Shel’s Comments (group member since Mar 05, 2009)

Shel’s comments from the fiction files redux group.

I just saw Krapp's Last Tape this past weekend and it was heartbreaking. And frustrating. A lot of pathos/thanatos/eros.

Ry, exactly! In every presentation we get of Joe, there are reasons to believe he is one thing or another -- dichotomies abound. And so we are left - in a way - to choose the pieces of the description that fit with our own notion of who he is, piecing together the mystery of him into a "picture" that makes sense to the individual reader.

Parchment! And that's ALL I'm gonna say. For now. :)

You know what else I love? This quotidian diction he uses conveys such a lovely, crystal clarity.

"My, my. A body does get around."

Well, if we're getting started, I'm going to start with one of my favorite early passages about identity on page 33 of my edition (Vintage International, the gold one):

And that was the first time Byron remembered that he had ever thought how a man's name, which is supposed to be just the sound for who he is, can be somehow an augur of what he will do, if other men can only read the meaning in time. It seemed to him that none of them had looked especially at the stranger until they heard his name. But as soon as they heard it, it was as though there was something in the sound of it that was trying to tell them what to expect; that he carried with him his own inescapable warning, like a flower its scent or a rattlesnake its rattle.

Augur. I love that word augur: a seer or prophet, a soothsayer.

The idea that if we pay attention to a man's name we will understand some of what he is on earth to do.

There is a masculine bent to all of it, I thought, until you get to the flower. And then... the rattlesnake.

Well, if it means I have to give birth in silence or make other women do the same, I think I'll take a pass.

However. If they can recite Philip Larkin's This Be The Verse in whatever way they choose during labor, I'm in.

It touches upon issues between men and women too throughout the book, I think. This ability to be compassionate requires some kind of empathy -- a quality that I think seems to elude some characters in this book.

I thought that the kindness shown by the first woman we really hear about other than Lena (and her eternally pregnant or lying in sister in law) was definitely a moment to compare the kindness of strangers to the lack of kindness shown by other "family" members toward one another in this book.

The kindness of the human family vs. the intimately connected one.

I hesitate to go too far into it... because that would be a spoiler.

One of the most important aspects of the book is definitely one that has been mentioned by others, so I'll just echo, I guess - it's about how humans relate, don't relate, see each other and don't see... identity, intimacy... I didn't see as much distinction between men and women -- in this book I thought all of them could be equally cruel and kind -- but maybe I'll catch more of that this time around.

I think that's a great way to look at Light. Although the biggest mystery - well, you'll see.

There is a lot of mystery in this book... enough to give academics convulsions for years, apparently (kidding, kidding).

Zipping my lips now. Nope! Won't throw any spoilers in. :)

I don't know much about her and have only read a few of her books, but this story about how she lived her life is really intriguing.

It seems like... making up versions of self and life and stories... and forgive the snap judgment since I don't have much to go on, but ultimately unbelievably cruel to others.

Doesn't mean we can't do it.

JE = L. Ron Hubbard.

Now. Who's Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in our new cult?

Scientology Losing Ground To New Fictionology

May 11, 2005 | Issue 41•19

LOS ANGELES—According to a report released Monday by the American Institute of Religions, the Church of Scientology, once one of the fastest-growing religious organizations in the U.S., is steadily losing members to the much newer religion Fictionology.

"Unlike Scientology, which is based on empirically verifiable scientific tenets, Fictionology's central principles are essentially fairy tales with no connection to reality," the AIR report read. "In short, Fictionology offers its followers a mythical belief system free from the cumbersome scientific method to which Scientology is hidebound."

Created in 2003 by self-proclaimed messiah Bud Don Ellroy, Fictionology's principles were first outlined in the self-help paperback Imaginetics: The New Pipe-Dream Of Modern Mental Make-Believe.

Fictionology's central belief, that any imaginary construct can be incorporated into the church's ever-growing set of official doctrines, continues to gain popularity. Believers in Santa Claus, his elves, or the Tooth Fairy are permitted—even encouraged—to view them as deities. Even corporate mascots like the Kool-Aid Man are valid objects of Fictionological worship.

"My personal savior is Batman," said Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Greg Jurgenson. "My wife chooses to follow the teachings of the Gilmore Girls. Of course, we are still beginners. Some advanced-level Fictionologists have total knowledge of every lifetime they have ever lived for the last 80 trillion years."

"Sure, it's total bullshit," Jurgenson added. "But that's Fictionology. Praise Batman!"

While the Church of Fictionology acknowledges that its purported worldwide membership of 450 billion is an invented number, the AIR report estimates that as many as 70 percent of the church's followers are former Scientologists.

Church of Scientology public-relations spokesman Al Kurz said he was "shocked" when he learned that Fictionology is approaching the popularity of his religion.

"Scientology is rooted in strict scientific principles, such as the measurement of engrams in the brain by the E-Meter," Kurz said. "Scientology uses strictly scientific methodologies to undo the damage done 75 million years ago by the Galactic Confederation's evil warlord Xenu—we offer our preclear followers procedures to erase overts in the reactive mind. Conversely, Fictionology is essentially just a bunch of make-believe nonsense."

Hollywood actor David McSavage, who converted to Fictionology last year, attempted to explain.

"Scientology can only offer data, such as how an Operating Thetan can control matter, energy, space, and time with pure thought alone," McSavage said. "But truly spiritual people don't care about data, especially those seeking an escape from very real physical, mental, or emotional problems."

McSavage added, "As a Fictionologist, I live in a world of pretend. It's liberating."

A tax-exempt organization, the Church of Fictionology stands poised to become a great moneymaking power if it continues to grow at its current rate—a situation Kurz called "outrageous."

"In recruiting new members, Fictionology preys on the gullible with fanciful stories and simple-minded solutions," Kurz said. "Fictionology is depriving legitimate churches of the revenue they need to carry out charitable works worldwide—important charitable works like clearing the planet of body-thetan implants."
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I love The Onion.

Martha, I liked her book on Marilyn Monroe. Not for everyone. But I liked it.

Ry, I totally agree about the Flannery O'Connor connection, especially the parallels between Arnold and The Misfit in A Good Man is Hard to Find. The Misfit had two accomplices, as I recall - Hiram and Bobby Lee, who are more directly involved in actually enacting the evil deeds than Ellie is. The Misfit also has some weird issues with his feet and ankles as I recall: no socks, red, scratched ankles, and some odd, two-toned shoes.

Regarding the development of Connie's character, I thought that Oates' physical descriptions were interesting, almost setting Connie up as inviting or deserving what happened to her, especially the part about looking one way at home and quite another way when she went out. The compasisons to June were also interesting, since June is dropped pretty quickly from the story line.

I think SmartyKate's point here is interesting about the connection between Flannery and JCO. I totally see it. In A Good Man Is Hard to Find, my stomach always turns so quickly and thoroughly, even though I've read the story a hundred times (and bought this extremely cool pulp fiction version of it at Chicago's Lit Fair).

Who else might we connect her to? I mean, since we're reading Faulkner and all...

I think his stripping people to the bone, and lack of connection and understanding, is something that links these two writers, perhaps.

The story seems to communicate to us that its not only the choices we make, but also our motivations for our choices that make us who we are. The Connie that would have given into A.Friend's seduction for sexual pleasure or exploration is a totally different Connie from the one who gives into Friend's seduction to save her family. I like the subtlety of this idea and certainly think that its a correct notion.

I want to pick up on this theme from Ry's earlier post and unpack it a bit. If only my coffee were ready to drink I might be able to say more about this, but I will think more and post later.

Although I'd also like to say that, Patrick, if the other stuff I've read by JCO is any indication, the father would suffer in his powerless state, wanting to find and kill, but unable to do so for a variety of reasons, and the anger would eat him from the inside out.

Ry - I agree. One thing I've found about her characters is the ownership, lack thereof, and the shifts in intention all seem paramount.

That may be why I like her so much. The intentions are rarely what I expect them to be. Maybe that's why she writes horror so well.

Care to elaborate on your thoughts of intention/action?

Yeah, I was wondering about that too until I read Dan's comment about Connie being the only multi-dimensional character. So it was intentional, of course, but why? ..."

I think this story has so many edges and does so much in such a short space, which is why it's considered one of her best.

Every word is steeped with intention - every image, like a poem - at some point we hear that the mirrored sunglasses on Friend reflect the whole world in miniature. To me that was about how he sees the world in relation to him, even if he's not Satan.

I thought the music was there for a pied piper, or even hypnotic effect.

It is true that there is never an explicit threat.

I've read a fair amount of JCO and a lot of her work has young girls in peril - but a lot of it also has those girls either fighting back, or fighting back to themselves after being victimized. This story left me with no hope for her.

In truth we are left at the end of this story to guess at the potentially gruesome outcome.

It is a morality play with grey, I think you're right, Ry.

I'm a bit confused about the role of Ellie.

Why is he even there?

"Him, he's crazy," he said. "Ain't he a riot? He's a nut, a real character." Ellie was still listening to the music. His sunglasses told nothing about what he was thinking. He wore a bright orange shirt unbuttoned halfway to show his chest, which was a pale, bluish chest and not muscular like Arnold Friend's. His shirt collar was turned up all around and the very tips of the collar pointed out past his chin as if they were protecting him. He was pressing the transistor radio up against his ear and sat there in a kind of daze, right in the sun.

"He's kinda strange," Connie said.

"Hey, she says you're kinda strange! Kinda strange!" Arnold Friend cried. He pounded on the car to get Ellie's attention. Ellie turned for the first time and Connie saw with shock that he wasn't a kid either—he had a fair, hairless face, cheeks reddened slightly as if the veins grew too close to the surface of his skin, the face of a forty-year-old baby. Connie felt a wave of dizziness rise in her at this sight and she stared at him as if waiting for something to change the shock of the moment, make it all right again. Ellie's lips kept shaping words, mumbling along with the words blasting in his ear.

OK...! Discussion started. ;)

EXACTLY, Ry! Not cut and dry at all.

Morality turned on its head.

Painful. Contradictory.

So, in reading over these posts and perhaps unduly influenced by Tom Waits' Devil in The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus, I am thinking that this story is something of a modern day (?) morality play about temptation, the seductive and then threatening nature of evil, and that the godly path Connie chooses is her demise, to save her family.

Satan being ever-present and all-knowing, like A. Friend is - he knows exactly where the rest of her family is and seems even to know what they are doing at that moment. He is at first seductive, and only when the seduction doesn't work does he become terrifying. The turning point being, when he told her what he was going to do to her - other stuff being scary, but this is where it turned for me:

"Yes, I'm your lover. You don't know what that is but you will," he said. "I know that too. I know all about you. But look: it's real nice and you couldn't ask for nobody better than me, or more polite. I always keep my word. I'll tell you how it is, I'm always nice at first, the first time. I'll hold you so tight you won't think you have to try to get away or pretend anything because you'll know you can't. And I'll come inside you where it's all secret and you'll give in to me and you'll love me."

(Let me caveat my opinion by saying I have a pathetic amount of religious education. Everything I know is self-taught. No indoctrination, and therefore no deep understanding, of nearly any seminal religious concept, inhabit my psyche. But I am rolling with Ry's mention of the references to the devil and Flannery O'Connor.)

You could argue, I suppose, that Connie was a child and therefore not subject to judgment for her sins, but I think we are meant to judge her for wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Even though as I was reading it I was thinking, well, she sounds pretty superficial but not abnormally so for a teenage girl.

Now I'm going to go back and re-read the story and see what else I can think of to generate discussion.

What a great connection, Ry, between being/perceiving an outsider and what it leads to in the novel itself. It seems *somewhat* obvious - connecting the outsider with persecution - but really, the way it's layered in, it's quite nuanced and complex in how these ideas emerge in *all* of the characters presented. You really have to take a step back to see how those connections work.

One of the things Hugh mentioned when he and I read it was the distinct lack of family, which is sort of like the alienation you mention. I'll leave off there; maybe he will add more.

Although technically I should be writing something right now about the JCO story.

JE - seriously - it's just good story telling (have you read it?). There are some parallels between - god, was his name Ethan? - in West of Here... I think, anyway...

Wait til we get to Joe Christmas. Sparks fly.