The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus
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the biographies of Jesus, which are called the four gospels.
Stephen Self
Historical bias
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this is how people wrote biographies in the ancient world. They did not have the sense, as we do today, that it was important to give equal proportion to all periods of an individual’s life or that it was necessary to tell the story in strictly chronological order or even to quote people verbatim, as long as the essence of what they said was preserved. Ancient Greek and Hebrew didn’t even have a symbol for quotation marks.
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it was a common literary genre to collect the sayings of respected teachers, sort of as we compile the top music of a singer and put it into a ‘best of’ album.
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assured him I was only after the essentials of the issue, not an exhaustive discussion,
Stephen Self
This characterizes the whole enterprise so far: facile, too quick, and shallow
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Actually, the Greek literally says, ‘Fear not, I am.’ Those last two words are identical to what Jesus said in John 8:58, when he took upon himself the divine name ‘I AM,’
Stephen Self
It's also how you say "it's me," which in context is what Jesus is saying
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“Son of Man” is often thought to indicate the humanity of Jesus, just as the reflex expression “Son of God” indicates his divinity. In fact, just the opposite is true. The Son of Man was a divine figure in the Old Testament book of Daniel
Stephen Self
Why it can't the expression do both simultaneously? Fully human, fully divine
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“In the ancient world the idea of writing dispassionate, objective history merely to chronicle events, with no ideological purpose, was unheard of. Nobody wrote history if there wasn’t a reason to learn from it.”
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“Some people, usually for anti-Semitic purposes, deny or downplay the horrors of the Holocaust. But it has been the Jewish scholars who’ve created museums, written books, preserved artifacts, and documented eyewitness testimony concerning the Holocaust. “Now, they have a very ideological purpose—namely, to ensure that such an atrocity never occurs again—but they have also been the most faithful and objective in their reporting of historical truth.
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and Colossians
Stephen Self
Not generally accpted as authentically Pauline
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“If the Crucifixion was as early as A.D. 30, Paul’s conversion was about 32. Immediately Paul was ushered into Damascus, where he met with a Christian named Ananias and some other disciples. His first meeting with the apostles in Jerusalem would have been about A.D. 35. At some point along there, Paul was given this creed, which had already been formulated and was being used in the early church.
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After Jesus’ ascension there were a number of controversies that threatened the early church—should believers be circumcised, how should speaking in tongues be regulated, how to keep Jew and Gentile united, what are the appropriate roles for women in ministry, whether believers could divorce non-Christian spouses. “These issues could have been conveniently resolved if the early Christians had simply read back into the gospels what Jesus had told them from the world beyond. But this never happened. The continuance of these controversies demonstrates that Christians were interested in ...more
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“One study suggested that in the ancient Middle East, anywhere from ten to forty percent of any given retelling of sacred tradition could vary from one occasion to the next. However, there were always fixed points that were unalterable, and the community had the right to intervene and correct the storyteller if he erred on those important aspects of the story. “It’s an interesting”—he paused, searching his mind for the right word—“coincidence that ten to forty percent is pretty consistently the
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“I’m saying that it’s likely that a lot of the similarities and differences among the synoptics can be explained by assuming that the disciples and other early Christians had committed to memory a lot of what Jesus said and did, but they felt free to recount this information in various forms, always preserving the significance of Jesus’ original teachings and deeds.”
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They were willing to live out their beliefs even to the point of ten of the eleven remaining disciples being put to grisly deaths, which shows great character.
Stephen Self
Same argument used by Mormons about Joseph Smith’s truthfulness as regards the BoM, D&C, etc., for which he did die (was martyred).
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“If the gospels were too consistent, that in itself would invalidate them as independent witnesses.
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“Besides, these disciples had nothing to gain except criticism, ostracism, and martyrdom. They certainly had nothing to win financially. If anything, this would have provided pressure to keep quiet, to deny Jesus, to downplay him, even to forget they ever met him—yet because of their integrity, they proclaimed what they saw, even when it meant suffering and death.”
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“Could this Christian movement have taken root right there in Jerusalem—in the very area where Jesus had done much of his ministry, had been crucified, buried, and resurrected—if people who knew him were aware that the disciples were exaggerating or distorting the things that he did?”
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The Bible considers it praiseworthy to have a faith that does not require evidence. Remember how Jesus replied to doubting Thomas: ‘You believe because you see; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.’ And I know evidence can never compel or coerce faith. We cannot supplant the role of the Holy Spirit,
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“In addition to Greek manuscripts, we also have translations of the gospels into other languages at a relatively early time—into Latin, Syriac, and Coptic. And beyond that, we have what may be called secondary translations made a little later, like Armenian and Gothic. And a lot of others—Georgian, Ethiopic, a great variety.” “How does that help?” “Because even if we had no Greek manuscripts today, by piecing together the information from these translations from a relatively early date, we could actually reproduce the contents of the New Testament.
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For example, sometimes the scribe’s memory would play tricks on him. Between the time it took for him to look at the text and then to write down the words, the order of words might get shifted. He may write down the right words but in the wrong sequence. This is nothing to be alarmed at, because Greek, unlike English, is an inflected language.”
Stephen Self
Compare arguments from Lollard period about unsuitability of English for scripture because it is not inflected
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“You have to understand that the canon was not the result of a series of contests involving church politics.
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Josephus was interested in political matters and the struggle against Rome, so for him John the Baptist was more important because he seemed to pose a greater political threat than did Jesus.”
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Jesus didn’t even object to paying taxes to the Romans. Therefore because Jesus and his followers didn’t pose an immediate political threat, it’s certainly understandable that Josephus isn’t more interested in this sect
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James, for instance, has recollections of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount.”
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This is where 4Q521 comes in. This nonbiblical manuscript from the Dead Sea collection, written in Hebrew, dates back to thirty years before Jesus was born. It contains a version of Isaiah 61 that does include this missing phrase, “the dead are raised.” “[Scroll scholar Craig] Evans has pointed out that this phrase in 4Q521 is unquestionably embedded in a messianic context,” McRay said. “It refers to the wonders that the Messiah will do when he comes and when heaven and earth will obey him. So when Jesus gave his response to John, he was not being ambiguous at all. John would have instantly ...more
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The Nicene Creed doesn’t say, ‘We wish these things were true.’ It says, ‘Jesus Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and the third day he rose again from the dead,’ and it goes on from there.
Stephen Self
Actually it says WE BELIEVE that content is true
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“The theological truth is based on historical truth.
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“I don’t want to base my life on a symbol,” he said resolutely. “I want reality,
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So the decision goes beyond the evidence, yet it is there also on the basis of the evidence. “So it is with falling in love with Jesus. To have a relationship with Jesus Christ goes beyond just knowing the historical facts about him, yet it’s rooted in the historical facts about him.
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“If he had simply announced, ‘Hi, folks; I’m God,’ that would have been heard as ‘I’m Yahweh,’ because the Jews of his day didn’t have any concept of the Trinity. They only knew of God the Father—whom they called Yahweh—and not God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.
Stephen Self
I disagree. See Heiser on the "Jewish Trinity."
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“Look at his relationship with his disciples. Jesus has twelve disciples, yet notice that he’s not one of the Twelve.” While that may sound like a detail without a difference, Witherington said it’s quite significant. “If the Twelve represent a renewed Israel, where does Jesus fit in?”
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“Jesus taught in a radical new way. He begins his teachings with the phrase ‘Amen I say to you,’ which is to say, ‘I swear in advance to the truthfulness of what I’m about to say.’ This was absolutely revolutionary.” “How so?” I asked. He replied, “In Judaism you needed the testimony of two witnesses, so witness A could witness the truth of witness B and vice versa. But Jesus witnesses to the truth of his own sayings. Instead of basing his teaching on the authority of others, he speaks on his own authority.
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“the significance of ‘Abba’ is that Jesus is the initiator of an intimate relationship that was previously unavailable.
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“He saw his job as coming to free the people of God, so his mission was directed to Israel.”
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“There’s very little evidence that he sought out Gentiles during his ministry—that was a mission for the later church.
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if you do something against me, I have the right to forgive you. However, if you do something against me and somebody else comes along and says, ‘I forgive you,’ what kind of cheek is that? The only person who can say that sort of thing meaningfully is God himself, because sin, even if it is against other people, is first and foremost a defiance of God and his laws.
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‘A text without a context becomes a pretext for a prooftext.’
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“One of the things that the Bible does insist is that in the end not only will justice be done, but justice will be seen to be done, so that every mouth will be stopped.”
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Justice is not always done in this world; we see that every day. But on the Last Day it will be done for all to see.
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“The overthrowing of slavery, then, is through the transformation of men and women by the gospel rather than through merely changing an economic system.
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you merely overthrow an economic system and impose a new order.
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Legislation didn’t change him. Reasoning didn’t change him. Emotional appeals didn’t change him. He’ll tell you that God changed him from the inside out—decisively, completely, permanently.
Stephen Self
Why can't evangelicals let the same be true of abortion?
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Also, the Old Testament paints a portrait of God by using such titles and descriptions as Alpha and Omega, Lord, Savior, King, Judge, Light, Rock, Redeemer, Shepherd, Creator, giver of life, forgiver of sin, and speaker with divine authority. It’s fascinating to note that in the New Testament each and every one is applied to Jesus.
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“Fine,” said the pastor. “Just read the Old Testament and ask the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—the God of Israel—to show you if Jesus is the Messiah.
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“And one more thing: sincerely ask God to show you whether or not Jesus is the Messiah. That’s what I did—and without any coaching it became clear to me who fit the fingerprint of the Messiah.”
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A third-century historian by the name of Eusebius described a flogging by saying, ‘The sufferer’s veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure.’
Stephen Self
Note the late source. E of Caesarea? This is likely like the supposed blood eagle of the Vikings. Christian torture porn.
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Think of that: they needed to create a new word, because there was nothing in the language that could describe the intense anguish caused during the crucifixion.
Stephen Self
Nope! Check e.g. Caesar Gallic War 7.20.9: fame vinculisque excruciaverat. Also ibidem 6.19.3
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the burial is mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:3–7, where he passes on a very early creed of the church.”
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Craig agreed with Blomberg that the creed undoubtedly goes back to within a few years of Jesus’ crucifixion, having been given to Paul, after his conversion, in Damascus or in his subsequent visit to Jerusalem when he met with the apostles James and Peter.
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Second, his gospel basically consists of short anecdotes about Jesus, more like pearls on a string than a smooth, continuous narrative. “But when you get to the last week of Jesus’ life—the so-called passion story—then you do have a continuous narrative of events in sequence. This passion story was apparently taken by Mark from an even earlier source
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