Kaycie’s Comments (group member since Sep 30, 2013)

Kaycie’s comments from the Classics Without All the Class group.

I saw this thread awhile ago, but couldn't find it again! Thanks for posting again! Here is my list:

A Anthony Burgess, “A Clockwork Orange”
B Bronte, Anne, “The Tenant of Wildfell Hall”
C Chopin, Kate, “The Awakening”
D Dickens, Charles, “Little Dorrit”
E EM. Forster, “Howard’s End”
F Faulkner, “The Sound and the Fury”
G Gaskell, Elizabeth, “North and South”
H Homer, “The Iliad”
I Ian McEwan, “Atonement”
J
K Kingsolver, Barbara, “The Poisonwood Bible”
L
M Marlowe, Christopher, “Doctor Faustus”
N
O
P Plath, Sylvia, “The Bell Jar”
Q
R
S
T Thomas Hardy, “Tess of the d’Urbervilles”
U
V
W Wilkie Collins, “The Moonstone”
X
Y
Z Zola, Emile, “Therese Ranquin”

Maura - W&P gets much much better, I promise! The beginning is really tough because you are just meeting tons of people, but then when you get the hang of who everyone is, it really picks up. In my opinion if you enjoyed Anna, you'll like W&P as well. Good luck!

I do have a hard time discerning time period differences because I forget that even though I wouldn't do those things, I have no idea if I would have done them THEN. But taking from the context of the book, it does seem like she is different from many other women of the time period. Her mom was talking like women frequently had dalliances with men before their marriages and just never told their husbands (or married the guy!). Her mother and girl friends do not seem to waffle as much on their decisions as she does. I have a feeling many other women were in Tess's situation, but handled it differently from her - thereby seemingly much less of a social outcast because of it.

I think a lot of her issues come from having different ideas from the rest of her friends and mother - as in actually wanting to be in love with and open with her husband. She wanted these things, but was either too shy to push for her way or society wasn't ready for it. For example, she had a sinking feeling that Alec was trouble, but didn't push hard enough to not go to Trantridge or go off with him. That would make it a character trait that was just incompatible with the times...not necessarily a flaw.

Wow.

This book actually redeemed itself a ton for me in the end, even though it was so horribly depressing. I tend to be super forgiving of people who realize their mistakes and try to make amends, and Angel's return in these parts was really touching. I thought he was a really terrible guy for how he treated Tess, but Tess also did herself no favors in that situation (didn't fight, didn't tell him right away, didn't go see his parents who could have helped her, didn't write to Angel sooner) to help him come around sooner. The fact that he did, came back, and wanted to fight for her showed real growth and maturity.

I was also weirdly proud of Tess for stabbing Alec. I was just thrilled that she finally stood up for herself and stopped just letting life knock her down further, even though it did come in a murderous rage. I wish that she could have done something less destructive to give more of a happy ending, but her rebellion showed that she also changed since the beginning of the novel.

I found it strange how the narration switched from Tess to other characters by the end. I saw so much of her mind during the rest of the book and wanted to see what she was thinking and feeling in the end, when I think I finally would have come around to her as a character. Its like once she "lost it" and saw Angel again then stabbed Alec, she was already "gone" and we no longer had access to her thoughts.

This book is very strange for me. I thought I had strong moral guidelines that I believed in, but found myself rooting for a murderer? And at no point have I really thought she was in the wrong for that, either. I love books that make you question things like right and wrong and re-evaluate judgments and perceptions!

And man, Hardy can write his butt off. Such a great novel.

I agree about her pride - this was especially apparent in the later chapters. I just tend to think shes not catching a break because shes not making her own breaks. Like you said - she lets other people decide things for her and waffles on decisions until shes really stuck between a rock and a hard place. At these points, no decision is going to be a good one, and it seems like nothing goes right for her.

Oh man, this is funny! I tend to not understand Tess's decisions, which is probably why I am having such a hard time understand her personality!

I don't have a particular decision here that is bad, but in general I just think she waits too long to make her decisions. The decisions she finally makes could have been "right" when it was first presented to her, but by the time she has decided to do it, I think she should be making a different one. I know I think just think very differently from Tess (and have a very different decision making process), so I was definitely not on board with her for most of the book. Still super interesting to read about someone so different from yourself, though!

Gah!! ugh!!! This section is driving me nuts!!

As per Tess, you either tell him before or you don't tell him! She just seems to make the worst possible decisions and I just don't know what to make of her! If you want to tell him that badly and think you couldn't live without telling, then tell him before you are married!

And Angel, just...wow. I am feeling like a very angry female right now after reading his reaction. So much in this book is so infuriating and heartbreaking, but the book is just so good. I love it when I love a book despite disliking most of the characters and the situations. Mark of a fantastic writer.

I am also wondering how I would have gotten on in this time. Would I still be able to feel the way I do now or would I feel as trapped and hopeless as Tess? I probably would not be as guilt-ridden as she is (I hope), so I do think I would have not told him if it got to the point where we were married. I guess herein lies the attraction of literature! We might never know, but its interesting to contemplate.

John - I am coming around to Tess's meekness actually being pride, but I am still confused on a few issues with her. I think this is where my conflict with her personality is coming in to play - I just do not understand her choices and have a hard time seeing where they are coming from. But I see her as meek in situations like where she really didn't want to go to Trantridge but went anyways. I still can't attribute that to pride (am I missing something?) Just massive guilt that makes her meek and complying at the worst possible moments for her! She just picks weird battles (to me) to fight versus not fight, and I can't place what is making her do that.

I agree about not really liking her though. I mean, I don't DISLIKE her, but as the novel progresses, I sympathize with her less. She is her own worst enemy, and I have a hard time relating to her.

OOO! I am sensing a book suggestion! I'd love to do a re-read! :-)

I have hardly ever been more impressed with a heroine that with Tess, after she knows she is "spoiled" for other men, leaving Alec and going back home anyways.

But this is also a conflict for me with Tess's character. She seems so meek and complying that I am surprised she had the courage to tell Alec she didn't love him and leave instead of trying to "trap him in marriage" like everyone is expecting. It is like she is sometimes a victim of fate, but occasionally wakes up, realizes how strong she is, and fights against her lot in life.

I was also incredibly touched by the scene with her mother after she returns home. Her mother was angry that Tess didn't marry Alec, but she was very understanding and almost sorry that she never warned Tess of the dangers she might face. It speaks strongly to education as well, that knowledge could have helped Tess be on her guard and prepare herself against men like Alec.

Agreed on everything with Tess! I was really impressed that a male author in 1891 would write this. Hardy seems to be as flabbergasted as I am that the positions that Tess and Alec are put into by society are considered okay.

And yes, Hardy's writing is incredible. I am really enjoying his style in this book.

Tess is a very strange character for me. She is very meek and mild, willing to do almost anything someone tells her to do, but she has an incredible strength of character I wasn't expecting (up and moving to Trantridge by herself to help her family!) This is also evidenced by her seemingly succumbing to Alec's advances, but then showing incredible courage and removing herself from the carriage.

I worry about her, though. She seems to take on burdens that aren't hers and really internalize them - she has a huge sense of guilt. She is also unfortunately the adult in her family in terms of having to take over for her parent's lapses, but is still very much a naive child.

Hi everyone!
I can't remember if I've introduced myself before, but I've been following along in the threads for a few months, but want to start participating! I live in Los Angeles, CA, and have been a huge book lover my whole life. My favorite book is Gone with the Wind, author is Pat Conroy. I wanted to join a book club to start expanding what I read and force myself to try things I normally wouldn't pick up. Some great finds, so far!