The Nature of the Gods in Classics and the Western Canon

Jan 15, 2011 Cassandra Kay Silva rated it it was amazing

Shelves: books-of-antiquity, religion, all-time-favorites, philosophy

I devoured this book. Behe you fool! You can come up with no greater argument than Cicero's own watchmaker hypothesis? Idiot. The same so called "Reasons" for the gods are still the best we can do with all of our technological advances since Rome? Bastards. In praise of Cicero who for his time was highly critical in his critique of not only the existence of gods but what their inherent nature must be. Good for you Cicero and shame to all those who have done no better since him, prattling the sam I devoured this book. Behe you fool! You can come up with no greater argument than Cicero's own watchmaker hypothesis? Idiot. The same so called "Reasons" for the gods are still the best we can do with all of our technological advances since Rome? Bastards. In praise of Cicero who for his time was highly critical in his critique of not only the existence of gods but what their inherent nature must be. Good for you Cicero and shame to all those who have done no better since him, prattling the same so called "proofs" when so much has been gained as of late.

The reasons this work must be read:
1. To gain an appreciation for the vastness of ideas surrounding the so called "gods" of his time, including those not taking human form such as worship of the sun, the universe, and various elements and virtues.
2. The identification with another human living at such a vital time in Roman history who as is very apparent not only possesses the rational arguments best equipped to him in his own human form but brilliantly presented as extended dialogue between characters.
3. To enjoy the views of the Epicureans and the Stoics of the day huzzah!
4. To gain an appreciation for what Rome had gained in knowledge from the Greeks as early as this! They knew that the stars were the same as the sun. That the sun was bigger only because of relative view! They knew that the earth was a sphere~! They knew that there were other universes similar to our own that were uncountable. What treasures we lost since then and what pains had to be taken to recover this information. The dark ages truly were dark indeed!

To be fair I will warn you Cicero does not fully develop all of his ideas, in fact he does not finish the book and many parts of it are rumored to be missing. The main flaw is that despite his rigorous challenges to a general belief in god he falls back on what seem to be long old assertions because perhaps of social pressure as many atheists were killed at this time and also perhaps because this is the best he can do. What a sad and unappealing ending to so many good thoughts and so much willing banter. Ah Cicero would you have been born in our times the greatness of your mind could more fully have been used to continue your eloquence on these matters! Tragedy! For Tragedy!

If you want to read a book to be convinced on the nature of god yourself, the existence of or the disproving of (despite the authors intent) this may not be the read for you as the book is for obvious reasons outdated in many of its references. But if you want to hear ancient philosophy in tow and marvel at the mind of man and his cognitive abilities to think through circumstance when heavily steeped and pressured by society to avoid such by all means enjoy as did I this short work. ...more

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Aug 06, 2010 Ibis3 marked it as to-read

Bilingual edition preferred.

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Aug 08, 2009 Foppe marked it as home-library · review of another edition

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Jan 22, 2010 Inna marked it as to-read · review of another edition

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Sep 24, 2010 Nemo rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: greco-roman

"That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun."

More than two thousand years ago, Cicero presented a detailed account of the theologies of ancient Greek philosophers, in the form of a brilliant, pungent and witty debate among the representatives of the Stoic, Epicurean and Academic schools. The discourse is centered around four questions: Do gods exist? What is the nature of the gods? Do they govern the universe? Do they take t "That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun."

More than two thousand years ago, Cicero presented a detailed account of the theologies of ancient Greek philosophers, in the form of a brilliant, pungent and witty debate among the representatives of the Stoic, Epicurean and Academic schools. The discourse is centered around four questions: Do gods exist? What is the nature of the gods? Do they govern the universe? Do they take thought for humans?

Today the same arguments are still being rehashed in the debates between the creationist and evolutionists, atheists and Christians, proponents of determinism and free will. Yet few can match the eloquence, erudition and wit of Cicero.

Is Reason a Divine Gift?

The Stoic Balbus stated that the gods had bestowed on humans many gifts, including reason. Cicero, in the person of Cotta, argued almost with passion rarely shown in the course of the intellectual debate, that few men made good use of reason whereas most used it for evil, it would be better if reason had not been granted. He quoted many instances in the Greek tragedies where men used reason for deceit, treachery and murder. It's especially poignant, even prophetic, as Cicero himself, an outstanding man of reason, was murdered by the sword.

Quotes:

"You take refuge in a thicket of philosophical jargons ... It is not that you are hiding things from me, as Pythagoras used to do from outsiders; nor do you purposely make things obscure as Heraclitus did. Let us be frank with each other; you do not understand the doctrine either!"

"So I do beg you all kindly to refrain from wasting that wit of yours in jeering at us -- after all, it is in short supply in your tribe!"

"How splendid too and divine is the power of utterance ... In the first place, it provides the means of learning things which we do not know, and of teaching others the things which we do know; and second, we employ it to cajole and to persuade, to console the afflicted and to dispel the fears of the apprehensive. We deploy it to rein in the impetuous, to snuff out immoderate desires and flashes of anger. It is this which has united us in the fellowship of justice and laws and citizenship, and has weaned us from the barbaric life of savagery."
...more

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