Riku’s review of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (Oz, #1) > Likes and Comments
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yep, learned this in school. I think I also remember learning that no one got the analogy at the time and so Baum just decided to keep writing the series as straight up children's fantasy.
mark wrote: "yep, learned this in school. I think I also remember learning that no one got the analogy at the time and so Baum just decided to keep writing the series as straight up children's fantasy."
He is said to have defended it against any political intentions many times...
huh. the opposite of what I recall! perhaps my memory reversed things.
mark wrote: "huh. the opposite of what I recall! perhaps my memory reversed things."
No, no. You got it right. Baum wanted to use the market potential of the book as a children's book - which was so much more than that of a political analogy!
Wow. I had never heard this before! At first it seemed like one of those kooky conspiracy-inspired over-interpretations. There are people who believe that the movie The Shining was actually about how the U.S. government faked the moon landing.
Gregsamsa wrote: "Wow. I had never heard this before! At first it seemed like one of those kooky conspiracy-inspired over-interpretations. There are people who believe that the movie The Shining was actually abou..."
Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick.
One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book?
Riku wrote: "One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book?"
I have no idea. Learning about wacky conspiracies is one of my hobbies, but I've come to realize that attempting to find answers to sensible questions like your own is one step on the road to madness. The logic by which these things operate is not the one you and I recognize.
I wonder how or if they worked in the field of poppies (opium/foreign trade perhaps?)...fun review, I'll never look at The Wizard of Oz the same way again:)
This sounds awfully like Gulliver's Travels, which today is read as a children's story, but in Swift's day if was biting political satire.
David wrote: "This sounds awfully like Gulliver's Travels, which today is read as a children's story, but in Swift's day if was biting political satire."
Swift was one of the best satirists ever. And I think even children get a whiff of it...
Riku wrote: "Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick. One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book? "
Coincidentally I just saw a documentary about this (Room 237) and they think only the movie was about it because they think the director, Stanley Kubrick, was the one who helped faking the moon landing. So in the film he supposed to have put all kind of subliminal messages etc hinting to the moon landing and how it was fake. Also, Kubrick's movie has many differences with the book (I think both the book and movie are awesome nonetheless), so I wouldn't necessarily think that everything that is thought about the movie, is also thought about the book.
By the way, great review! Just finished The Wizard of Oz and had no clue about this economic parable.
DramaQueen wrote: "Riku wrote: "Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick. One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book? "
Coincidentally I just saw ..."
Thanks for that. Kubrick tries to add his own to all the movie I think. Glad that you found the review useful!
I wonder if all this subliminal stuff really works! I mean what is the point of being subliminally convinced that the moonlanding was fake? Next time you hear about it you just switch gears and think that you reasoned it out? that is scary. Must be how capitalism works too!
Read this as a child and never suspected a thing!
I only read the book in the last couple of days, knowing the story from the film I was an unsuspecting reader but I"smelt a rat" from the intro:" [...] the story of "The Wizard of Oz" was written solely to please children today. It aspires to being a modernized fairy tale, in which the wonderment and joy are retained and the heartaches and nightmares are left out." Well, Dorothy cries on at least 10 occasions, and I stopped counting homicides at 41... You judge...
PS thank you Riku for your post, very informative!!
Samuela wrote: "I only read the book in the last couple of days, knowing the story from the film I was an unsuspecting reader but I"smelt a rat" from the intro:" [...] the story of "The Wizard of Oz" was written s..."
I wonder what counted as nightmares then!
who do the various witches represent in the allegory, and more importantly who is czolgosz?
sologdin wrote: "who do the various witches represent in the allegory, and more importantly who is czolgosz?"
Like any good allegory, some questions are best left unasked!
Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what parables could be hidden in the sequels of Oz? :-)
Jodie wrote: "I hadn't heard this! It was an interesting read, thank you :)"
Julianne wrote: "Brilliant"
vraj wrote: "toto was weird a bit"
Hameedullah wrote: "Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what parables could be hidden in the sequels of Oz? :-)"
Brittaney wrote: "I like reading it!"
:) glad to be of service
Please stop spreading these lies. No actual Oz scholars believe this. It was made up by a teacher in the 1960s. Baum wrote a fairy tale for children. He said so. Details here: http://thewizardofoz.info/wiki/About_...
Elisabeth wrote: "Please stop spreading these lies. No actual Oz scholars believe this. It was made up by a teacher in the 1960s. Baum wrote a fairy tale for children. He said so. Details here: http://thewizardofoz...."
Hi, my sources are the economics textbooks I have studied over time. This is a common example given in textbooks for how collective consciousness absorbs economic ideas.
For instance, N. Gregory Mankiw's "Principles of Economics" has a whole section detailing this. Other examples, from just the textbooks I have read, include Roger Arnold's "Economics, 8th Edition", Paul Krugman's "International Economics", and so on.
I am not sure such credible and internationally respected authors and publishers would be "spreading lies". :)
You say no Oz scholars believe this. Could you refer me to some credible sources/books by some credible Oz scholars? Baum's claims, if authentic, might have been politically motivated, in the light of how the whole thing played out after publication. I would love to see some analysis if this is a matter of scholarly discussion.
I was taught the same thing in an American History class in college Riku.
I just gave you a link from an Oz scholar that explains how the whole thing was invented by an economics professor and then repeated by more. You will not find any mention of this theory before the sixties.
Economics textbooks are not experts on children's literature. It is a widespread myth, but there are no sources that indicate it is what Baum intended. The burden of proof is on the people adding to this work of children's literature. And there is simply no evidence for it. Baum never said the book was any more than a fairy tale for children. Your history classes should be looking for primary sources from the 1900s.
The above link was written by Eric Gjovaag, an Oz scholar in his own right, who was given the L. Frank Baum Memorial Award by the International Wizard of Oz Club in 2013.
Here is a more extensive examination of the subject, with notes from many articles and journals:
http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/Populis...
Additionally, The Annotated Wizard of Oz (2000, Norton and Co.) with an introduction and notes by children's literature expert Michael Patrick Hearn, makes no mention of this interpretation. The 94-page introduction examines Baum's influences, including the Theosophy and Suffragist movements, but never addresses political or economic views. This book has an extensive bibliography, with many primary sources. But it doesn't mention the Populist theory because it didn't exist until 1963. It is a theory that even the author does not believe was Baum's intent. (see link above)
I love it when children's books have hidden gems like this. And being unfamiliar with US political history, your review was insightful. Thank you for this tidbit of knowledge.
Excellent historical anecdote that I was not aware of. Thanks for the info.
I'd heard WoO was an economic parable but hadn't read the full story before. You explain is quite well. Makes me wonder if a Teddy Roosevelt character shows up in the sequels.
That is nonsense in terms of what the yellow rick road and the silver shoes represent. Baum was very influenced by Theosophy, and in traditions such as Theosophy/esoteric traditions silver represents a number of things and money is not one of them. Silver can be linked to the moon and it's cycles, alchemy, ie transformation. Gold generally represents enlightenment, ie Dorothy is on the path to enlightenment. As @Elizabeth stated, this reading is quite supported, the economic theory was introduced over 60yrs later and I would call this a revisionist historical reading. This is a esoteric spiritual allegory, not an economic one, and this is not a "theory" it's historically pretty well-established. I have done my research, and the Theosophical Society has an article on Baum and his interest in Theosophy:
Good reads won't let me post the link, Go to the Theosophical Society website and search for the article titled: "Oz - A Notable Theosophist: L. Frank Baum"
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Aug 15, 2013 09:38PM
yep, learned this in school. I think I also remember learning that no one got the analogy at the time and so Baum just decided to keep writing the series as straight up children's fantasy.
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mark wrote: "yep, learned this in school. I think I also remember learning that no one got the analogy at the time and so Baum just decided to keep writing the series as straight up children's fantasy."He is said to have defended it against any political intentions many times...
huh. the opposite of what I recall! perhaps my memory reversed things.
mark wrote: "huh. the opposite of what I recall! perhaps my memory reversed things."No, no. You got it right. Baum wanted to use the market potential of the book as a children's book - which was so much more than that of a political analogy!
Wow. I had never heard this before! At first it seemed like one of those kooky conspiracy-inspired over-interpretations. There are people who believe that the movie The Shining was actually about how the U.S. government faked the moon landing.
Gregsamsa wrote: "Wow. I had never heard this before! At first it seemed like one of those kooky conspiracy-inspired over-interpretations. There are people who believe that the movie The Shining was actually abou..."Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick.
One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book?
Riku wrote: "One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book?"I have no idea. Learning about wacky conspiracies is one of my hobbies, but I've come to realize that attempting to find answers to sensible questions like your own is one step on the road to madness. The logic by which these things operate is not the one you and I recognize.
I wonder how or if they worked in the field of poppies (opium/foreign trade perhaps?)...fun review, I'll never look at The Wizard of Oz the same way again:)
This sounds awfully like Gulliver's Travels, which today is read as a children's story, but in Swift's day if was biting political satire.
David wrote: "This sounds awfully like Gulliver's Travels, which today is read as a children's story, but in Swift's day if was biting political satire."Swift was one of the best satirists ever. And I think even children get a whiff of it...
Riku wrote: "Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick. One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book? "Coincidentally I just saw a documentary about this (Room 237) and they think only the movie was about it because they think the director, Stanley Kubrick, was the one who helped faking the moon landing. So in the film he supposed to have put all kind of subliminal messages etc hinting to the moon landing and how it was fake. Also, Kubrick's movie has many differences with the book (I think both the book and movie are awesome nonetheless), so I wouldn't necessarily think that everything that is thought about the movie, is also thought about the book.
By the way, great review! Just finished The Wizard of Oz and had no clue about this economic parable.
DramaQueen wrote: "Riku wrote: "Wow! Now that was supremely funny. I need to go back to it tomorrow and get another kick. One question, why only the movie? They hadn't heard of the book? "Coincidentally I just saw ..."
Thanks for that. Kubrick tries to add his own to all the movie I think. Glad that you found the review useful!
I wonder if all this subliminal stuff really works! I mean what is the point of being subliminally convinced that the moonlanding was fake? Next time you hear about it you just switch gears and think that you reasoned it out? that is scary. Must be how capitalism works too!
Read this as a child and never suspected a thing!
I only read the book in the last couple of days, knowing the story from the film I was an unsuspecting reader but I"smelt a rat" from the intro:" [...] the story of "The Wizard of Oz" was written solely to please children today. It aspires to being a modernized fairy tale, in which the wonderment and joy are retained and the heartaches and nightmares are left out." Well, Dorothy cries on at least 10 occasions, and I stopped counting homicides at 41... You judge...
PS thank you Riku for your post, very informative!!
Samuela wrote: "I only read the book in the last couple of days, knowing the story from the film I was an unsuspecting reader but I"smelt a rat" from the intro:" [...] the story of "The Wizard of Oz" was written s..."I wonder what counted as nightmares then!
who do the various witches represent in the allegory, and more importantly who is czolgosz?
sologdin wrote: "who do the various witches represent in the allegory, and more importantly who is czolgosz?"Like any good allegory, some questions are best left unasked!
Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what parables could be hidden in the sequels of Oz? :-)
Jodie wrote: "I hadn't heard this! It was an interesting read, thank you :)"Julianne wrote: "Brilliant"
vraj wrote: "toto was weird a bit"
Hameedullah wrote: "Hmmm, interesting. I wonder what parables could be hidden in the sequels of Oz? :-)"
Brittaney wrote: "I like reading it!"
:) glad to be of service
Please stop spreading these lies. No actual Oz scholars believe this. It was made up by a teacher in the 1960s. Baum wrote a fairy tale for children. He said so. Details here: http://thewizardofoz.info/wiki/About_...
Elisabeth wrote: "Please stop spreading these lies. No actual Oz scholars believe this. It was made up by a teacher in the 1960s. Baum wrote a fairy tale for children. He said so. Details here: http://thewizardofoz...."Hi, my sources are the economics textbooks I have studied over time. This is a common example given in textbooks for how collective consciousness absorbs economic ideas.
For instance, N. Gregory Mankiw's "Principles of Economics" has a whole section detailing this. Other examples, from just the textbooks I have read, include Roger Arnold's "Economics, 8th Edition", Paul Krugman's "International Economics", and so on.
I am not sure such credible and internationally respected authors and publishers would be "spreading lies". :)
You say no Oz scholars believe this. Could you refer me to some credible sources/books by some credible Oz scholars? Baum's claims, if authentic, might have been politically motivated, in the light of how the whole thing played out after publication. I would love to see some analysis if this is a matter of scholarly discussion.
I was taught the same thing in an American History class in college Riku.
I just gave you a link from an Oz scholar that explains how the whole thing was invented by an economics professor and then repeated by more. You will not find any mention of this theory before the sixties. Economics textbooks are not experts on children's literature. It is a widespread myth, but there are no sources that indicate it is what Baum intended. The burden of proof is on the people adding to this work of children's literature. And there is simply no evidence for it. Baum never said the book was any more than a fairy tale for children. Your history classes should be looking for primary sources from the 1900s.
The above link was written by Eric Gjovaag, an Oz scholar in his own right, who was given the L. Frank Baum Memorial Award by the International Wizard of Oz Club in 2013. Here is a more extensive examination of the subject, with notes from many articles and journals:
http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/Populis...
Additionally, The Annotated Wizard of Oz (2000, Norton and Co.) with an introduction and notes by children's literature expert Michael Patrick Hearn, makes no mention of this interpretation. The 94-page introduction examines Baum's influences, including the Theosophy and Suffragist movements, but never addresses political or economic views. This book has an extensive bibliography, with many primary sources. But it doesn't mention the Populist theory because it didn't exist until 1963. It is a theory that even the author does not believe was Baum's intent. (see link above)
I love it when children's books have hidden gems like this. And being unfamiliar with US political history, your review was insightful. Thank you for this tidbit of knowledge.
Excellent historical anecdote that I was not aware of. Thanks for the info.
I'd heard WoO was an economic parable but hadn't read the full story before. You explain is quite well. Makes me wonder if a Teddy Roosevelt character shows up in the sequels.
That is nonsense in terms of what the yellow rick road and the silver shoes represent. Baum was very influenced by Theosophy, and in traditions such as Theosophy/esoteric traditions silver represents a number of things and money is not one of them. Silver can be linked to the moon and it's cycles, alchemy, ie transformation. Gold generally represents enlightenment, ie Dorothy is on the path to enlightenment. As @Elizabeth stated, this reading is quite supported, the economic theory was introduced over 60yrs later and I would call this a revisionist historical reading. This is a esoteric spiritual allegory, not an economic one, and this is not a "theory" it's historically pretty well-established. I have done my research, and the Theosophical Society has an article on Baum and his interest in Theosophy: Good reads won't let me post the link, Go to the Theosophical Society website and search for the article titled: "Oz - A Notable Theosophist: L. Frank Baum"
