The Doubters' Club: Good-Faith Conversations with Skeptics, Atheists, and the Spiritually Wounded

by Preston Ulmer

It would make sense that the closer a believer gets to a ten on the Engel Scale, the more they would find themselves interacting with those on the negative side of the scale. If an “E10” means living fully as Christ lived, it’s safe to assume that the closer we move toward a ten, the more sacrificial we become. Then the question arises: Who are we sacrificing for as we become more like Christ?

Discipleship looks different on the positive side of the scale than it does on the negative side. On the positive side of the Engel Scale, it’s to move closer to God’s heart and to allow him to soften our heart toward those who are far from him. On the negative side, it’s to address negative impressions of Jesus, guide the nonbeliever toward an intention related to Jesus, and create spiritual pathways that allow the nonbeliever to take next steps within the context of trusting relationships. Discipleship on the negative side of the Engel Scale is the focus of this book.

Specifically, how the believer can create pathways for the nonbeliever so they can both journey toward Christ together. The believer toward a ten, and the nonbeliever toward a zero (remember, zero is the point of conversion). Throughout the book, I will refer to this pathway as “the Five Is.” The Five Is are: Impression—how to rebuild the impression another person has of you; Intention—how to renovate the intentions you have of a nonbeliever; Invitation—how to invite a nonbeliever into real life, not a church service; Initiation—how to re-examine our views through conversations that matter; and Imitation—how to redefine progress.

Wimber coined the phrase “The meat is in the street.”

Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. HEBREWS 5:12-14

It’s one of the most jarring statements for those who are addicted to the high of being right: Deeper doctrine is spiritual milk. Scripture memorization is, at best, 1% milk. Apologetics is like whole milk, but is milk, nonetheless.

The best part of Kung Fu Panda is when Oogway, a tortoise karate master, tells Shifu, “One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.” Practicing love with the atheist and agnostic will help us find Christ.

In his book God in Search of Man, Polish-born American rabbi Abraham Heschel rightly stated, “When religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion—its message becomes meaningless.”

Sometimes the nicest people you meet are covered in tattoos, and sometimes the most judgmental people you meet go to church on Sundays. EARL DIBBLES JR. Shade never made anybody less gay. TAYLOR SWIFT

As you know by now, the Doubters’ Club is a group of people who refuse to walk out on one another.

first I of preconversion discipleship. We must all have a personal vendetta against our un-Christlike first impressions.

The common consensus from Matthew and others is that since we are so full of knowledge, it leaves no room for listening and growth. The knowledge we have been consuming feels more or less like poison to the outsider.

put the above statements in a DIET acronym to help us remember the diet that is ruining our impressions: Do you know where you are going? I disagree with you. Enter the voting booth. Thanks for asking.

Pressure works in one of two ways:

I don’t think it is wrong to apply spiritual pressure. I just think it needs to pull them out, not push them in.

What if we reframed the question: “How does the Good News of Jesus free this person from the pressures they feel in a particular area of life?”

I disagree with you. It’s an unfortunate confession: Christians are known more for what we are against than what we are for.

Here are four questions to ask yourself before entering an intentional disagreement: If I am wrong on this issue, would I be willing to admit it?

Is this a head or a heart issue to the person I’m talking to? If

If you choose to believe the Gospels, you must choose to believe the accounts of those hurt by the church. Firsthand experiences are the name of the game.

What is the desired outcome of this conversation? If the purpose of the disagreement is to prove the other person wrong, don’t enter the conversation.

Will I be committed to the cleanup if this disagreement causes a mess? Anyone can light a fuse. Not everyone has the commitment to rebuild when the bomb goes off.

When things we abstain from doing become the greatest identifier of who we are, it is difficult for people to see the One who is for them.

Enter the voting booth. There can never be a distinctly Christian political position. Political positions are based on superiority, and disciples of Jesus are called to pursue humility.

Something feels toxic when our moral convictions can be boiled down to red or blue. If you are going to be red, let it be because you have bled for your enemies. And if you are going to be blue, let it be because you have sat in sorrow with people who are experiencing pain. The Kingdom of God is holy. Meaning, it is set apart. It is other.

Thanks for asking. Everyone knows someone who knows everything. At least, they think they know everything.

In the introduction to his book Jesus Is the Question, Martin Copenhaver cites two published studies that point out Jesus’ answer-to-question ratio is 1:100.[7] For every answer Jesus gives, the Gospels record that he asks a hundred questions.

Meaning: If we, the church, are not willing to bleed for the one we disagree with, we should not expect to win them over.

Here are some steps we can take, together, to rebuild the impression people have of us: Apologize where you missed it.

Appreciate the journey they are on.

Anticipate that it’s a long road ahead.

Actually, most of the evil in this world is done by and through “good” intentions. The cause of evil is stupidity, not malice. AYN RAND Elphie, now that we’re friends, I’ve decided to make you my new project. GLINDA, Wicked the Musical

Jesus, on the other hand—he did it well. He wasn’t just the life of the party; he brought the party to life.

Is every event really a Trojan horse to turn them into one of us? Are we unable to have genuine relationships with nonbelievers? What would happen if we faced up to what drives us? Does anyone in the church know this is a problem?

“Do unto others as they would have you do unto them,” she replied. “How I want someone to treat me is not always how they want to be treated. If I learn to listen to them first, I can treat them how they want to be treated.

For example, Christians evangelize because if they were lost and going to hell, they would want someone to tell them about Jesus. Therefore, they feel that, according to the Golden Rule, they should be telling others about Jesus.”

Apparently, the mystic poet Thomas Merton was right when he described himself as “a member of a human race which is no more (and no less) ridiculous than I am myself.”[5]

If you are to become more genuine, avoid generalizations about your life and share specifics. Instead of “we all struggle,” how about you share about yesterday and the day before that?

Another step toward the right side of the scale is to share stories where the other person is the hero.

Finally, genuine people are sought after because they are trustworthy. They are rarely spreading gossip disguised as emails to the leader of the church’s prayer chain.

I like listening to people who know what they are talking about. It becomes impressive, though, when they know who they are talking to.

Rather, I agree with Bible commentator Adolf Jülicher that parables have a single point, and the rest is narrative scenery.

But people are gardens, not factories.

If people are gardens, knowledge should be treated like the seeds that will, eventually, grow. We need to make sure that the seeds we are planting will produce something of the Kingdom when fully grown. And you can’t rush it. Some questions need to be revisited for years before the answer takes. Some answers need to be revisited for years for a good question to take.

“The intention of the Doubters’ Club is not to ‘win’ the debate,” I told him. “The intention is to build a platform of friendship for us to pursue truth together.” I shared with him that we do not intend to ever pray the prayer of salvation at a Doubters’ Club meeting. Our intention is to build friendships with people who don’t think like us. The common ground we all have is our doubts.

The purer the intentions, the more influence we gain. Every. Single. Time.

INVITATIONHow to Invite the Nonbeliever into Real Life, Not a Church Service You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you. DALE CARNEGIE, How to Win Friends and Influence People I have an enormous amount of trouble getting people to come to my place. . . . I can’t tell you how much leftover guacamole I’ve eaten.

Jesus is the “yes” face of God, always inviting us into his life and requesting that we invite him into ours. Eugene Peterson captured the essence of this when he translated John 16:33 in The Message: [Jesus said,] “I’ve told you all this so that trusting me, you will be unshakable and assured, deeply at peace. In this godless world you will continue to experience difficulties. But take heart! I’ve conquered the world.”

For people who don’t yet have Jesus, they have us.