“The whole idea of a Messiah coming was that he was going to arrive and there wouldn’t be a living Roman anywhere. It was going to be a bloodbath. All the Romans were gonna be dead,” Torres replied. “And yet Jesus had a very different program. His kingdom is so different from what we envision as a kingdom. We think in terms of beating the other side, of winning the argument. The problem is, if you win the argument, you’ve won nothing.”