there were people who used to say psychedelic experience is a kind of cheat and real mystical experience is something quite different. I don’t believe that; I think that they’re very closely related. And people can access different states through meditation. There’s all sorts of altered states of consciousness: you can arrive at them through meditation; you can arrive at them through experiences in nature such as mystical connection with nature; you can arrive at them through drugs; you can arrive at them through near-death experiences. And there are many ways to alter our consciousness and
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