Madeline’s review of Habibi (Pantheon Graphic Library) > Likes and Comments
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Wow. You think you're conflicted. This is not the type of book I would ever think to read or listen to. I loved reading your review but still would not have thought to put this on my list of to reads. Then I followed your link to Seth Hahne's review. wRROngg. 'can't wait to get to a book store to see this gorgeous seemingly work of art and not for the boobs. Thanks, great review.
I really do want everyone to read this, because like you pointed out, it's a work of art. And who knows, maybe I'm just being overly sensitive.
Oh, I don't think so. I expect I'll have the same problems you did. But I'll read it, despite those problems.
Madeline, I definitely had the same issues you did.
Nice review. Obviously I disagree on points—since I didn't take such a dim view of how Thompson uses inequity sexuality (I imagine that neither of us would say that he outright celebrates that inequity, but I might be more inclined to think that he puts that imbalance to good narrative use). And where you say the book is about sex, I'd say it strikes me that Habibi is a book about love—and one in which sex plays the role of antagonist (but who knows, maybe you'd agree with that).
I'll agree that I'm interested why Thompson seems happy to draw breasts but seems less comfortable with both male and female genitals. I'm interested in the background of those decisions in his work—what cultural, experiential, or ideological powers direct those choices.
I didn't personally find that he eroticized rape, but then I may not catch your meaning entirely. There was certainly something erotic about Dodola's rape experiences (whether statutory, institutional, or outright assault) for her victimizers, though nothing erotic about it for me as a reader. And this is where personal interpretation and experience comes to play on the text: for me, seeing the pleasure her attackers take in her made the acts seem more vile to me (from a purely emotional aesthetic).
In any case, I like your review because it does a good job laying out some of the myriad reasons that potential readers might be turned off by the book. I think all these distasteful (sometimes disgusting) things work within the scope of the story Thompson's telling and in the end magnify his purpose, but will agree that there are so many triggers in this book that it will overwhelm many readers entirely and distract others from (what my wife and I, at least, found to be) a worthwhile story).
I'd say it strikes me that Habibi is a book about love—and one in which sex plays the role of antagonist.
Exactly - you summed up my feelings on the portrayal of sex in the story much better than I did.
On reflection, I decided that saying Thompson "eroticized" rape was a little much, but all the rape scenes certainly had an uncomfortably voyeuristic feel to them. Of course, I'm sure this was intentional on Thompson's part.
Yeah, I'd agree. I certainly felt uncomfortable and I think that was probably Thompson's aim (it may not have been, of course, but it fits better with my reading of the book to believe this to be the case!). For what I think are narrative reason, Thompson straddles the line between sensualizing sexuality and sensualizing the abuse of sexuality.
He seems to want to make certain we know that sex has no part in the love Dodola and Zam feel for each other, partially by removing its possibility and partially by making it thoroughly unappetizing by its rampant abuse throughout his book.
The book may seem queasily simplistic for its approach, but I think that fits pretty well with my reading of Habibi as parable. This mythologization also helps me deal with Thompson's revelry in orientalist tropes (though still allows the presence of critique along those lines). In some non-parablic interpretations, a lot of the excesses might be inexcusable—so I definitely see where the discomfort comes from (since I don't require that my interpretation be the only valid one).
Any way, thanks for covering a lot of ground in your review that I didn't have space for in my own. (Really, it's such a ranging, complicated book that there may be dozens of other approaches to reviewing it that don't intersect with either of ours—after all, I didn't even touch the orientalism or Thompson's history/interest with religion either.)
So many feeling with this book. It was my first graphic novel and I enjoyed it even though I felt so disgusted at some parts.
It is a beautiful book with fantastic art and a compelling story. You all summed it up better than I could have.
You had me at WOOHOO TITTAYS. I had more issues than you did. But they were the same issues.
Wowie. REALLY sadden that your ugly of the Habibi review story was the breast. Not slavery. Forced imprisonment. Mass killing. Theses topics r not worthy a ugly mention. But nipples r. Agree that story pages r BEAUTIFUL; confused on tit attachment.
Did you not notice the entire paragraph I spent discussing how Dodola spends the story being sexually assaulted almost constantly? Rape doesn't fall under the "ugly" category? It's true, slavery and killing occur often in this book, and they're equally disturbing. But I chose to focus on the fact that Dodola, an otherwise strong, well-developed female character, is shown being raped and/or assaulted for more than half the book, and that sex functions (as a more astute commenter pointed out) as an antagonist and a weapon in this story. The way Dodola is drawn naked on almost every page ties into the unfair sexualization (and, in my mind, exploitation) of the main character that the other characters themselves commit - as I said, although female characters are almost always in some form of undress, we very rarely see male genitalia or even female pubic hair. Again, as I said, sexuality is not celebrated in this book - tits are celebrated, and it felt like just one more way Dodola is exploited in this story.
(if I focused this review on decrying all the horrible things that happen in the book, it would be significantly longer and would take away from my overall impression, which is that this is a wonderful graphic novel)
Madeline this is fantastic. Seth's points are thoughtful, and I agree that sex acts as an antagonist, but my issue with the book was the way the visual execution of the rapes, Dodola, etc. undermined that sex-as-antagonist message -- a point you make eloquently.
THANK YOU for this honest, thorough review. I'm sorry people are acting like you aren't entitled to your opinion when you've gone out of your way to explain why you have them. The biggest problem sounds like it was too male influenced and takes a dangerous turns towards trying to be sympathetic, yet also posing as porn; very awkward angle, be one or the other, not both.
Totally agree with your review. It was beautiful to look at, but the cultural appropriation and constant rape and nudity really made it hard to read.
It's a definitely a fantastic read, and the more uncomfortable aspects of the story shouldn't turn anyone away from it.
Did yo not notice the entire paragraph I spent discussing
You Madeline stop.stalking me I am on to you niga
This is a very beautiful looking book. The artwork is amazing and the story is gripping, even if the timeline seems a bit off. What year is this story set in?
Reading This book as a muslim, i loved the quranic and biblical stories. The part of the Prophet's journey into the 7 heavens and hell looked like i was reading a graphic version of 'inferno' or 'paradiso'.
Sex is unavoidable in this book. I think it was used as a way of eliminating sex as a tool of love. The one man dodola actually wants to have sex with cant have sex with her. Zam destroys his own sexuality almost as a sacrifice of love to dodola, the only.woman he loved and the one he never thought he would meet.again. sex is used as a means to an end. Whether dodola's using it to feed herself and zam or to ensure her livlihood in the sultan's harem (ala sheherrazad). The group of eunuchs who sell themselves to eat or the young slum girl who tries to solicit the old man for money. Thompson tried to rub it in ur face that sex is ugly and brutal and can only harm.
BTW a similar image of harem life is glimpsed also in Indu Sundaresan's 'The Twentieth Wife'. If thompson is using the white man's stereotype of the harem, so is she. And they've both done boucoup research on their respective books.
Life in 'Habibi' is harsh and cruel. Filthy and irredeemable. If ur only problem with the book is rape and the lack of penis, then you need to read the book again. If this book has a theme song, it would be 'we found love in a hopeless place'. The faint glimmer of hope is at the end when the reunited lovers (?) ensure that at least one young girl doesnt have to live the same way dodola did.
Oh, it's allowed in the quran to consummate marriage as soon as she has her period, so in today's american standard dodola's husband is a dirty old man. His redemption comes when he teaches her to read and write and makes her memorize the quran and sunnah. Making Her certainly the most educated of the harem.
Lastly, this is not a very religous book. To dodola and zam, the quran and bible are just stories. I also think thats very telling given their.brutal lives.
If My spelling is a bit gnarly, forgive me. Im using a cell phone to type with.
BTW Madeline: great thought provoking review.
I don't think that the sexual coercion or the aggression that Dodola faces throughout the book are meant to be erotic. In each of those scenes i find them to be terribly disgusting moments which I have a profound and heartfelt sympathy for because she has to face them. I think the reason why Craig Thompson decided to write Zam and Dodola this way is because he was touching on powerful themes regarding shame and discarding people. You notice that Zam feels a lot of shame at his sexual response towards Dodola, and comes to view his penis as a tool of hurt, choosing to clip it off. But the people who should feel shame are the people who are forcing sex onto Dodola. I find a significant contrast there, especially against the backdrop of the religious framework Craig Thompson built everything against. The men in the desert sell food for sex, the sultan sells life for sex, even her first husband sells money for sex. These men are the ones who should feel ashamed for what they have done, the shaitans disgracing the angels, dragging their forms down into the pit. And when they have taken everything they could get from Dodola, they discard her like the trash you see littered throughout the entire book. The using up of mother and then neglecting her, both the earth and Dodola analogous in the story.
I also think it's important to remember that breast are not genitals, but I also don't believe there is anything inherently erotic about them (I think the western mind has created them to be erotic but that they are no more so than say the little pinky. Just another type of fetish if you ask me.)
I have 100% the same opinion as you, had the same issues...and it's too much rape, just too much rape...it becomes disturbing.
I just finished this book. Your review is the first I have read so far, and I enjoyed your perspective and that of those commenting here. I think it's well put that sex is the antagonist in this story, which makes the becoming of a eunuch a symbolic act of love from his perspective.
I thought the same thing about the abundance of breasts and the detail in the many rape scenes, but I did appreciate the raw, unfiltered feel it gave to the story, as their lives were very unfiltered.
Yeah, but their lives were unfiltered only as far as the women were concerned. As I said in my review - we saw a lot of boobs, but almost no vulvas or penises.
This is so true. I loved the art and overall storyline of the book, but was utterly turned off by the sheer amount of time that the female protagonist was shown naked or getting raped. Feeling voyeuristic is a totally apt description- not in a good sense!
I don’t know you, and it’s been six years since you wrote this review so you may have already read it by now, but in case you haven’t, check out Blankets by Craig Thompson, it’s so much better.
I literally just finished Habibi a few minutes ago. Still collecting my thoughts on it. I wasn’t too crazy about it either (apart from the artwork), but I wasn’t too crazy about it for different reasons.
I fell unabashedly in love with Blankets, though. I’d be interested in seeing your thoughts on that (if you haven’t already reviewed it).
Thank you for this well thought out review that mirrors my feelings so well!
Especially TIT-SPLOSION!!
I appreciate anything that exposes me to the history of other cultures, but it is crucial for white male authors to be exceedingly careful when telling those stories. It’s surprising that people defend the tits and constant rape, but I suppose the urge to sexualize women of color is not so much an urge as a deep-seeded patriarchal setting.
Thanks for the review, i now know i won’t read the book because honestly I don’t want to consume anything that just mainly consists of rape
Ohh I wanted to read this book, but at the same time I think I'm gonna have the same problems you did, also I'm not sure if I will feel comfortable with so may rape scenes...I heard that this book had rape, but I thought it was like once or twice, I didn't know it was that many.
Lol amazing review. Thanks so much, I was really apprehensive to read a book involving Islamic mysticism by a white dude and I'm glad you guided me away from it.
Great review. Good point about the consensual sex.
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Robert
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Dec 03, 2011 10:37PM
Wow. You think you're conflicted. This is not the type of book I would ever think to read or listen to. I loved reading your review but still would not have thought to put this on my list of to reads. Then I followed your link to Seth Hahne's review. wRROngg. 'can't wait to get to a book store to see this gorgeous seemingly work of art and not for the boobs. Thanks, great review.
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I really do want everyone to read this, because like you pointed out, it's a work of art. And who knows, maybe I'm just being overly sensitive.
Oh, I don't think so. I expect I'll have the same problems you did. But I'll read it, despite those problems.
Madeline, I definitely had the same issues you did.
Nice review. Obviously I disagree on points—since I didn't take such a dim view of how Thompson uses inequity sexuality (I imagine that neither of us would say that he outright celebrates that inequity, but I might be more inclined to think that he puts that imbalance to good narrative use). And where you say the book is about sex, I'd say it strikes me that Habibi is a book about love—and one in which sex plays the role of antagonist (but who knows, maybe you'd agree with that).I'll agree that I'm interested why Thompson seems happy to draw breasts but seems less comfortable with both male and female genitals. I'm interested in the background of those decisions in his work—what cultural, experiential, or ideological powers direct those choices.
I didn't personally find that he eroticized rape, but then I may not catch your meaning entirely. There was certainly something erotic about Dodola's rape experiences (whether statutory, institutional, or outright assault) for her victimizers, though nothing erotic about it for me as a reader. And this is where personal interpretation and experience comes to play on the text: for me, seeing the pleasure her attackers take in her made the acts seem more vile to me (from a purely emotional aesthetic).
In any case, I like your review because it does a good job laying out some of the myriad reasons that potential readers might be turned off by the book. I think all these distasteful (sometimes disgusting) things work within the scope of the story Thompson's telling and in the end magnify his purpose, but will agree that there are so many triggers in this book that it will overwhelm many readers entirely and distract others from (what my wife and I, at least, found to be) a worthwhile story).
I'd say it strikes me that Habibi is a book about love—and one in which sex plays the role of antagonist. Exactly - you summed up my feelings on the portrayal of sex in the story much better than I did.
On reflection, I decided that saying Thompson "eroticized" rape was a little much, but all the rape scenes certainly had an uncomfortably voyeuristic feel to them. Of course, I'm sure this was intentional on Thompson's part.
Yeah, I'd agree. I certainly felt uncomfortable and I think that was probably Thompson's aim (it may not have been, of course, but it fits better with my reading of the book to believe this to be the case!). For what I think are narrative reason, Thompson straddles the line between sensualizing sexuality and sensualizing the abuse of sexuality. He seems to want to make certain we know that sex has no part in the love Dodola and Zam feel for each other, partially by removing its possibility and partially by making it thoroughly unappetizing by its rampant abuse throughout his book.
The book may seem queasily simplistic for its approach, but I think that fits pretty well with my reading of Habibi as parable. This mythologization also helps me deal with Thompson's revelry in orientalist tropes (though still allows the presence of critique along those lines). In some non-parablic interpretations, a lot of the excesses might be inexcusable—so I definitely see where the discomfort comes from (since I don't require that my interpretation be the only valid one).
Any way, thanks for covering a lot of ground in your review that I didn't have space for in my own. (Really, it's such a ranging, complicated book that there may be dozens of other approaches to reviewing it that don't intersect with either of ours—after all, I didn't even touch the orientalism or Thompson's history/interest with religion either.)
So many feeling with this book. It was my first graphic novel and I enjoyed it even though I felt so disgusted at some parts.It is a beautiful book with fantastic art and a compelling story. You all summed it up better than I could have.
You had me at WOOHOO TITTAYS. I had more issues than you did. But they were the same issues.
Wowie. REALLY sadden that your ugly of the Habibi review story was the breast. Not slavery. Forced imprisonment. Mass killing. Theses topics r not worthy a ugly mention. But nipples r. Agree that story pages r BEAUTIFUL; confused on tit attachment.
Did you not notice the entire paragraph I spent discussing how Dodola spends the story being sexually assaulted almost constantly? Rape doesn't fall under the "ugly" category? It's true, slavery and killing occur often in this book, and they're equally disturbing. But I chose to focus on the fact that Dodola, an otherwise strong, well-developed female character, is shown being raped and/or assaulted for more than half the book, and that sex functions (as a more astute commenter pointed out) as an antagonist and a weapon in this story. The way Dodola is drawn naked on almost every page ties into the unfair sexualization (and, in my mind, exploitation) of the main character that the other characters themselves commit - as I said, although female characters are almost always in some form of undress, we very rarely see male genitalia or even female pubic hair. Again, as I said, sexuality is not celebrated in this book - tits are celebrated, and it felt like just one more way Dodola is exploited in this story. (if I focused this review on decrying all the horrible things that happen in the book, it would be significantly longer and would take away from my overall impression, which is that this is a wonderful graphic novel)
Madeline this is fantastic. Seth's points are thoughtful, and I agree that sex acts as an antagonist, but my issue with the book was the way the visual execution of the rapes, Dodola, etc. undermined that sex-as-antagonist message -- a point you make eloquently.
THANK YOU for this honest, thorough review. I'm sorry people are acting like you aren't entitled to your opinion when you've gone out of your way to explain why you have them. The biggest problem sounds like it was too male influenced and takes a dangerous turns towards trying to be sympathetic, yet also posing as porn; very awkward angle, be one or the other, not both.
Totally agree with your review. It was beautiful to look at, but the cultural appropriation and constant rape and nudity really made it hard to read.
It's a definitely a fantastic read, and the more uncomfortable aspects of the story shouldn't turn anyone away from it.
Did yo not notice the entire paragraph I spent discussing
You Madeline stop.stalking me I am on to you niga
This is a very beautiful looking book. The artwork is amazing and the story is gripping, even if the timeline seems a bit off. What year is this story set in?Reading This book as a muslim, i loved the quranic and biblical stories. The part of the Prophet's journey into the 7 heavens and hell looked like i was reading a graphic version of 'inferno' or 'paradiso'.
Sex is unavoidable in this book. I think it was used as a way of eliminating sex as a tool of love. The one man dodola actually wants to have sex with cant have sex with her. Zam destroys his own sexuality almost as a sacrifice of love to dodola, the only.woman he loved and the one he never thought he would meet.again. sex is used as a means to an end. Whether dodola's using it to feed herself and zam or to ensure her livlihood in the sultan's harem (ala sheherrazad). The group of eunuchs who sell themselves to eat or the young slum girl who tries to solicit the old man for money. Thompson tried to rub it in ur face that sex is ugly and brutal and can only harm.
BTW a similar image of harem life is glimpsed also in Indu Sundaresan's 'The Twentieth Wife'. If thompson is using the white man's stereotype of the harem, so is she. And they've both done boucoup research on their respective books.
Life in 'Habibi' is harsh and cruel. Filthy and irredeemable. If ur only problem with the book is rape and the lack of penis, then you need to read the book again. If this book has a theme song, it would be 'we found love in a hopeless place'. The faint glimmer of hope is at the end when the reunited lovers (?) ensure that at least one young girl doesnt have to live the same way dodola did.
Oh, it's allowed in the quran to consummate marriage as soon as she has her period, so in today's american standard dodola's husband is a dirty old man. His redemption comes when he teaches her to read and write and makes her memorize the quran and sunnah. Making Her certainly the most educated of the harem.
Lastly, this is not a very religous book. To dodola and zam, the quran and bible are just stories. I also think thats very telling given their.brutal lives.
If My spelling is a bit gnarly, forgive me. Im using a cell phone to type with.
BTW Madeline: great thought provoking review.
I don't think that the sexual coercion or the aggression that Dodola faces throughout the book are meant to be erotic. In each of those scenes i find them to be terribly disgusting moments which I have a profound and heartfelt sympathy for because she has to face them. I think the reason why Craig Thompson decided to write Zam and Dodola this way is because he was touching on powerful themes regarding shame and discarding people. You notice that Zam feels a lot of shame at his sexual response towards Dodola, and comes to view his penis as a tool of hurt, choosing to clip it off. But the people who should feel shame are the people who are forcing sex onto Dodola. I find a significant contrast there, especially against the backdrop of the religious framework Craig Thompson built everything against. The men in the desert sell food for sex, the sultan sells life for sex, even her first husband sells money for sex. These men are the ones who should feel ashamed for what they have done, the shaitans disgracing the angels, dragging their forms down into the pit. And when they have taken everything they could get from Dodola, they discard her like the trash you see littered throughout the entire book. The using up of mother and then neglecting her, both the earth and Dodola analogous in the story. I also think it's important to remember that breast are not genitals, but I also don't believe there is anything inherently erotic about them (I think the western mind has created them to be erotic but that they are no more so than say the little pinky. Just another type of fetish if you ask me.)
I have 100% the same opinion as you, had the same issues...and it's too much rape, just too much rape...it becomes disturbing.
I just finished this book. Your review is the first I have read so far, and I enjoyed your perspective and that of those commenting here. I think it's well put that sex is the antagonist in this story, which makes the becoming of a eunuch a symbolic act of love from his perspective. I thought the same thing about the abundance of breasts and the detail in the many rape scenes, but I did appreciate the raw, unfiltered feel it gave to the story, as their lives were very unfiltered.
Yeah, but their lives were unfiltered only as far as the women were concerned. As I said in my review - we saw a lot of boobs, but almost no vulvas or penises.
This is so true. I loved the art and overall storyline of the book, but was utterly turned off by the sheer amount of time that the female protagonist was shown naked or getting raped. Feeling voyeuristic is a totally apt description- not in a good sense!
I don’t know you, and it’s been six years since you wrote this review so you may have already read it by now, but in case you haven’t, check out Blankets by Craig Thompson, it’s so much better. I literally just finished Habibi a few minutes ago. Still collecting my thoughts on it. I wasn’t too crazy about it either (apart from the artwork), but I wasn’t too crazy about it for different reasons.
I fell unabashedly in love with Blankets, though. I’d be interested in seeing your thoughts on that (if you haven’t already reviewed it).
Thank you for this well thought out review that mirrors my feelings so well!Especially TIT-SPLOSION!!
I appreciate anything that exposes me to the history of other cultures, but it is crucial for white male authors to be exceedingly careful when telling those stories. It’s surprising that people defend the tits and constant rape, but I suppose the urge to sexualize women of color is not so much an urge as a deep-seeded patriarchal setting.
Thanks for the review, i now know i won’t read the book because honestly I don’t want to consume anything that just mainly consists of rape
Ohh I wanted to read this book, but at the same time I think I'm gonna have the same problems you did, also I'm not sure if I will feel comfortable with so may rape scenes...I heard that this book had rape, but I thought it was like once or twice, I didn't know it was that many.
Lol amazing review. Thanks so much, I was really apprehensive to read a book involving Islamic mysticism by a white dude and I'm glad you guided me away from it.
Great review. Good point about the consensual sex.
