortunately, not recommended."

That's the worst thing to expect from an anthology. I was looking for a copy of "Sages & Swords" for the Dabir & Asim ("The Thief of Hearts") story alone at some point, but thankfully it's included in The Waters of Eternity.
Sorry this book didn't work out for you...

Periklis wrote: "I was looking for a copy of "Sages & Swords" for the Dabir & Asim ("The Thief of Hearts")"

The Dabir & Asim story was okay. Perhaps collected together with a bunch of their adventures it would be a more enjoyable read, more fleshed out, and perhaps I would begin to find the characters more amiable. I didn't really connect with the narrator in that one. Perhaps because it was too short of a taste with those characters.

As I mentioned though, not being a fan of reading about spellcasters going around casting magic everywhere in every story started to grate on me while reading this collection. So, an average story to me will become subpar with type of content because I just couldn't get interested. I prefer reading about adventurers, drinking, warring, doing something inspiring and then getting the girl, that kind of thing in my heroic fantasy. Readers that like a lot of magic in their tales, and gravitate toward wizards and spellcasters would appreciate this collection a lot more than I. It may turn what I found average tales to better than average tales because of their interest in magic/magician based stories.

S.E. wrote: "...how many Frazetta's and Whelan’s do I really need on my shelf?"

Not to derail here but, as a fellow cover addict, all I can say to that is, "All of them!"

I finished Swords Against Darkness last week and thought it was a really good read. I wrote a brief review that is neither riveting, nor earth-shattering, and may not be worth your time (reviewing is definitely not my forte). Here's a link to it (I'd replace the url with text if I knew how, but I don't): http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/... Suffice it to say that I found it very entertaining and would certainly recommend it to fans of S&S and heroic fantasy, as well as anyone interested in a slim introduction to what the genre has to offer.

For me the standouts were Poul Anderson's The Tale of Hauk, Dragon's Teeth by David Drake, and The Sustenance of Hoak by Ramsey Campbell...although in truth I could probably list the entire table of contents save a couple. It introduced me to a couple of authors whose work I will definitely make a point of seeking out in the near future as well, and give me high hopes for the remaining four volumes in the series.

Jason wrote: "I finished Swords Against Darkness last week and thought it was a really good read. I wrote a brief review that is neither riveting, nor earth-shattering, and may not be worth your time (reviewing ..."

The Swords Against Darkness series, is probably my favorite anthology series so far. Many authors and heroes discovered here. Tierney's "Simon of Gitta", Drake's "Vettius" and Wellman's "Kardios". The "Ryre" stories are probably my favorite. Campbell writes action-packed/ horror tales, while cleverly deconstructing many tropes of the genre.
While I liked Bruce Jones' story, you're right and it feels a little out of place whithin the anthology.

Jason wrote: "S.E. wrote: "...how many Frazetta's and Whelan’s do I really need on my shelf?..."All of them!""

Thanks for the support! I will keep getting more then. Actually, I do not own any of the 5 Swords Against Darkness books. So... with these reviews I wil find myself going shopping again. I am curious how the subsequent books are in the series (2-5). Anyone read those?

The Swords Against Darkness series is fairly consistent throughout, and shows S and S has a rather broad range of story types. I have them all, and really enjoy them.

Jason wrote: "I finished Swords Against Darkness last week and thought it was a really good read. I wrote a brief review...Here's a link to it..."

Jason, making links is very doable. I post this reply since I suspect many overlook the easy-help menu, so I will reply more broadly.

1) For direct links to BOOK or AUTHOR pages within Goodreads.com, it is best to use the "add book/author" tool/link/button that appears over the comment box.

F2) For generic URLs: the discussion notes in Goodreads use HTML code, but there is no neeed to actually know the code.

When in EDIT/POST mode, look above the comment box. Directly above your reply/comment box there will be a link that says "(some html is ok)". You can click on this, and a help screen will hover over your note (you will not lose your in-progress comments). Simply locate the LINK code, select with a cursor, and press ctrl+C to copy (okay, that is PC centric). Click back on your note, and type ctrl+V to paste.

Then just replace the template options with the URL and TEXT you want to display. Of course, you can PREVIEW before posting....or EDIT after posting to clean any mistakes up.

I recently read the first Swords Against Darkness as well, really great stuff (and always a pleasure to reread Anderson's classic, never realized SAD is where it first appeared).Very impressed with the Tierney, and I tracked down his Simon Magus collection Scroll of Thoth. Now that I know the Ryre stories were collected I'll hunt them down as well, though I don't think it will be easy to find.

Bill, have you read Scroll of Thoth yet? If so, what are your impressions. Also, the Ryre collection is available from Necronomicon Press...although there has been a delay in order fulfillment. Steve Goble should be receiving his any day now, however, based on an email he mentioned somewhere around here that he received from the company.

Bill wrote: "...Now that I know the Ryre stories were collected I'll hunt them down as well, though I don't think it will be easy to find. ..."

Bill, Jason is right. Steve and I (and others?) ordered Ramsey Campbell's Ryre collection "Far Away & Never" (only ~$6 plus S&H) from Necronomicon Press

That press is run by Marc Michaud, who has had some health issues; his daughter Madeleine is juggling college and helping with orders when she can, though she kindly touched base with us. In short, the orders should come through okay but may be not be fulfilled instantaneously. My copy is en route now.

book details
Campbell, Ramsey: Far Away & Never
$7.95 ... Sale: $6.76
Save: $1.19 off... The fantasy tales of Ramsey Campbell . . .

Ramsey Campbell: Far Away & Never, a Necronomicon Press Trade Paperback, x, 116 pages, 5 1/2x8 1/2", $7.95

Ramsey Campbell, best known for his many works of horror and dark suspense, now invites the reader to yet another milieu, Far Away & Never, his uncollected fantasy stories. Through these eight tales of heroic fantasy--four of which feature the inexhaustible swordsman Ryre--the reader is taken on a ride through different times and unlike worlds, all filled with the fantastic creatures and thrilling action one would expect to come from Campbell’s imagination while writing in this realm. Anyone who has read Campbell’s completions of Robert E. Howard’s Solomon Kane stories recognise that he is very capable in this genre, and this collectiononly lends further evidence to his case.

Also included in the volume is Campbell’s unpublished 3700-word contribution to the round-robin novel, Genseric’s Fifth-Born Son, which, while primarily a work of heroic fantasy, also borrows heavily from the "Cthulhu Mythos", and features the "Hounds of Tindalos" in a prominent role.

Most of these stories have been unavailable for nearly 20 years, since their original writing and publication, and Necronomicon Press is thrilled to be able to bring them back into print, together in one volume for the very first time.
All told, there’s many a treat for the reader here--be they a fan of Ramsey Campbell or heroic fantasy in general--in these works which exhibit the best of both worlds.

Thanks for the info guys, for some reason it never occurred to me to check the publisher.

Haven't read 'Thoth' yet Jason -- though I am reading a good s&s collection by a certain Mr. Thummel right now!

Far Away & Never arrived! Woo Hoo.

Hey folks--Looking to take part in this read, however I'm currently without the means of acquiring an S&S anthology. I have a kindle, so I'm wondering if anyone can lend/share any sort of rtf, txt, epub, mobi, or azw? Sorry for being a slacker!

Bill wrote: "Thanks for the info guys, for some reason it never occurred to me to check the publisher.

Haven't read 'Thoth' yet Jason -- though I am reading a good s&s collection by a certain Mr. Thummel right..."

Well first and foremost, thanks Bill. I hope you find a few tales in there that you enjoy and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. If you're reading In Savage Lands I know at least one of them (Mortismagus) will look very familiar.

Seth: Glad to hear it arrived. For me, now, it's just a matter of waiting...

John: Hello and welcome. I wish I had a way to help you out, but I'm on pb only for the anthology read. Good luck.

Jason wrote: "Bill wrote: "Thanks for the info guys, for some reason it never occurred to me to check the publisher.

Haven't read 'Thoth' yet Jason -- though I am reading a good s&s collection by a certain Mr. ..."

Thanks anyways, Bill!

John wrote: "Hey folks--Looking to take part in this read, however I'm currently without the means of acquiring an S&S anthology. I have a kindle, so I'm wondering if anyone can lend/share any sort of rtf, txt..."

John, I understand from another post that you are traveling abroad and cannot easily purchase a book. I do have a purchased Kindle copy of Return of the Sword, that is officially lendable.

I would gladly share this (most everyone here has recommended/enjoyed it...just scan the reviews). Lending electronically would be new for me, since I have never loaned a Kindle book. According to the Amazon site, I would need your (1) name (2)email address...and it limits you to 14days to read it.

My email is teamlindberg@gmail. Write me there or via a GR note, and I will try to send it your way. If anything, it would serve as a good test. I think that is the only electronic anthology I have... Cheers--Seth

Seth,
Thank you so much!!! Email sent! ^_^

My copy of "Far Away and Never" by Ramsey Campbell is in hand at last. Looking forward to reading this one!

Jason wrote: "I'm leaning toward one of these two: Heroic Fantasy or Swords Against Darkness. I may have to flip a coin."

I have read both of these and agree that they are both great choices.

Fletcher wrote: "I pulled Swords Against Darkness IV out of the anthology stack. I've only read the introduction so far. It opens with an Charles Saunders "Imaro" story and ends with my favorite Manly Wade Wellma..."

I'll have to check this one out, I'm a fan of both Saunders "Imaro" and Manly Wade Wellman's stories.

Going for a second Anthology read now, digging into Rage of the Behemoth. Bill Ward's contribution to the Frozen Wastes section completely captivated me (I enjoyed his Wyrd of War story in Return of the Sword too ... I will be hunting for more "Ward" soon...any suggestions?). One the other hand, Offutt and Lyon's story struck me as too silly to enjoy.

The anthology I picked to read was Sword and Sorceress II, edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley. A pretty battered library copy from a library system that's not big on fantasy. I'm surprised (and glad) they haven't weeded it.

S.E. wrote: "I will be hunting for more "Ward" soon...any suggestions?) ..."

Really enjoyed his The Last of His Kind. A wonderful genre-bending take on "Moby Dick" IMO, which I think is available on http://billwardwriter.com/publications/.
I'm hoping for a Bill Ward collection and/or novel in the immediate future...

I actually picked up RETURN OF THE SWORD a while back, and was very pleasantly surprised by it. It reminds me of the old stuff. Always a good thing!

Which of the others should I try next?

Paul wrote: "I actually picked up RETURN OF THE SWORD a while back, and was very pleasantly surprised by it. It reminds me of the old stuff. Always a good thing!

Which of the others should I try next?"

I'm finishing Return of the Sword and it's really good. Try, either Rage of the Behemoth or Demons: A Clash of Steel Anthology.
Alos, have a look at the anthologies shelf of the group.

My anthology read-a-thon is coming to a close. Just wrapped up Rage of the Behemoth, a great sequel of sorts to Return of the Sword. Also read In Savage Lands, by Jason E. Thummel. I recommend all of those as per my reviews. This was a great way to learn about members here and to learn about new authors.

Looking Forward: From the comments here, I am motivated to get my hands on the Swords Against Darkness series. Incidentally, most of Campbell's Rye tales (one of the next group reads) were printed in that series (i.e. anyone with those can participate in the next discussion without ordering the collection: Far Away & Never).

Poll for next group read closes Feb-25th. Looks like "Swords and Mythos" will win a this point. Vote if you haven't yet!

S.E. wrote: "My anthology read-a-thon is coming to a close. Just wrapped up Rage of the Behemoth, a great sequel of sorts to Return of the Sword."

Nice review of RotB. Glad you enjoyed 'Yaggoth-Voor'. Writing 'Mortlock the Footman' tales is fun.

Just finished reading Return of the Sword and it's a first class S&S anthology.I especially appreciated its cohesion and that it serves as a primer for new storytellers writing in the genre. Jason M Waltz has a deep passion and knowledge of the genre, which is evident in the presentation of each story. From the fabulist S&S (Altar of the Moon) opening the anthology to the historical S&S (Red Hands) in the end, RotS has only a few minor notes that didn't fit this symphony of heroic deeds.
Most of my favorite tales fall, either into the "Gemmellian" - heroic last stand category ("The Wyrd of War", "The Battle of Raven Kill"), or stories that fit the "concept of the outsider" ("The Red Worm's Way", "Deep in the Land of the Ice and Snow", "The Mask Oath").
Stories that unfortunately didn't resonate with me were: "Altar of the Moon" - a fabulist(?) take on S&S, "Fatefist at Torkas Nahl" - which felt like an excerpt from a longer, epic fantasy work and "Guardian of Rage" - which started-off as a satire(?) but lost me a few paragraphs in...
Authors whose stories I'll be looking out for in the future include:
- Bruce Durham- "Valley of Bones", who delivered an excellent tale of musket & magic, a military fantasy tale hinting at the absurdity of war and the "irony" of being a "war hero".
- Nathan Meyer - "The Hand that Holds the Crown" who wrote a viceral, cinematic tale full of lyricism.
- Lloyd & Clunie - "An Uneasy Truce in Ulam-Bator" for writing a fast-paced yarn with a very interesting "Heroic Duo".
- Michael Ehart, Angeline Hawkes, Robert Rhodes and Jeff Stewart, for writing stories in the classic mode of the genre, bringing back good memories of the past (the Swords Against Darkness series) with a modern voice.
- Harold Lamb - "Red Hands", a master storyteller.
- Phil Emery - "The Last Scream of Carnage", for writing cinematic prose, along with the pyrotechnic experiments of page layout and mixed media, which reminded me of the best, Alfred Bester books.
To conclude, "Claimed by Birthright" and "The Dawn Tree" showcased the glory of
Flashing Swords Magazine and E.E. Knight's essay on the craft was as enjoyable and insightful as Screenplay or The War of Art.

***

(Thanks so much, Jason M Waltz and Bruce Durham)

Periklis wrote: "Just finished reading Return of the Sword and it's a first class S&S anthology.I especially appreciated its cohesion and that it serves as a primer for new storytellers writing in the genre. Jason..."
I just reread my review from a year ago on my site and I can't believe I left out Bruce Durham's story, especially because I liked it a whole bunch. This book had a lot to do with motivating me to blog about this genre and start hunting down the work of so many of the newer authors building it up. I consider it a much better and more representative collection of what's actually going on in S&S than "Swords and Dark Magic".

Hey, Fletcher, cool blog. I will have to spend some time checking it out.

Steve wrote: "Hey, Fletcher, cool blog. I will have to spend some time checking it out."

Thanks. If only I was more industrious I'd get more stuff posted.

Periklis, Fletcher. Much thanks. Mortlock is my 'everyman', a reluctant hero who would like nothing better than to stay alive so he can return to his wife and daughter.

Periklis wrote: "Authors whose stories I'll be looking out for in the future include:
- Bruce Durham- "Valley of Bones", who delivered an excellent tale of musket & magic, a military fantasy tale hinting at the absurdity of war and the "irony" of being a "war hero"."

I have a couple of free-to-read stories online at the Lovecraft eZine, Periklis. The Crane Horror appeared in issue 1 and The Case of the Galloway Eidolon appeared in issue 5.

Beyond the shameless plug part, I mention this as these stories loosely tie into the Mythos part of Sword & Mythos, discussed elsewhere. The Case of the Galloway Eidolon is a Holmes/Lovecraft crossover that has a rather large REH Easter Egg in it. Actually, it has a couple...

Bruce wrote: "Periklis wrote: "Authors whose stories I'll be looking out for in the future include:
- Bruce Durham- "Valley of Bones", who delivered an excellent tale of musket & magic, a military fantasy tale h..."

Thanks for pointing them out! Regarding "Mortlock", is there a cycle of stories where he's the central character?