John’s review of A Clash of Kings (A Song of Ice and Fire, #2) > Likes and Comments

I have been looking for spoilers because I don't want to read that second book. I had a feeling it would be folly. All I want to know is if Joffrey kills his mother at some point? That would be worth a trip to the library.

Currently I'm reading the second one and yet halfway through I still can't see the progress. The description of detailed environment, sentiment and so on do create an epic tone but grow dull when they crowd among few actions. Your comment is more engaging than some of the chapters. I laughed and loved it :)

I came to Goodreads in the hopes to fond a good discussion forum about this book. Perhaps there is an area for this and I am not seeing it? In the meantime, I am glad I came across this review because I am in the same boat with this book. 600 pages through it and am desperately wanting something to happen. The ratio of pointless names to story development is approaching infinity. Let's hope the last third of the book comes through or I fear this might be my last book in this series.

Pi, you can check the forums and groups. I don't use them, so I can't say they definitely do that, but conversations certainly take place there.

One of the problems for me has been finding a discussion about the overall story. The discussions get too bogged down in defending the actions of individual characters. One of the other problems I noticed is that GRRM pretty much does a Scarface and kills characters regardless of whether they deserve it or not. There is no sense of fairness in his writing. Heros are few and far between. You may want to consider starting a discussion group. I bet it will be popular especially with the HBO series starting in March. BTW, you do know that there is no publication date for the next book. That has also pissed off readers. It's hard to talk about a story when it is in the middle. You don't know what it all means or where it is going.

I'd recommended breaking discussion up into sections (Book 1, Book 1+2, Books 1-3, etc) for people at any place in the series. There's no controlling what people do in those discussion groups, though. If they want to defend the annoying characters, they will.

Martin's sluggish production pace is one of the excuses I've used for reading these so slowly. I've heard fans grumble that he'll die with it unfinished.

Book one was the most cohesive. Things started to take on a life of its own in book 2 but I can see having a discussion about the progression of the story to this point. It get's really tough when you throw in the third book. I remember thinking that George Lucas would not live to finish Star Wars but he did it 20 years after episode 6. Miracles never cease. What bothers me is the fact that GRRM does not seem to know where the hell the story is going. I have never heard him say that he has figured out how to end the series. I can only hope HBO will do with a screen play what it seems GRRM can't get done.

I'm reading the second one at the moment and I agree with your review. I haven't fully read it though. Book 1 was so awesome and I don't know why I'm not liking this one as much. It gets so boring.

I urge anyone reading this to hang in there... book 3 is awesome... and book 4... well, we hope that it sets up book 5.

I loved the second book, much more than the first book!

lol how about you write a fantasy novel yourself coz you seem to hate everything about it and would rather read one of your works instead.

PiGuy wrote: "I came to Goodreads in the hopes to fond a good discussion forum about this book. Perhaps there is an area for this and I am not seeing it? In the meantime, I am glad I came across this review be..."

Im glad you said that, I might change my mind about reading it now. Thanks

G RR M has said that he will end the series in a graveyard with snow gusting across the landscape

Bryan wrote: "I urge anyone reading this to hang in there... book 3 is awesome... and book 4... well, we hope that it sets up book 5."

I want to second Bryan - that third book is excellent. By the end of it, quite glad I slogged through this one to get to it.

Book three was better than book two but still not as awesome as book one IMO.

The books all connect. You have to have the patience to let the events build up to the more interesting parts of the story. If you are missing a character, not to worry, that character is still out there just not in the scene at the moment. I have read all 5 and am anxious for the next two.

The series is already more than five times the length of Don Quixote, so I don't feel "patience" quite captures what it demands when it doesn't deliver. Patience is for a few chapters, not a few hundred. However, Book 3 does deliver on every level for an installment in the series. I'm certainly glad I put in the time. I have Books 4 and 5, and am trying to figure out when I can schedule uninterrupted time to read them consecutively this year. When Martin is at his best, I don't want to read anything else or suffer interruptions - which I'm guessing you'd agree with, Melinda.

I would have preferred to read them with no interruptions. The anticipation of what was going to happen next kept me reading even when the story was dragging. I knew that something exciting was coming. It did. I was not disappointed.

Great review! That's exactly how I felt about this book.

Josiah wrote: "G RR M has said that he will end the series in a graveyard with snow gusting across the landscape"

Josiah -- did he happen to mention how many books and years it will take to get to that scene? LoL. I love the man's work but am worried I won't live to see the end of the thing. I suppose people felt the same way about the Hobbit / LoTR series when it was being written.

I did enjoy the book and wouldn't rate as low as 1 star, but I agree with a lot of this. The only chapters that really had me captivated were Arya's, Jon's and Sansa's, with the exception of one of Dany's. Tyrion is a great character, but I found myself flipping ahead to see how many pages until his chapters ended - the same with Theon and Davos. When the first book ended, there was nothing that could stop me from picking up the next. I haven't been left feeling the same at the end of this one. I look forward to A Storm of Swords, but I'm glad of a break to read something else for a bit.

Emily wrote: "I did enjoy the book and wouldn't rate as low as 1 star, but I agree with a lot of this. The only chapters that really had me captivated were Arya's, Jon's and Sansa's, with the exception of one of..."

Hey Emily -- I do the same thing except I don't skip Tyrion. He facinates me. I use www.towerofthehand.com to fill in what happens with the other characters. It's one of the best fan sites I have come across.

Tnx for review!
100% true

I hope i'll enjoy third book.

Vladimir wrote: "Tnx for review!
100% true

I hope i'll enjoy third book."

Vladimir, if you finished the second, you owe the third to yourself. A Storm of Swords is such a well put-together novel, and at least two characters have splendid pay-offs. Hope you enjoy it!

Agree with this review 99%! keep reading, aryas storyline becomes veryvery important, and all the events in this book build up to it!

Emilia wrote: "Agree with this review 99%! keep reading, aryas storyline becomes veryvery important, and all the events in this book build up to it!"

Well Emilia, I've already reviewed Book 3, which is an amazing improvement and piece of work. On 4 now.

The best review of this book!

... being the bravest :)

I avoided continuing the series because of how profoundly stupid I found the Starks. And it seemed a stupidity born, not out of character, but out of Martin's desire to move the plot along. His prose was the only thing that kept me reading.

It sounds like I would have given up on the series anyway, even if I had continued on to book 2.

KD, what struck you as particularly brave about my little review? My negativity towards the work of an obviously talented and popular storyteller?

And Ian, the Starks have drastically differing levels of intelligence. If Sansa annoyed you, she might well always annoy you. But we might have to have a spoiler-heavy discussion to hash out what characters did what wrong.

Your review is in the minority. Check the graph and you are almost alone in your opinion. I take that as bravery because there were popular books I reviewed and rated before and I got hate comments from so many readers.

But I share some of your observations that's why I like your review.

And I appreciate the support, KD! Though I didn't feel particularly brave just writing what I saw in the book. I'm sorry you got hate comments. Certainly this has attracted a couple. I knew we were in the minority - it seems as though the whole series has the 4-5 star average, as though people aren't noticing variations in the quality of the volumes.

But your are very convincing. I haven't read the rest of the books. I first thought that I would stop here but when I read your review (yes, I clicked the link) for Book 3, it made me interested to buy and read it. You are making me indecisive on this. Such is the power of your words.

Oh I've just checked your profile and found out that you are an author! I should get a copy of your book. :)

Honestly, KD, if you finished A Clash of Kings, you deserve it to yourself to give A Storm of Swords a shot. It is the strongest book in the series up to that point and makes good a couple promises from the end of the second. A Clash of Kings is, at worst, the unpleasant bridge to a great third novel.

And yes, I am actually an author. Currently I only have short fiction in a few anthologies here on GR, though I have a novel pending when publishers decide the best release time is. If I'm lucky, it'll be later this year or next.

I'm only on page 378, but I'm actually really disagreeing with this. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you aren't necessarily looking at it in the right light.

You say it's boring, yet I can't seem to put it down (exception being work and such). Using the word Clash in the title might not always mean "fighting." It could indicate the great differences between all four kings. Stanis is generally disliked and worships no gods, yet he's the true heir trying to claim his throne and kingdom, but then you have Renly, the brother who has no right but he has the allegiance of lords. He's fun, handsome, everything people want in a king. Joffrey is a psychopath, which links him to the Targeryans. Then you have Robb, who just wants justice for the public murder of his father and his sisters back. He never asked to be king--that was thrown on him by one of his lords. And he has to deal with all of this and keep his mother safe, all at the age of 14 or 15. And that's just the KINGS. Now, I will agree with you about the sex. I can't help but wonder if he just had an overactive imagination at those times or what. But I'm not going to agree with your "sub-JK Rowling phrases" comment. Martin writes in a style that explores the character's psyche. Bran is going to use phrases like the one you gave as an example. Cat probably would to simplify things to deal with her husband's death. What I was taught was simplicity in writing is better (I, too, am a writer). It definitely deserves a much higher star rating than you gave it.

Colleen wrote: "I'm only on page 378, but I'm actually really disagreeing with this. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you aren't necessarily looking at it in the right light.

You say it's boring, yet ..."

You're welcome to disagree, or to have a different experience of the book than I did.

As far as star ratings - if you hover over them, you'll notice each rating corresponds to a statement. 1 star equals "did not like it." I gave it exactly what it deserved from my experience, just as I gave the first and third books 5 stars, equating "it was amazing."

As for the factual claim that this is actually a "clash" - two or four entities possessing different opinions or identities is not a clash. A clash would be an active and frictive encounter between individuals possessing those traits, and that doesn't much happen in this book. I wish I could agree with you that the style or plotting explored anyone's psyche with notable depth. Catelyn got a bit of that near the end, but hardly anything redemptive for the work as a whole. That comes in the third book, which is a superb piece of work.

I guess you misunderstand what I mean by "clash"--I mean the definition "to be incompatible," which all the kings are.

You know, I might be down for "An Incompatibility of Kings."

Interesting review but I'd give this book an A minus.

So John, I just finished book one. Can I get away with skipping book 2 and jumping to book 3? :)

Alexis wrote: "So John, I just finished book one. Can I get away with skipping book 2 and jumping to book 3? :)"

I'd like to say 'Yes,' but the last third of the novel moves a lot of characters around. It's a hard choice! Maybe give this book a shot, and if you dislike it, consult a Wiki synopsis? It's a gap.

Thank you for your review. I'm only a few hundred pages into this book and I'm finding most of it to be distractingly sluggish. Aryas and Jons chapters are the ones I find interesting me the most, and it's irksome that they are relatively short in comparison to the stagnating chapters that separate them. Their tales engross me, only to suddenly switch to a much less interesting character. If it didn't go against everything in me to skip ahead, I most likely would.

I loved books 1-3, book 3 being my fav to this day. Book 4 was hardest for me to get thru, followed by book 5 as they are chopped up now with half the story characters. No probs at all with book 2, especially battle of the Blackwater.

I am so glad I am not the only one. I found myself skimming through everyone's chapters aside from Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion's. The first three of those characters were sorely missing. I am looking forward to starting book 3 and dreading book 4 after reading the comments here.

This may be a premature comment on my part (I'm only on page 267), but the majority of what you've said in this excellent review mirrors the complaints I shared with my friend. It's disheartening to hear that book 2 won't build up to something more, although I have heard book 3 is excellent from most who are up to date with the series.

You got it

Although I'm a fan of the entire series so far, your review is well-written and well substantiated. Good job.

I agree whole-heartedly. While I loved the prose in Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings droned on in places. Some parts were captivating, while others bored me to sleep--literally. At times it felt like Martin was just shooting for a particular word count, filling pages with useless information. I'm relieved to hear that Storm of Swords bounces back. I'm looking forward to it.

I felt the exact same way about Clash of Kings. Just started Storm of Swords and put it down with a groan at another Davos chapter (Davies? I don't even remember- the character is so flat and boring. A simple sailor am I! A simple sailor am I! - get off it already. I am glad to hear it will pick up if I suffer through.

"There were so many things to look forward to, but they don’t manifest." You summed it up perfectly right there. So much potential, so little realized.

Thank you for this. I'm reading the second book and I just told my friend that I must be defective or something because I'm so BORED with this book, unlike the first one. After reading your review, I now at least have hope for the third and will muscle my way through the rest of the second. :)