Scott’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2012)

Scott’s comments from the Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" group.

Send me your email addy and I'll send you a copy . . .

I need to read that sample. I'll bookmark it and check it out tonight . . .

I read the sample. Not bad . . .

Greg wrote: "Scott wrote: "The figure moved nearer to the circle of light cast by the monks’ fire. The thunder had faded; the rain was a soft hiss. Weak flares of lightning revealed little more than a twisted s..."

Thanks, man! With any luck, it'll be out by this time next year :)

Ashe wrote: "I'm kinda takin everything. The history is on the Tolkienish side, mixed in with a lot of Elder Scrolls, but ultimately, I just wanted to grow them as a people. And given my setting is a western, t..."

I read a snippet at your blog, Ashe. I thought it well-done, and making it a Western was a particularly brilliant touch. I'm interested in how you grow them as a people; probably the most unique take on Orcs in the fiction I've read is Morgan Howell's -- he borrows heavily from Native American culture, makes the Orcs a matriarchy, and even has a decent lexicon of their language. In appearance, though, they remind me of great apes rather than Orcs. I admire what Stan Nicholls' did with his original trilogy of books (gathered under the Orcs Omnibus cover), though except for the opening chapter of the first book, his Orcs always struck me as very human -- indeed, it might have been part of his plan to make his Orcs more human than his Humans.

My own, from A GATHERING OF RAVENS, follow the Tolkien outline very closely -- by design, since I'm "reverse engineering" them into Norse myth. They operate on their own, without needing to be under the sway of some evil power, but otherwise much of their lore echoes and mirrors JRRT's. Here's a snippet from Chapter One, where my protagonist, Grimnir, reveals himself to two monks he is forced to share a cave with, during a fierce autumn storm in Denmark, circa 1000 AD:

The figure moved nearer to the circle of light cast by the monks’ fire. The thunder had faded; the rain was a soft hiss. Weak flares of lightning revealed little more than a twisted silhouette, gnarled limbs bulging with muscle and sinew. “I am called many things, Christ-Dane," the figure said. "Corpse-maker and Life-quencher, the Bringer of Night, the Son of the Wolf and Brother of the Serpent. I am the eldest of Bálegyr’s brood, called Grimnir by my people.”

But what stepped from the shadows was no man. It was not even human – not as Njal or Aidan or any other sane mind would reckon it. The flickering firelight threw Grimnir’s features in sharp relief. The planes and angles of its face were long and sharp, wolfish in the half-light of the cave. Coarse black hair, woven with gold beads and discs of carved ivory, framed eyes like splinters of rusted iron, set deep into a craggy brow. It was broad of chest and long of arm, almost apish in his posture, with tattoos in cinder and woad snaking across its swarthy hide. Grimnir was clad in antiquated splendor: a sleeveless hauberk of ring-mail and black leather, a kilt of poorly tanned horsehide cut from the flanks of a dappled roan, a cloak of wolf-skins, and arm-rings of gold, silver, and wrought iron. One black-nailed hand rested on the worn hilt of a long-seax.

So, writers, how do you define your Orcs? Do you follow the Tolkien line and make them a blighted race of slaves to some evil power? Are they the bloodthirsty greenskins of Warhammer, or the noble savages of WoW/Elder Scrolls? Or do you approach it differently? Brief prose examples of your Orcs would be great to help illustrate the route your're taking . . .

Greg wrote: "Scott wrote: "My own entry into Orc-related fiction was a short story called "Amarante", which was self-pubbed and is now out of circulation. I went the Tolkien-route, rather than the hulking green..."

"Amarante"? Probably so, once I get a couple of companion pieces ready to go with it. The novel mentioned is the "Norse Orc" piece. It's called A GATHERING OF RAVENS and should be out from St. Martin's Press hopefully this time next year.

S.wagenaar wrote: "Right now, I am interested in only one novel that features Orcs; Scott's nearly completed new novel-Go Scott!"

I'm on it, Stan! ;)

S.E. wrote: "This Orc crowd cracks me up. Great list, Scott. We are definitely going to have a Swords and a Orcs Groupread in 2015."

I'm down with that, SE :)

Oh, and here's a partial bibliography of Orc-centric and Orc-related fiction (novel-length; not done anything like it for short stories, though Sarah Lauderdale has taken it upon herself to create an exhaustive bibliography of *everything* Orc-related):

Anderson, Kevin J. The Orc's Treasure. New York: IBooks, 2005.

Argo, Sean-Michael. The Killing Spirit. Frederick, MD: PublishAmerica, 2004.

Dalmas, John. Orc Wars: The Yngling Saga, Books I & II. New York: Baen Books, 1992.

DeCandido, Keith R.A. World of Warcraft: Cycle of Hatred. New York: Pocket Books, 2006.

Farmer, Christopher J. Fallen Elves: The Second Neoluzian War. Lincoln, NB: iUniverse, 2004.

Gentle, Mary. Grunts. New York: ROC, 1992.

Golden, Christie. Warcraft: Lord of the Clans. New York: Pocket Books, 2001.
———. Warcraft: Rise of the Horde. New York: Pocket Books, 2006.

Hines, Jim C. Goblin War. New York: DAW, 2008.
(Third book in the Jig the Goblin series; only one to feature Orcs)

Howell, Morgan. Queen of the Orcs: King’s Property. New York: Del Rey, 2007.
———. Queen of the Orcs: Clan Daughter. New York: Del Rey, 2007.
———. Queen of the Orcs: Royal Destiny. New York: Del Rey, 2007.

Loeland, Kai Morgan. Battle of the Orcs. Milton Keynes: AuthorHouse UK, 2006.

Long, Nathan. Orcslayer. Nottingham: Black Library, 2006.

Lyons, Steve. Death World. Nottingham: Black Library, 2006.
(WH40K Orks)

Major, S.J. Children of the Orcs. Milton Keynes: AuthorHouse UK, 2006.

Mitchell, Sandy. Caves of Ice. Nottingham: Black Library, 2004.
———. Death or Glory. Nottingham: Black Library, 2006.
(WH40K Orks)

Nicholls, Stan. Bodyguard of Lightning*. London: Gollancz, 1999.
———. Legion of Thunder*. London: Gollancz, 1999.
———. Warriors of the Tempest*. London: Gollancz, 2000.
(*Also collected in the Orcs Omnibus)

Parker, Steve. Rebel Winter. Nottingham: Black Library, 2007.
(WH40K Orks)

Salvatore, R.A. The Thousand Orcs. Reston: Wizards of the Coast, 2003.
———. The Orc King. Reston: Wizards of the Coast, 2008.

Scanlon, Mitchell. Fifteen Hours. Nottingham: Black Library, 2005.
(WH40K Orks)

Tolkien, J.R.R. The Hobbit. New York: Ballantine Books, 1965.
———. The Lord of the Rings. New York: Ballantine Books, 1965.
———. The Silmarillion. New York: Ballantine Books, 1979.

Charles wrote: "I enjoyed Amarante!"

Thanks, mate! "Harvest of War" was great work, too. Wish I could have pulled that antho together . . .

I've read most of the Orc-themed books out there and they do tend to be hit-or-miss. Either they're parodies of the common view of Orcs (Mary Gentle's GRUNTS) or they don't really do enough to set Orcs apart as a species of their own. Some even use the term "Orc" without using any of the tropes that make Orcs orky (Morgan Howell's QUEEN OF THE ORCS trilogy).

My own entry into Orc-related fiction was a short story called "Amarante", which was self-pubbed and is now out of circulation. I went the Tolkien-route, rather than the hulking greenskins. I'm finishing up writing a novel that stems from a question: what if Tolkien had found the Orcs in Norse myth, as he did Dwarves and Elves. What would they be like? Further, what if they actually existed? How would they fit into Norse myth and history? With any luck, it should be out on shelves by this time next year.

Hey, all! My name is Scott and I'm a writer . . . which is also an acceptable entrance for a 12-step program :) I first discovered S&S when I was 10 or 11. My older brother had an extensive library, and I nicked a copy of the Ace edition of Conan from his shelves. I was hooked. I'd already read The Hobbit and discovered in REH a definite "earthier" vibe. From there, I discovered Wagner's Kane stories, HP Lovecraft, Lieber, David C. Smith's work, and -- thanks to my school librarian -- Harold Lamb's bio-novel of Alexander the Great.

I started out wanting to write S&S, but those first efforts were ham-handed pastiches of pastiches. Nevertheless, I sent them off to George Scithers at Weird Tales. Rather than burn them and send back their unholy ashes, he gently encouraged me to learn my craft. Years later, when I finally worked up the gumption to try novel-length stories, I switched my focus from pure S&S to ancient historical adventures. Thus was my first book born. 2005 saw the publication of Men of Bronze, followed by a Lambsian bio-novel of my own in 2006, called Memnon (concerning Memnon of Rhodes, Greek general and enemy of Alexander of Macedon). Not until 2010 and the publication of The Lion of Cairo did I return to S&S, though also couched in the trappings of history (imagine S&S in 12th century Fatimid Cairo . . . REH's "Gates of Empire" meets "The Arabian Nights" by way of Alamut).

Unfortunately, Lion was a little *too* historical and suffered from a lack of definitive genre identity. After a few hard years caring for my terminally-ill parents, I'm back to writing . . . this time, an homage not only to REH, but to Tolkien and Beowulf, as well: a S&S fairy tale that reverse engineers Orcs into Norse myth. I hope to have the first draft done in a matter of days.

So, that's me: writer, reader, gamer, geek. I'm glad to be amongst such good company!

Scott Oden