DMT Dialogues: Encounters with the Spirit Molecule

by David Luke

ROBIN CARHART-HARRIS: I’ve been listening with an open mind since I’ve been here and more and more building up a feeling that I should say something in defense of what’s sometimes referred to as a materialist approach. It’s an unfortunate term, sort of sounds like materialist as in the acquisition of material goods. In terms of hearing you talking about the dry language that you will find in scientific literature, I want to frame that slightly differently. I want to say that what we aim to do as scientists is to be dispassionate, to really give ourselves the best chance to glean what is true. I also want to argue against the idea that scientists are only after getting the next publication or the next grant. I’m here with an open mind; I’m interested in these entity experiences that can be induced by DMT. I want to say my motivation is one of pragmatism as a scientist. I want to hear the phenomenology, I want to be systematic, I want to be pragmatic in my approach, and I want to test these ideas. I want to put them to the test and use that model as a way to glean truth. What worries me slightly about a desire for enchantment is that there’s something wishful as well as basking or luxuriating, I suppose, in mystery and enchantment, which is fine. As I say, I come here with an open mind wanting to understand the phenomena but with a motivation to try to study it. I think if you just leave it in this enchanting space, then you might be motivated not to even study it. So I just...