Sher’s Comments (group member since Nov 23, 2020)

Sher’s comments from the Nonfiction Reading - Only the Best group.

Steve wrote:
"Is Chekhov trying to tell us that there are different kinds of love and that each one, though unalike, is beyond our control. "

and
"Is there a right and a wrong way to love? "

I find both of these comments/questions interesting and something to think about. Recall in the story - how when Olenka had someone to love/ someone to devote body / soul. and mind to, that everyone she met was happy to see her -- happy to know her. She glowed and they glowed. Why is that? Do we admire a person in love? Does seeing someone in love--devoted wholly uplift us? It crossed my mind that her love in some ways is like the love of the Christian God-- total surrender- total devotion- no mind of one's own, but a complete and faith and regurgitation of the Word. The devoted one awaits the Beloved's will to be shown.

Larry wrote: "There is another reason to like the slowness of a story like the Singers and that is that it serves as a respite from the immediacy of our digital world. I love the digital world but it comes with ..."

I appreciate this insight Larry- This is why I read Henry James short stories, and I'll probably read them all. over my lifetime Each night, during this incredibly busy time of cooking, caring, and socializing for/with three additional people (not to mention 30 animals and 2 big gardens) to relax at night I have been reading Henry James. Slow... and a step back into 19th C. I have the option of Raymond Carver, but I don't have the taste for anything even close to modern --at this time anyway. And, James is a good example, because pretty much all his endings are dissatisfying, so much so, that I get used to this-- not the typical you get it - you are gratified happy endings. James is known for those types of endings. Not at all what the digital age promises.

I love the way this one reads John— thanks or sharing…

p.s. because of all the company arriving tomorrow, I won't begin "The Darling" or story three until June 15th as per schedule.

I finished Saunders' interpretive material about "The Singers." I enjoy reading his insights and I really loved the Henry James quote. Strange- Saunders calls this story a masterpiece but he seems to have no problem dissing the author.

After reading Saunders , do you feel any differently about the story?

For me the answer is no. His arguments did not move me at all.

His view of the ending is clever, but I am not sure it was Turkenev's reason to end in such a way. In Saunders imagination the ending is terrific -- because Turkenev has the nerve to do it-- not enough connection for me I fear.

Everyone- I am posting now on The Singers (story 2) from Saunders book; I don't have time to read another translation, but I wanted to weigh in between all this cleaning and moving to the barn apartment--getting ready for the parents and stepdaughter on Saturday.

I'm reminding you of the questions---
1. Was there a place in the story you found particularly moving?
I felt Turkenev did an excellent job describing the singing; being a singer I was so curious to see how he was able to depict the singing competition. They were both extraordinary singers, Yashka's singing had a spiritual element that made more of an impact-- this was beautifully contrasted in my mind by Turkenev later showing Yashka as drunk. Obviously he was transformed when singing into an angelic being, but reverts to bodily indulgence once his singing has stopped.

2. Did you find something about the story that was confusing-- or did you find yourself resisting as aspect of the story? I resisted being told what to think- for example, when the narrative shifted suddenly to telling me about Blinkey and Booby. Also, Turkenev was too much a part of the story-- he referred to us as readers. Contrived. I also viscerally felt whenever he shifted into telling or geography the pace of the narrative slowed, and I felt this so much, I marked each passage with the word S L O W. This reminds me of when a fiddle tune is being played and the rhythm is off -- the dancers feel it- they may not be sure what is wrong but they bodily feel the change in pace.
Plus his transitions overall are poor- too sharp and jarring-- is this on purpose?

What about the ending? It feel pretty flatly for me. Why choose this ending?

Steve asked if this style would be accepted by a 21st editor. I would venture no... I have no idea what Saunders will say after all he chose this story for the book...?

3. What moment did you find yourself tearing up, getting annoyed, or thinking in new ways? See above...

4. What did you feel about this story and when did you feel it?

I felt enthusiasm to experience the singing, and I was very curious how it would be done via literature. I felt like there were almost too many characters- non were well developed. I have no idea who the speaker is though we are told.

Did you have any characters you resonated with? For me? No. But, I was most intrigued by the Wild Gentleman.

I saw the Cozy Cottage as a character. The place where everything of interest happened and the place the characters visited. An entire novel could have been written around this pup.

I haven't read Saunders' assessment yet---

On another, another note - I will be posting on C 2 early in the reading schedule -- meaning June 8 or 9th. I have my parents and my stepdaughter coming to visit for two weeks, and so, June 12 - 24 I will be distracted--but I will have evenings in our guest apartment, because we are giving everyone the main house. So, this is probably the only way I will get some time to post.

Steve- great idea to use these lessons in Saunders book for our writing projects.

Jerome:
Thank you for your detailed response and observations. Your post shows literature at work. It's what I was getting at -- how do stories make us reflect on our own lives? A good example, but I also get your worry and hope things work out. For me -- it made me reflect on what is that makes people ineffectual? I believe I mentioned this before, but I do believe culture plays a big role. Conditioning. Marya is a tepid character as result, I think, of her era, previous station, and sex. She's given up- and we see tiny sparks of longing, but in her case she's better off not longing.

Good for you John- I had a similar experience with Bloomberg. After all we are retired... :)

John, How are you finding Dunn's _ Local Visitations_?

How do like the handling of the Sisyphus myth through the series of poems...

I am just starting the section covering 19th C writers-- before this it has been mixed for me. Some I really like and some leave me flat.

Do you have a favorite so far? I like "Circular" and "The Other Side of Time" both are rather opaque, philosophical, metaphysical, but I am able to apply my spiritual - metaphysical view, so both the poems are satisfying. :)

I just posted Stephen Dunn's The Arm, and some of Dunn's poetry reminds me of Billy Collins's poetry. That normally doesn't happen for me, but I think it has to do with how Dunn often begins with something familiar and then quickly moves off into other realms, and also how Dunn 's work can be whimsical and fanciful at times.

I like The Arm, because of the places the dog walker's imagination takes him - based on seeing this doll's arm floating in the pond. Tells a story and very image based... interesting.

The Arm || Stephen Dunn

A doll's pink, broken-off arm
was floating in a pond
a man had come to with his dog.
The arm had no sad child nearby
to say it was hers, no parent to rescue it
with a stick or branch,

and this pleased the man to whom
absence always felt like opportunity.
He imagined a girl furious
at her younger sister, taking it out on her
one limb at a time.

Yet the sun was glancing off
the arm's little pink fingers,
and the pond's heart-shaped lily pads
seemed to accentuate an oddness,
which he thought beautiful.

When he and the dog looked for
the doll's body but couldn't find it,
a different image came to him,
of a father who hated the fact
that his son liked dolls.
What was floating there

was a punishment that didn't work,
for the boy had come to love
his one-armed doll even more.
Once again the man was struck
by how much misery
the human spirit can absorb.

His dog wanted to move on,
enough of this already.
But the man was creating little waves
with his hands, and the arm, this thing
his wife was sure to question,
was slowly bobbing toward him.

So to turn the discussion and move to another question— we have all thought about the story, but is there anything in the story that applies to your life? Can you see anything in the story that speaks to you about your experience of life?

For me it brings up a real world pondering or question and that is what qualities or experiences make people simply ineffectual an impotent in handling their own happiness? Why are some people seemingly more successful at reaching happiness and fulfillment than others?

Both Hanov and the girl seem to have had some material/ financial resources. Culturally there were not barred from success.

What does this story say or might it suggest about the role of the mind in one’s happiness?

Larry and John:
Do you know of this poetry journal? I love it. The quality is incredibly high and the material diverse. Here is their mission statement...

https://www.rattle.com/info/about-us/

Larry- I am very intrigued by your friends new book about Walt Whitman's democracy as seen through _ A song of Myself_. John and I are doing a William Blake discussion in July-- but we might get some interest to read the new book this fall...

How do you appreciate the way Saunders breaks down and analyzes story? He takes it page by page- scene by scene (almost). Do you find that approach effective? It's different isn't it- we normally read a story all the way through and then comment.

Dang-- I lost my long post; I will try again.

Whereas Steve and Larry felt frustration, I felt disappointment. I kept reading, because I was eager to see what would happen to Marya. The 19th C romantic in me hoped she might find love or happiness--ha, but that would not make for the good story. :)

I thought Chekhov's depiction of Marya 's mental return to some interior preoccupation instead of responding emotionally to what was being said, was an excellent example of how in a rut she was.

The end of the story was the clincher. I perhaps knew it could not end well, because of the way the story slips into the dream world and becomes rather surreal.

How close to real people are these characters Hanov and the Schoolmistress? So ineffectual at obtaining fulfillment.

I would have liked to have looked inside of Hanov's story?

"The Death of A Toad" is gorgeous and moving-- this poem has the ability, for me, of making me feel or imagine that I am there...

"In the wide and antique eyes," also I like the way the lines are broken and handled.

Here is a list of question to consider as you read each of the seven short stories for our June read A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life provided by Saunders.

1. Was their a place in the story you found particularly moving?

2. Did you find something about the story that was confusing-- or did you find yourself resisting as aspect of the story?

3. What moment did you find yourself tearing up, getting annoyed, or thinking in new ways?

4. What did you feel about this story and when did you feel it?

You will see this list will be available all of June in a separate thread in this folder....so you can refer back to the list any time.

Here is a list of question to consider as you read each of the seven short stories for our June read A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life provided by Saunders.

1. Was there a place in the story you found particularly moving?

2. Did you find something about the story that was confusing-- or did you find yourself resisting an aspect of the story?

3. What moment did you find yourself tearing up, getting annoyed, or thinking in new ways?

4. What did you feel about this story and when did you feel it?