William’s Comments (group member since Dec 14, 2013)

William’s comments from the On Tyrants & Tributes : Real World Lessons From The Hunger Games group.

This is a fantastic article. Collins (and the Film makers of the movies) use a variety of techniques to allude to the dangers that the book is explaining. By alluding to 20th century totalitarianism, one can clearly see that totalitarianism is not only a possible, but it is possible in modern times. A major theme throughout the series is that the people must stand up and defend their liberty. Additionally, government can always grow too big and despotic, no matter who is running it. Ultimately, it is up to the people to make the changes and sacrifices necessary to assure that liberty survives. Thinking about the recent past should serve as a reminder of the very real possibility that despotism could arise in any given society.

Monkeybench wrote: "I like what Nietzsche had to say on the matter. “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also lo..."

SPOILERS: I never thought of the Katniss's vote in favor of the "final Hunger Games" as a slippage away from her morals due to Prim. This is a very interesting point. This is a pivotal part of the story, which I considered at some length when I read it. I thought that Katniss voted the way that she did not only for retribution, but also because she knew that she could not stop such despotism (in this case through that final game). Even with her vote against the final Game, those who were taking power would abuse it in one way or another. I guess I attributed her vote to her conception of concentrated power and her pessimism when it came to leading and changing her world. She (and Haymich) allowed the games to happen because even if it was voted down by the victors someone would find a way around the vote. Additionally, a vote in favor of Coin's proposal would allow her to get within arrow range of the President. I find your theory interesting, and I agree with you 100% that Katniss was always trying to protect Prim, who she cared for the most.

Monkeybench wrote: "I like what Nietzsche had to say on the matter. “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also lo..."

SPOILERS: I never thought of the Katniss's vote in favor of the "final Hunger Games" as a slippage away from her morals due to Prim. This is a very interesting point. This is a pivotal part of the story. I thought that Katniss voted the way that she did not only for retribution, but also because she knew that she could not stop such despotism (in this case through that games). Even with her vote against the final Games, those who were taking power would abuse it in one way or another. I guess I attributed her vote to her conception of concentrated power and her pessimism when it came to leading, and changing her world. She (and Haymich) allowed the games to happen because even if it was voted down by the victors someone would find a way around the vote. Additionally, a vote in favor of Coin's proposal would allow her to get within arrow range of the President. I find your theory interesting, and I agree with you 100% that Katniss was in this to protect Prim who she cared for the most.

I found all of these points to be very interesting. I have some input on all three.
1. The division between the career politicians in Washington and the common people is immense. The fact that some politicians reside in D.C. for most of the year while claiming to represent the people from their state or district is extraordinary. This fact, coupled with Congress’s continual habit of legislating one set of rules for themselves and another set for everyone else, has dire implications for our republic. That being said, I do not think that Collins’s depiction of the Capitol vs. the Districts can be directly related to our situation in the U.S. today. However, I do think that the dangers presented in our system today can lead to a concentration of power in the hands of a “political class.” The implications of this failing in our system may not be quite as horrific as Collins’s portrayal, but the picture that she paints can serve as an example of what could happen. Those who represent us in the U.S. (or in any liberal democracy or republic) need to be held accountable to those who they represent. When they become alienated from their constituents they are then no longer held accountable by the people. This leads us down a dangerous road, toward a society where one is not represented but ruled.
2. [contains spoilers]. Throughout the Hunger Games series, Katniss struggles with conception of power. While it is clear that Katniss is a pragmatic character (see the discussion in book 1 between her and Gail, in which she scoffs at his idealist notions of changing the way their world is conceived) who only wishes to support her family, she becomes more and more skeptical of those in power as time goes on. Who wouldn’t if they were in her situation? So once Katniss meets the Rebels she finds that she does not care for them much (due to their extremely regimented lifestyles) and that she does not trust them. We see throughout the last book that Katniss struggles with promoting the rebel cause because of her lack of belief in the movement itself. Ultimately, Katniss seems to revert back to her apathy by the end, living life in solitude while trying to forget the terrible experiences she went through. I believe that Collins is trying to portray – through Katniss’s skepticism of those in power – that power corrupts people (to use Lord Acton’s words). Power is force, and force cannot be entrusted to anyone. Furthermore, a system that seeks to give extraordinary individual (such as a Washington) large amounts of power will fail as soon as an average individual takes control. This systemic problem is illustrated throughout the series, as Katniss does not support anyone taking over after Snow, even those she likes and trusts.
3. [contains spoilers] I think that unlike Washington and Cincinnatus, Katniss and Peeta withdrew from the world because they had both been broken by those in power. Peeta had been changed, and Katniss had plunged back into her abyss of apathy. That being said, I loved the way the story ended, but I think the message in the ending is much more complicated that comparing Katniss to Washington or Cincinnatus. While this is most definitely part of the message, I think that the further message is that change is hard fought. Katniss and Peeta both gave their lives to try to change the world that they lived in. Their sacrifice brought about some change, but we never see the full extent of that change. I like to think that the Rebels made a better society, even if it was only slightly better. Collins was perhaps attempting to say that change is not easy, and that change cannot solve all the problems all at once, rather change would occur through a piecemeal process. Furthermore, this process would not solve all problems so long as imperfect human beings were in charge.

The Classical themes presented throughout The Hunger Games deepen the message that Collins was attempting to convey. Throughout time humankind has struggled between freedom and tyranny. This struggle was exemplified in the Persian Wars, in which Xerxes was attempting to destroy Greece and institute his own rule. This is just one example of numerous from ancient history and legends in which the Ancients fought for liberty against despotism. These two articles add more layers to the numerous ancient examples that Collins uses for inspiration. These articles add more depth to the story, and also legitimatize it by adding to the conversation that has taken place throughout history. These ancient inspirations –illustrated in the articles -- make the story more compelling as it draws the reader in by using time-tested methods of storytelling. What was interesting to the people thousands of years ago is still interesting today. In discussing liberty, one must realize the emotional attachment that many have to it. It is something to cherish, to be fought for. In The Hunger Games, as in Ancient myths and history, the characters must stand up for liberty, for their freedom, and defend it. All of the ancient influences draw me into the story, as the parallels are interesting and important. The message is that liberty is an end in itself, and must be fought for and protected. I cannot wait to learn more.