Poll

Unfortunately, phrasing of the question would be yes. "playing close" ... which is obviously my fault because that was how I phrased the original discussion question. But I voted NO, because I expect what you meant was if I thought she was a Mary Sue or not?

She's close because she's an awesome character.

Jane - I see your point. Is that better?

Whoever made up the term "Mary Sue" for their dissertation or thesis or whatever is in big trouble. The term Mary Sue intentionally covers a broad spectrum of the archetypes that are traditionally used to portray women in books and movies. There are so many different types of Mary Sue's that it really loses it's meaning when it starts getting watered down with nuances and exceptions or different ways that characters can be Mary Sues. And then we have to make a scale and say, "1 to 10, she's a 10 or a 5." or "What Mary Sue characteristics does she have?" or "Why isn't she a Mary Sue?" And then do we make a character who's a 10 a Mary Sue and a character who's a 5 a half-Sue? I could even put Lady Macbeth on a Mary Sue scale and give her a rating. Oh, what an awful word!

I was reading MVS's comments on being accused of writing a Mary Sue, and I found it intersting that she brought up the idea of wish-fulfillment. And to me, the fact that author wish-fulfillment is such a prevalent part of Mary-Sue theory, if you will, is part of what makes the concept inherently flawed, because that operates under the assumption that an author is not wish-fulfilling through an imperfect character that is being tortured. No one enjoys suffering with a character more than I do. And wish-fulfillment doesn't have to be about creating the "perfect" life. It's about creating something different, maybe more exciting, more adventurous, more complicated. And what if an author was soley torturing their character for their own satisfaction: what do we call her then? Besides demented? There are so many holes in the idea of the Mary Sue.

So in response to this poll, I think that Yelena is an Angsty Sue, which is a type of Mary Sue. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's a flaw in the creation of the term Mary Sue and what that covers.

"Whoever made up the term "Mary Sue" for their dissertation or thesis or whatever is in big trouble. The term Mary Sue intentionally covers a broad spectrum of the archetypes that are traditionally used to portray women in books and movies."

I know what you mean Drew, I hope never to read about another Mary or Marty Sue again, if only through selectively forgetting about the term. Mary Who?