Poll

Hello Robert.

I too believe the KJV is the most reliable translation of the Word of God we currently have at our disposal.

Am I to understand then that an individual such as Mahatma Gandhi will not be making it through the Gates of Heaven, presumably because he was Hindu?


"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" Mathew 5:9


I can't think of a more deserving person than Gandhi who fits this description other than the Lord Jesus Himself.


"I Am the way, the Truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but through Me" John 14:6


It is the Lord Jesus who decides ultimately who enters Heaven, and those who do not. I fail to see how someone such as Gandhi will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


In the Holy Bible, we are informed that it is what we keep in our hearts which wil, determine how the Lord Jesus will judge us.


In Revelation 14:12 (End Time Scripture) we are informed it is those believers in Christ Jesus (the saints) who keep the commandments who will be killed, not those who observe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.


I know of no popular Minister who preaches this stance concerning 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.......do you have anyone in mind I can verify with or is this stance one of your own understanding, presumably based on how you, yourself, have interpreted the Word of God?


Derek Prince and Chuck Missler are my own go-to Ministers for spiritual guidance. They both preached the "Whole Counsel of God" and the "Great Commission" of Mathew 28:17-20 along with Mathew 24:14.


"This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world as a witness unto all nations, and then the end shall come. Amen."

Damon wrote: "I can't think of a more deserving person than Gandhi who fits this description other than the Lord Jesus Himself..."

My response: no one (aside from Jesus) deserves to go to Heaven! Was Ghandi absolute perfection? If not, without Jesus there is no salvation.

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Bottom line: I believe exactly what the Bible says.

Damon wrote: "It is the Lord Jesus who decides ultimately who enters Heaven, and those who do not. I fail to see how someone such as Gandhi will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven..."

My response: Without Jesus, there is no salvation. He is THE WAY. He is not JUST the guy who decides who gets in and who doesn't.

That decision is based on FAITH in Jesus (see John 3:18-19)

Damon wrote: "In Revelation 14:12 (End Time Scripture) we are informed it is those believers in Christ Jesus (the saints) who keep the commandments who will be killed, not those who observe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4..."

My response: How you define God's Commandments is critical to understanding this passage.

For me, I let the Word of God define what His Commandments are:

1 John 3:23 - And THIS is His commandment , That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ , and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

John 6:28-29 - Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

There is no verse in the New Covenant that says God's Commandments are the Ten Commandments. People read into the Bible what they think it means.

Hello Robert,

Yes brother, I see your point re the "commandment to Love one another" and I agree that Love is the greatest commandment, but in Revelation 14:12 it states "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (13) And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the name of the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours, and their works do follow them"


There is a clear ref to commandments here, (plural) suggesting 'the' commandments of Moses, and not the commandment of 1 John 3:23.


Anyway Robert, I get the impression we are not going to 'meet' somewhere with regards to my query 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and there is every chance we could both possibly be correct (or wrong) in our interpretations.


I thank you for your time and informed responses and, of course, look forward to seeing you on the 'other side' God willing.


Have a blessed evening in Christ Jesus.

Damon wrote: "There is a clear ref to commandments here, (plural) suggesting 'the' commandments of Moses, and not the commandment of 1 John 3:23...."

There is NO reference to the law of Moses in 1 John 3:23!

1 John 3:23 - And THIS is His commandment , That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ , and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

No reference to Moses.

Robert wrote: "Damon wrote: "There is a clear ref to commandments here, (plural) suggesting 'the' commandments of Moses, and not the commandment of 1 John 3:23...."

There is NO reference to the law of Moses in 1..."

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed .

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed .

Robert wrote: "Robert wrote: "Damon wrote: "There is a clear ref to commandments here, (plural) suggesting 'the' commandments of Moses, and not the commandment of 1 John 3:23...."

There is NO reference to the la..."

Hello again Robert,


I was going to write, "is it really necessary to go putting a curse on me" (but I won't).


If you read the last thread a bit more carefully, you will find I never, in fact, stated Moses was part of 1 John 3:23.


I was merely making a ref to commandments (plural) in Rev 14:12 and the Word commandment (singular), in 1 John 3:23.


I trust this clears this matter up and there will be no more need to go acursing anybody further from hereonin!


Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Damon wrote: "I was merely making a ref to commandments (plural) in Rev 14:12 and the Word commandment (singular), in 1 John 3:23..."

Read all of 1 John 3:23. Two commandments are specifically mentioned.

Faith in Jesus and love.

Also, the original Greek word that is singular in vs 23 is identical to the plural in vs 22 and 24.

I am pleased to see that 75% know what the message of the Gospel is.

Saddened that 25% do not.

It does not get more clear than this!
_________________________________________

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that He was buried , and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Robert wrote: "I am pleased to see that 75% know what the message of the Gospel is.

Saddened that 25% do not.

It does not get more clear than this!
_________________________________________

1 Corinthians 15:1-..."

What is saddening is that you think Jesus erased the laws. When he specifically said in Matthew 19:16-23 to keep the laws AND follow him. Now why would Jesus say this? Oooh that's because Jesus is the new high priest (Hebrews 5:5-10), because like he said MANY times he came to do God the Father's will, not his own. Go back into Leviticus to see what the duties of the priest are. A priest does what? Atones for our sins, leads us to God the Father, ministers to God the Father, upholds the Laws, keeps over the Tabernacle, all of which Jesus is and does. The reason we are cover with Jesus blood is so that when we die we won't die in the presence of God (again go read Leviticus). The priesthood of Aaron ordained Jesus by order of Melchizedek when the Jews had him crucified. Jesus was a sin offering in the flesh, and became the highpriest when he arose. The sacrifice and the priest.
Don't forget in the end times it'll be these people who are saved:

"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands AND remain faithful to Jesus."
Revelations 14:12.

Also....Hebrews 10:26 for those of you who think your exempt from the law and decide to sin willfully. I pray you won't hear the words "depart from me you workers of lawlessness" -Matthew 7:21-23

Ashley wrote: "Robert wrote: "I am pleased to see that 75% know what the message of the Gospel is.

Saddened that 25..."
_____

Jesus NEVER told any believers to keep the law of Moses.

What is very saddening is how people rip the Scripture out of context to promote their agenda. Here is what happens in the account of Jesus interaction with the rich young ruler.
_____

What Jesus ACTUALLY says to the Rich Young Ruler:

* Keep the law
* Sell all your possessions
* Give it all to the poor
* Follow Jesus

What legalists say Jesus said:

* Keep the law
* Follow Jesus

See the difference? See the out of context cherry picking?

Ashley wrote: ""This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands AND remain faithful to Jesus."
Revelations 14:12..."
__________

What the BIBLE says :

Rev 14:12 - the people of God who keep HIS commands

What the ASHLEY says :

Rev 14:12 - the people of God who keep THE TEN commandments
__________

It is really sad that you believe YOU have the authority to ADD TO and/or EDIT the Word of God!

Hello brother Robert,


Could I please ask you if you witness to unbelievers, and assuming that you do, how, exactly, would you go about evangelising to them ie in what context?

Take myself for example, you approach me (hyperthetically speaking) and begin to witness/evangelise to me, how exactly would you go about this? This is assuming we have already established I am an unbeliever in the Faith.

This is not a trick question and I am not trying to trip you up here.


Blessings, Damon.

Ashley wrote: "Also....Hebrews 10:26 for those of you who think your exempt from the law and decide to sin willfully. I pray you won't hear the words "depart from me you workers of lawlessness" -Matthew 7:21-23"

Sadly, God says that YOU are a LAWLESS one.

* You teach that the law was made for you
* God proclaims that the law was made for the lawless
* Therefore, you declare yourself to be lawless

1 Timothy 1:9 - Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the LAWLESS and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Damon wrote: "Hello brother Robert,


Could I please ask you if you witness to unbelievers, and assuming that you do, how, exactly, would you go about evangelising to them ie in what context?

Take myself for ex..."

* I would preach the Gospel (death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus)
* You would respond with repentance and faith (correct response)
or
* You would respond with rejection and unbelief (wrong response)

There are many approaches to preaching the Gospel... but the message has never changed.

If you read the evangelistic sermons in the Bible (the Book of Acts), you will see that every Gospel message to unbelievers was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Hello brother Robert,

Firstly, in the event you ard referring to myself as "the lawless one" then i rubuke this in the name of Jesus.


So, you would preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which i too believe to be proper&correct, but i notice you neglected to add "heal the sick, feed the poor, help the orphans&widows etc;" and generally conduct oneself as an all-round nice guy, which is classified as "works" brother Robert.

Mathew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, "and preaching the gospel of the kingdom" and healing every sickness and every didease among the people.

I too preach and proclaim faithfully the "full counsel of God".......Amen.

Damon wrote: "Hello brother Robert,

Firstly, in the event you ard referring to myself as "the lawless one" then i rubuke this in the name of Jesus..."

Did you make an erroneous reference to lawlessness? If you did, then it is for you. I did not see you refer to a person being led by the Holy Spirit (commanded in the New Covenant) as being lawless.

Damon wrote: "So, you would preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 which i too believe to be proper&correct, but i notice you neglected to add "heal the sick, feed the poor, help the orphans&widows etc;" and generally conduct oneself as an all-round nice guy, which is classified as "works" brother Robert..."

So you teach that faith in Jesus is NOT GOOD ENOUGH ???

Are you saying that faith PLUS works are required????

Hello brother Robert,


It may be that the message you sent Ashley was also forwarded to myself, hence the 'lawless one' remark.

If you are saying this remark was not intended for myself, then I apologise and will move on.


With regards the comment from yourself asking if I believe that faith in Jesus is not good enough???.......I will let the Scriptures answer this question for me.

Please refer to James Chapter 1:16-27 and Chapter 2:8-26 (in fact the whole Book of James is very insightful)

Mathew 4:23 and Mark 1:14 to name but a few verses.


The Lord Jesus told those who he healed not to go and tell anybody of their 'healing by faith' as He wanted this to be an example to us, as followers, to be like Him, that is to say "not to become proud, boastful, puffed-up" which is exactly what the Pharisees were all about.......Being mindful of putting Faith above that of works will hopefully abate&diminish any feelings of 'pride', which the Lord Almighty does not like, not one little bit, no sir.


So brother Robert, seeing as you have been given power and mandate by Jesus Christ Himself to heal the sick, feed the poor, raise the dead etc and so forth, would you, yourself deny something this blessing if they asked for it, or if you knew they needed it and it was in your power to help them?

Damon wrote: "Hello brother Robert,


It may be that the message you sent Ashley was also forwarded to myself, hence the 'lawless one' remark.

If you are saying this remark was not intended for myself, then I a..."

It was not intended for you.

Damon wrote: "With regards the comment from yourself asking if I believe that faith in Jesus is not good enough???.......I will let the Scriptures answer this question for me.

Please refer to James Chapter 1:16-27 and Chapter 2:8-26 (in fact the whole Book of James is very insightful)

Mathew 4:23 and Mark 1:14 to name but a few verses..."

So you DO teach that Jesus' sacrifice is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!

Thank you for admitting that.

Obviously you are unaware of the context of James chapter 2 or the specific examples in this chapter.

Damon wrote: "So brother Robert, seeing as you have been given power and mandate by Jesus Christ Himself to heal the sick, feed the poor, raise the dead etc and so forth, would you, yourself deny something this blessing if they asked for it, or if you knew they needed it and it was in your power to help them?..."

The authority of the believer has NOTHING to do with me (except daily taking up my cross and dying to self.)

Here is the TRUTH in Christ:

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST liveth in me...

I have NO intention of claiming any right or glory for myself. And I CERTAINLY will NOT ADD WORKS to the message of the Gospel.

You seem to be confused and incapable of understanding the difference between the message of the Gospel and the realities of Christian living.

Whatever you say brother Robert, whatever you say.

Have a blessed day. Damon.

Damon wrote: "Whatever you say brother Robert, whatever you say.

Have a blessed day. Damon."

It has nothing to do with what I say...
________________

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that He was buried , and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Damon wrote: "Whatever you say brother Robert, whatever you say.

Have a blessed day. Damon."

Since you did not look into James chapter 2, allow me to reference the two specific examples of works that justify...

James 2:20-21 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (are you advocating child sacrifice?)

James 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? (are you advocating lying and situational ethics?)

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (or is FAITH and God's IMPUTED righteousness the point?)

Hello brother Robert,

I get the distinct impression you and ol' blue eyes have something in common, you both like to do things 'your way'.

I came out of a church that held a very similar stance to yourself, who were hypocritical, lacking brotherly&sisterly love and full of pride ie arrogance (there was a hierarchy, contrary to Scriptural guidance).

I wish you&your way well, but don't have much optimism it will work out the way you imagined it would brother (although I could be wrong, we shall see).

Damon wrote: "Hello brother Robert,

I get the distinct impression you and ol' blue eyes have something in common, you both like to do things 'your way'.

I came out of a church that held a very similar stance t..."

It is NOT LOVE to allow people to preach a Jesus Who's sacrifice is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

That is the opposite of love. That is hatred for God and others.

Proverbs 27:6 - Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Damon wrote: "..."

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed .

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed .

Jesus, Paul, and all the apostles and early church leaders preached the same message.

FAITH in Jesus!

Like I didn't see 'that' coming brother Robert.

You know, there 'is' more verse in the Holy Bible than those few you've taken to heart (literally).

Try expanding a little on the Good Book, you might actually understand the True meaning of the Word.

Sorry if I sound unkind, this is how I strongly feel.


May you give brother Robert eyes to see and ears to hear Lord (sometime soon please).

Damon wrote: "May you give brother Robert eyes to see and ears to hear Lord (sometime soon please)...."

I have absolutely ZERO DESIRE to join you in railing against Jesus and His sacrifice for my sins.

My Jesus is MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH!

You should repent and trust Him and His righteousness and His sanctification.

God bless, I am new to goodreads and the Christian Readers group and I was looking at this poll you have. I believe that they preached Jesus, death, burial and the resurrection.
There are many supporting scriptures, but one we looked at in Church this week was Acts 17v18. The Apostle Paul is in Athens at 'mars hill' (Acts 17v15-34). The people were full of idolatry, superstition and worshipping in ignorance to THE UNKNOWN GOD (v23). Verse 18 states 'he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection'.
Also, please consider 1 Corinthians 15 v1-4.
Kind regards, Richard.