Poll

Look at Trump as purposeful and revealing. No one can be swayed to any thing, IF their faith is strong. People have endured torture of every variety and clung to their belief, and yet others have folded at the mere mention of a needle beneath a fingernail. Trump is not the cause. He is symptomatic of the issue and he would not exist without the fear that he may be correct. I think that Trump may have warned the world that this is an issue that needs addressing before it delivers its own, from frustration born of humans who are indecisive.
Plus - and I object to this, but it is still true. No battle is won without understanding the necessity and inevitability of collateral damage. I am cannon fodder. I know that.

It's not a matter of 'deserve'. Does anybody deserve anything? We all start out naked and with just our skills, and fate rolls the dice. People born into affluence end up in the gutters. People born into poverty equally end up successful. Suck it up and make the best of what the Universe gave you. But! That does not give anybody the right to take the life of another, and equally it does not give us the right to give recidivists a cut lunch, $50 and a pat on the back. Let's be pragmatic. If it were your child, raped and butchered, would you really welcome the chef over to cook you a beef lasagne? I doubt you would. Would you want to think that after chewing on your childs upper arm, that the law allowed them to wander off and inflict the same torment on someone else's family? Again, I think not. If Jeffrey Dahmer moved in next door, would you not interfere and report the stench? What about Martin Bryant? Gunning down nearly 50 people at Port Arthur, just because he's had a shitty day. How about Waco, Texas? One of my clients was a survivor of Waco, and her life was so not pretty. How about Jones Town? Off to make cordial anyone? You don't want these killers living next door, but some of you don't want the responsibility of deciding to pull the trigger. Fair enough, but it all comes down to perspective, doesn't it. A person intent on harming me or mine, I don't want them to date any of my children, or eat their body parts. (P.s fyi. Human flesh apparently tastes like pork, so I am told by a member of a formally cannibalistic tribe from Papua New Guinea. Fun fact for the day. ) I personally think that it is the most compassionate thing to euthanise a human who is beyond rehabilitation and is determined to kill. They kill fellow prisoners, too.
So, kill them or give them isolation and gruel for the rest of their days. Rant over. :)

Carmel wrote: "Iona, let's be quite clear - nobody knows with accuracy what Jesus said. The text of his words and message has been changed so many times by so many people in so many different bibles and belief sy..."

Carmel, I accept your argument. I was using Jesus´words, if he indeed said them, which I believe, to illustrate what I myself believe. I believe we shoulld not kill, and thus should not kill even others who kill. That must be obvious.

James Morcan wrote: "Carmel wrote: "Iona, let's be quite clear - nobody knows with accuracy what Jesus said. The text of his words and message has been changed so many times by so many people in so many different bible..."

James, You have a low opinion of Christ if you think he could be provoked to support the death penalty. I am not acquiescing crime - all dangerous criminals should be kept securely imprisoned to protect the public, that is the number one priority, but their psyche should also be investigated, they should be listened to and understood (I can already hear your protests), treated and loved, People turn into these monsters through lack of love.

I don´t believe people choose to be monsters, but they have deep traumas that they cannot themselves do anything about, and society is not helping them, nor helping to prevent that new monsters are created.

I agree that drug addicts etc should not be punished but helped, and that pedophiles should be given longer sentences but at the same time treated in whatever ways can be found, Examine the early lives of serial killers and you will find out what has happened to them and will realize how much help they need. I´m in no way saying that they need more consideration than the victims. Of course not.

At the same time, I do believe/know that we come to Earth to learn, and we arrange to have certain, also horrific, experiences, in order to learn, and arrange with certain other persons, on the other plane that they come down as our torturers and murderers. I´m not saying it´s the victims´ fault what happens to them! It´s nobody´s fault. The whole thing is a kind of game where we arrange to have certain experiences by which to develop.

I believe all thse things happen so we can be helped to take a step upwards in our development. They say we now are in the 5th dimension, which is a dimension of Love, so we must now love everybody and everything, no matter what!

Carmel wrote: " You don't want these killers living next door, but some of you don't want the responsibility of deciding to pull the trigger."

I for one, would not flinch. Some things need dealt with, and it becomes a job, not an emotional action.

Iona wrote: "I believe we shoulld not kill, and thus should not kill even others who kill. That must be obvious. "

Not so much, unfortunately for me. What would you propose we do with those individuals, then?

Dennis wrote: "I voted no on this one, mainly because we still don't have a sure way to determine guilt or innocence. If even one innocent person is sent to death row, then it is one person too many.

We have not..."

I agree with you, Dennis, We need to focus on prevention and not killing the perpetrators. There will always be new perpetrators unless we change our focus.

Iona wrote: "We need to focus on prevention and not killing..."

Minority Report, anyone? Lol

Sorry, Iona. All meant in good, clean fun!

Erma wrote: "Carmel wrote: " You don't want these killers living next door, but some of you don't want the responsibility of deciding to pull the trigger."

I for one, would not flinch. Some things need dealt w..."

Erma, their psyche and early experiences should be examined so we can find out exactly how they got to be that way. And we should work on how they can be "healed". In other words, research, prevention and "healing" should be the focus.

Out of interest, for my own data collection, so to speak, Iona. Have you ever knowingly met a serial killer?
(Minority report was an enlightening film. I enjoyed it. )
Carmel

Carmel wrote: "Out of interest, for my own data collection, so to speak, Iona. Have you ever knowingly met a serial killer?
(Minority report was an enlightening film. I enjoyed it. )
Carmel"

No, I haven´t . I´m not the type that visits serial killers in jail, ha, ha! And we don´t have many of them in this country, Denmark,

Hven´t heard of the film, will look out for it.

Lucky you. Denmark is lovely. So many people everywhere disappear and are never seen of or heard from again, due to drugs, murder, suicide, serial killers...that's a lot of dodging bullets. I have sadly met a serial killer, a murderer, and a couple of professional hit men during my career and I must admit that the murderer and the hit men did not bother me so much in their presence, but the SK did, a lot. But I could be wrong - I have met, knowingly, a ridiculously small sample of one, and that in no sense truly qualifies me to judge, other than to say that in the SK, there was something empty, and gleeful. He smiled, but the smile was chilling. I saw no hope of redemption in there. This was something he enjoyed and something he sought out and he really could not understand why it was wrong. Much like pedophiles often can not see that abusing a child is anything more than loving them. That one encounter convinced me that the death penalty was sometimes a necessary thing to consider. However, the hit men had a strong moral code that they followed and the murderer was dismayed. Honour amongst thieves, even in that world. I think that the therapists who work with these people should be allowed to decide if they are redeemable, or not.
You should also watch 'Wolf Creek'. With a friend. It's a great Aussie film.

Carmel wrote: "Lucky you. Denmark is lovely. So many people everywhere disappear and are never seen of or heard from again, due to drugs, murder, suicide, serial killers...that's a lot of dodging bullets. I have ..."

Carmel, thanks for your detailed comment. Yes, Serial killers are deeply damaged and I´m sure terrifying. Perhaps some killers are "possessed" by evil entities, I don´t know.It´s true most pedophiles simply cannot see that it is damaging to children to be sexually abused. I´ll look out for Wolf Creek. What is your profession since you meet serial killers etc?

I have been wrestling with this whole concept of our right to kill and consume everything in our path and it has led me on an interesting thought train this year which in the end leaves me very troubled due to the fact that in order to survive as a human being I need to kill and consume other parts of intelligent creation. I cut down a living tree to build a house out of it's dead body, which I then proceed to live inside of. I only have my own perspective to justify that since I believe it is not a conscious being with any form of intelligence that I understand it is okay to kill the tree and consume it in various ways. When I breathe I consume the air and everything in it living and dead, and when I drink water I do the same. Whether I choose to be vegetarian or a meat lover I am still killing and consuming other life forms which because of my limited lack of understanding I judge lesser than me and therefore feel I have a right to own and kill and consume them at will. I have no choice if I want to survive. An ant crosses my kitchen floor and I haul out the boric acid to kill it even though the world is full of ants and my kitchen floor is such a small part of it. If I walk thru the grass my feet crush the growing things and some die. So how do we live. We justify the killing of what we need to in order to survive as humans because we have to, that is what we do. I would wish to never harm any being but that is not possible in this life form. So we cull out the bad seed from among us who take it too far and turn on their own species without being given a specific, legalized license to kill, and accidentally some of the innocents are lost along the way due to our haste, misjudgement, fear etc.. We try so hard to control everything and everyone making rules and laws, and to find answers to everything while trying to evolve as a species into something better but tend to deny the basics about ourselves and our connectedness to this planet and everything on it. We need to step outside the box and get the big picture. This is a great discussion with wonderful answers from everyone. I don't have a perfect definitive answer. We are saying it is okay to kill in self defense as a society if we say yes to this question and we must all take accountability for that action.

Erma wrote: "Carmel wrote: " You don't want these killers living next door, but some of you don't want the responsibility of deciding to pull the trigger."

I for one, would not flinch. Some things need dealt w..."

I wouldn't flinch either, Erma :)

In response to those saying they think we should focus on learning how to "heal" serial killers...
Um, I already know how to heal the suckers...
BLOW THEM FROM HERE TO KINGDOM COME!!!!!!

Merry Christmas :)

A.G. wrote: "Killing them is not the answer, maybe some one can find out what triggers the psychopaths and how to prevent the trigger is the real answer."

They are born that way. That is all.

The death penalty is immoral. While I believe that we have the right to protect ourselves and our family, once a killer is caught, I believe it is wrong to give that person the death penalty. To me, compassion alone dictates this.

But just to add more: A person who kills another is sick, and the person who pushes the button to kill that person is also sick, and any society that allows another person to push buttons is also a sick society. What do you think it does tot he person who is always pushing the button?

As for sociopaths and psychopaths, which I had once learned in psychology was one and the same, they happen to be born without a conscious. Can you imagine not caring for others? Not being able to love? But of course, not all sociopaths kill, but to be born without feelings, well, I wouldn't want that for myself.

I also think that the death penalty, at least in America, is related to the Biblical God, the belief that God is going to punish others in a burning hell. Many people who believe this just can't wait until non Christians are killed, and they often support the death penalty as well.

As for myself, I don't believe in a God that is judgmental, one who punishes; that is man's creation of God, born from their own need for revenge. Unconditional love that God is also said to have, never punishes, God just loves.

We do have to put someone in prison to protect others, but that is all. To bring any kind of harm to that person afterwards is cruel; it is sadistic.

Treating a sociopath with compassion doesn't help that person because that is just the way his brain is wired, but it does help us when we are compassionate, no matte what the outcome for those whom we are compassionate towards. It can't do otherwise.

Likewise, being a serial killer, raping women and children, is also fairly immoral I'd say ;)

James Morcan wrote: "In response to those saying they think we should focus on learning how to "heal" serial killers...
Um, I already know how to heal the suckers...
BLOW THEM FROM HERE TO KINGDOM COME!!!!!!

Merry Chr..."

I think you should stop doing that thing you´re doing that we talked about. It´s having a dangerous effect on you. You´re getting really scary!

Jessica wrote: "The death penalty is immoral. While I believe that we have the right to protect ourselves and our family, once a killer is caught, I believe it is wrong to give that person the death penalty. To me..."

I agree with you, Jessica, And God is not judgmental, God is Love. There is no death, and so we all survive anyway, even if we´re murdered. But if we murder people, and that includes the State, then it´s ourselves it effects. It is we who are held back in our development.

James Morcan wrote: "Likewise, being a serial killer, raping women and children, is also fairly immoral I'd say ;)"

We know that being a serial killer and raping women and children is immoral, that is not the point. But we shouldn´t stoop to the level of these people, which we do when we kill them. It harms ourselves.

How are we stooping down to their level? Our emotional state and intentions are completely different. This isnt the same as "He stole a chocolate bar, so I did too..." this is more like: "You imposed yourself into my life and harmed people whose lives did not affect or alter yours in any shape or form, Your presence was never wanted or welcomed and I'm gonna make damn sure that you're not going to destroy other people's lives" These things are not on the same level.

Iona wrote: "Jessica wrote: "The death penalty is immoral. While I believe that we have the right to protect ourselves and our family, once a killer is caught, I believe it is wrong to give that person the deat..."

God has nothing to do with this, because he doesn't exist...we need to start taking responsibility for our actions rather than blame them on the devil. If you do believe in God, then I assume you believe in the old testament. .and if you read it, you'll find out that god made people commit horrendous crimes. God didn't preach love. ..Jesus did.

James Morcan wrote: "In response to those saying they think we should focus on learning how to "heal" serial killers...
Um, I already know how to heal the suckers...
BLOW THEM FROM HERE TO KINGDOM COME!!!!!!."

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. But maybe it is a bit like hitting the reset button for them - give them a chance to try over.

Anyway, I believe it is definitely more humane than other 'behaviour modification' treatments, such as overdosing them with medication so they become drooling slobs, unable to care for themselves, or even 'treatments' like frontal lobotomies which have been 'shown' to work, but leave a broken shell behind.

There are countless 'humane' methods out there to 'deal' with those who are damaged to begin with. And most are cruel. I would not want that for my child, or anyone elses.

I am not saying we should be as the Spartans, and throw every imperfect child to the wolves, so don't get me wrong here.

This is not about religion, or laws, or shit. This is about being human and being humane (ya see how they're interlocked?). Being Humane is part of what makes us human (why those blasted ASPCA commercials make us well up).

There is no healing every kind of 'broken', and leaving them to rot in a cell, or worse have better treatment and money dumped into housing and feeding and treating and educating them when those funds could literally mean a better life for homeless children? Which is really the crueler?

I say that money could be better spent than helping the criminal become a better criminal. As the old line says, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!"

Thank you for reading this soapbox.

Lisa wrote: "How are we stooping down to their level? Our emotional state and intentions are completely different. This isnt the same as "He stole a chocolate bar, so I did too..." this is more like: "You impos..."

We must agree to differ,

Erma wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "In response to those saying they think we should focus on learning how to "heal" serial killers...
Um, I already know how to heal the suckers...
BLOW THEM FROM HERE TO KINGDOM ..."

I'm not sure i agree with you that this is about being humane. The type of individuals committing these types of crimes asked in the poll question are not humane, nor do they respond to humane treatment. Their brains are of completely different functionality, so why not punish them according to their own 'kind' rather than what would be a just punishment for a normal human being? I would not be surprised that if you asked such an individual what would be the best way to deal with them, they'd say to end their lives.

Iona wrote: "Lisa wrote: "How are we stooping down to their level? Our emotional state and intentions are completely different. This isnt the same as "He stole a chocolate bar, so I did too..." this is more lik..."

:)

Obviously this issue is loaded with bullets and wire snares, coated in arsenic, or iocane powder (;) ). The point is, this type of person is a blight whether born, or created by circumstance, and if they were created they are worse as they know, first hand, how dreadful this is and choose to emulate it. It has to be complete isolation or death. These people, when put into a community of other prisoners, convert them into sycophants and continue to offend from a distance. The thrill is real and addictive, and they do not let it go easily. Or we could lobotomise them? In answer to Ionas question, I think it was, is I am a Medical Intuitive. Medically accepted and a member of the AIMA. In short hand, doctors believe me, refer to me, use my services personally and professionally, as to psychologists and psychiatrists. Which is how and why I have come into contact with people such as the aforementioned. And, just a additional thought, it matters not if you believe in Spirit, or God, or not. That energy will keep on keeping on, just because. Merry Christmas! You are an awesome group of people. Thanks for the discussion! Carmel

Lisa wrote: "How are we stooping down to their level? Our emotional state and intentions are completely different. This isnt the same as "He stole a chocolate bar, so I did too..." this is more like: "You imposed yourself into my life and harmed people whose lives did not affect or alter yours in any shape or form, Your presence was never wanted or welcomed and I'm gonna make damn sure that you're not going to destroy other people's lives" These things are not on the same level. ..."

You
Hit
The
Nail
On
The
Head

Lisa wrote: "Iona wrote: "God has nothing to do with this, because he doesn't exist...we need to start taking responsibility for our actions rather than blame them on the devil. If you do believe in God, then I assume you believe in the old testament. .and if you read it, you'll find out that god made people commit horrendous crimes. God didn't preach love. ..Jesus did. ..."

Think you're making the assertion that God = Christianity.
Christianity does not have a copyright on the word God, nor the idea/concept of God. For starters, Christians inherited or stole (depending on your perspective) their version of God (the Abrahamic God) from Judaism. And the Jews certainly were far from the first people on Earth to theorize about God...

Sash wrote: "Andreas, you're totally scientific, there's no wrong or right, no good or evil, and you're not better than others?
But, God would have liked you more than those killers? Hmmm...

"I'm not the one h..."

I am going over this posts. if anyone says that you believe you are better than others for your beliefs, then what is happening is that your beliefs hit a nerve with them, so they attact you. just my own thought.

Sash wrote: "Andreas, you're totally scientific, there's no wrong or right, no good or evil, and you're not better than others?
But, God would have liked you more than those killers? Hmmm...

"I'm not the one h..."

Erma wrote: "There is no healing every kind of 'broken', and leaving them to rot in a cell, or worse have better treatment and money dumped into housing and feeding and treating and educating them when those funds could literally mean a better life for homeless children? Which is really the crueler?

I say that money could be better spent than helping the criminal become a better criminal. As the old line says, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!"

Thank you for reading this soapbox. ..."

Good soapbox - agree 1000% with everything you say/imply here.

We really have all been brainwashed by New Agey claptrap or have guilt complexes from amateur psychology if we think we are being immoral or sinful or wicked by putting down serial killers. It's almost the equivalent of saying if you defend yourself against those who invade your country and threaten to annihilate the population you are murderers - yes it'd be killing and murder (technically speaking), but it'd also be the right thing to do. In many ways psychopaths are threatening to destroy our nations and the planet at large just like those armies who invade vulnerable countries.

Now, will you all join with me and universally say LET'S BLOW THESE SUCKERS FROM HERE TO KINGDOM COME???!!!!! :)))))))

Carmel wrote: "These people, when put into a community of other prisoners, convert them into sycophants and continue to offend from a distance...."

This is the key point that I think is being missed by many in this poll. I have read about countless criminals who got ideas while mixing with serial killers in life sentences, or even corresponding with them by letter or reading their quotes in media interviews. By not putting them down, we do allow them to vicariously continue their evils thru others. Some say psychopathy can spread...

Again, at what point do we say enough is enough?

Harry wrote: "It's not about the cost.
It's not about whatever the heinous crime in question is (which incidentally, is open to human definition).
It's about: If we kill someone for doing wrong, we do wrong ours..."

so true, we are reducing a human life to what it cost to keep that person alive. and furthermore, the cost doesn't have to be high if we reform the system, if we put the prisoner to work for his living.

Okay. If someone comes knocking on the door of my family to harm, molest, mutilate, or murder, I am there. If someone takes one of my children to harm them, I. Am.There. If a country invades my country, I am there. I know this about me, I accept it and am happy with it, and yet, still, I am considered to be a gentle, compassionate person. And I am. Unless you harm someone who is under my protection. This is how it should be.
How many parents have allowed their children to be molested or murdered because they wanted the relationship with the perpetrator. How many dead children do we need. Need? Daniel Valerio, anyone? How old would he be now, if he had not been beaten and tortured to death? And all under the careful eye of Human Services. It is up to people who give a damn to say, "Enough!"

Beth wrote: "You need to study the psychology of a pedophile...there is no fix."

Iona wrote: "It should be obvius that if we kill people no matter what heinous crimes they´ve committed, then we are no better than they are. Also, some people are innocent, and this is not discovered until lat..."

love what you wrote. those who commit heinous crimes often cannot be

While there is no fix for the psychopath, that doesn't mean that person should then be murdered. What that does then is bring you to his/her level. a psychopath was born that way. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...

Carmel wrote: " I am a Medical Intuitive. Medically accepted and a member of the AIMA. In short hand, doctors believe me, refer to me, use my services personally and professionally, as to psychologists and psychiatrists. Which is how and why I have come into contact with people such as the aforementioned. ..."

So shrinks sent you serial killers or other types of psychopaths to be healed by you, Carmel?
Talk about mission impossible!!
And did you think about getting security?

James Morcan wrote: "Carmel wrote: " I am a Medical Intuitive. Medically accepted and a member of the AIMA. In short hand, doctors believe me, refer to me, use my services personally and professionally, as to psycholog..."

Surely a person that intuitive would know whether she was in danger or not and make sure she wouldn't put herself in that position. ..

Carmel wrote: "Look at Trump as purposeful and revealing. No one can be swayed to any thing, IF their faith is strong. People have endured torture of every variety and clung to their belief, and yet others have f..."

Trump is your typical narcissistic/sociopath path, and people can be swayed. As Hitler said, if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough, people will believe. If he gets into office, you will really see changes. Remember that he began with few votes, but the more he spoke, the more votes he got. if you have read Hitler like he did, you would see that he speaks the same.

James Morcan wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Iona wrote: "God has nothing to do with this, because he doesn't exist...we need to start taking responsibility for our actions rather than blame them on the devil. If you do believe i..."

No assertion, James...just wasn't planning on mentioning the various definitions of god as i think regardless of what type of god you believe in, it is no excuse for psycho-/sociopathic actions.

Jessica wrote: "While there is no fix for the psychopath, that doesn't mean that person should then be murdered. What that does then is bring you to his/her level. a psychopath was born that way...."

My understanding from reading psychiatrists' observations is that psychopaths can indeed be born that way and often are.
However, they also can be created thru dysfunctionality and abuse over time, or even thru extreme drug addiction gone wrong or even some kind of physical accident where the neurological circuitry is damaged.

For example, I once heard this story of a middle-aged man and law-abiding citizen who was a great family man. Then one day, he suddenly snapped and killed his children. His wife commented she didn't know what the hell happened as he'd never raised a fist before or even raised his voice. The man ended up in a mental asylum as he kept acting aggressive and also psychotic. 3 years later a dentist arrived at the asylum for routine check-ups of patients. The dentist discovered a nerve that went from the mans jaw to brain was infected. And when the infection was removed, the man immediately became 100% mentally sound and non-aggressive. Doctors' reports said the killings were caused by temporary insanity.

So I'd argue not all psychopaths are born that way....although admittedly I haven't read that much about the subject

Lisa wrote: "No assertion, James...just wasn't planning on mentioning the various definitions of god as i think regardless of what type of god you believe in, it is no excuse for psycho-/sociopathic actions. ..."

Okay, agreed then.

Yes, James, I did. A lot. In the end, I came to the conclusion that there was reception staff in the clinics I work in and if they found me at home, well, I have a big, protective dog amongst other things. This is one of the scariest parts of my job. And yes, Shrinks send them to me, or doctors, or other alt. healers.
Don't I have the choicest job? ;)

Carmel wrote: "Yes, James, I did. A lot. In the end, I came to the conclusion that there was reception staff in the clinics I work in and if they found me at home, well, I have a big, protective dog amongst other things. This is one of the scariest parts of my job. And yes, Shrinks send them to me, or doctors, or other alt. healers.
Don't I have the choicest job? ;)
..."

I cannot even be in the presence of such people...they make me shiver and shudder. Have met one guy at a party who was convicted of murder as a teen and they said was reformed. I looked in to his eyes and thought "scareeeee". One year later I heard he murdered again...
You're a brave soul, Carmel, but maybe don't discourage your dog from breeding as a group of dogs in your yard couldn't hurt.
Speaking of dogs, it's interesting how they would defend their owners to the death and willingly give up their own lives to save their human companions...Kinda the opposite of psychopaths!!!!

That would've been frightening, James. My dog would die for me. He even announces my arrival home a good ten minutes before I get there, if I go out without him. He sits by the front gate and starts howling. And he is about 45 or more kgs. A big boy. If someone looks at me in a way he disapproves of, the change is instant and very frightening, even if it is one of my family. Body drops, eyes narrow and he growls. Yes, he comes to work with me. You'll have to meet him!

James Morcan wrote: "Speaking of dogs, it's interesting how they would defend their owners to the death and willingly give up their own lives to save their human companions...Kinda the opposite of psychopaths!!!!"

"What greater love hath a man, than he would lay down his life for a friend?"

There is a reason dogs are deemed "Man's Best Friend".

Merry Christmas! Be sure to give your doggie a hug from me, Carmel!

James Morcan wrote: "Erma wrote: "There is no healing every kind of 'broken', and leaving them to rot in a cell, or worse have better treatment and money dumped into housing and feeding and treating and educating them ..."

We have been brainwashed by New Age claptrap?

New Age teachings are actually Old Age teachings; they have been around for a very long time. They often combine Hinduism with Buddhism.

Many Catholics are against the death penalty, and for good reasons.

Most Buddhist groups are against the death penalty.

Many other Christian groups and Jewish groups are against it.

Being against the death penalty does not mean that you are against defending yourself and your country.

Do you believe ALL of these people have been brainwashed by New Agers? But I will say something in defense of the New Agers, if this is what they believe, then they are really onto something, something called "compassion."

I have at one time in my life believed in the death penalty, and my reasons for not believing in it now are not due to any new age views. My beliefs are Native American, but I also don't speak for all Native Americans. I speak from my own conscious.

I also know that hating others causes one harm; it causes harm to a person who even pushes the button. The solders are harmed when they come back from war; those wounds often do not heal. But at times it is necessary to go to war, to even defend your family; still it affects the mind when you do so. A person who says that he/she would gladly push the button may be just talking; if they had to do it and had to watch the person die, they will have to live with that forever. It is bad enough that people have to live with the death of those they love who have been killed by anyone, war or otherwise.

People really need to examine their views and values.

Here are some people who were not in the New Age and their views:

Albert Einstein:

"I have reached the conviction that the abolition of the death penalty is desirable. Reasons: 1) Irreparability in the event of an error of justice, 2) Detrimental moral influence of the execution procedure on those who, whether directly or indirectly, have to do with the procedure."

Pope John Paul II:


“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I …appeal…for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.”

Elie Wiesel who had been in a Jewish concentration camp:


“With every cell of my being and with every fiber of my memory I oppose the death penalty in all forms. I do not believe any civilized society should be at the service of death. I don’t think it’s human to become an agent of the angel of death.”

Martin Luther King, Jr:

“I do not think that God approves the death penalty for any crime, rape and murder included. Capital punishment is against the better judgment of modern criminology, and, above all, against the highest expression of love in the nature of God.”

On the contrary, I am a believer in many New Age ideas....But I also think there's also a flakey BS side to the New Age movement that I'm sure we can all agree on. And I think some of that relates to things going too far in one direction.

And yeah, I'm also aware that many of the New Age beliefs are old age/ancient, however I think much of this new incarnation of these ideas is being packaged without the initial framework of the older faiths or belief systems and so there's a big element of confusion in it all.

Carmel wrote: "Obviously this issue is loaded with bullets and wire snares, coated in arsenic, or iocane powder (;) ). The point is, this type of person is a blight whether born, or created by circumstance, and i..."

Thanks, Carmel, for your information. Good that you are accepted by the authorities and can use your gift. Happy Christmas!