“The real issue for the evangelical church today,” he said, “is what counts as success in ministry? If you go back several decades, you will see that people didn’t think about ministers in the same way. They didn’t really think in terms of success. The whole idea of being a success was more in terms of being faithful to a calling. For example, you could be a minister who wasn’t a very good speaker and be regarded as someone who was faithful to their calling, someone of character. So the problem is how you think about success, and today it is very difficult to think about success except in
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