Sandra’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2020)

Sandra’s comments from the The Obscure Reading Group group.

I just finished. Such a sad story. I was actually quite moved by Father Time. I understand his behavior may seem unmotivated, but I recognize how tragic his life was. Some might say that when Oedipus blinds himself with the brooch, the scene is melodramatic too. I remember one year I took students to see the play and warned them that some immature students would likely laugh when Oedipus puts out his eyes. We talked about how close tragedy is to melodrama. When at the play, my students were shocked that others actually did laugh. Some might say certain tragic Shakespeare scenes also border on melodrama. I’m curious how you all distinguish between tragedy and melodrama.

Hardy certainly drove home his messages about poor Jude.

And I am on Part Six: Chapter 2. So incredibly sad.

One thing I always told my students, when interpreting a character, look for evidence that supports the author’s view of him/her. I can find very little in Hardy’s text to support any sympathy for Arabella. I can find endless support to believe Hardy himself sympathized with both Sue and Jude. What do you think about this? Of course the reader can come to a conclusion about a character that differs from the author’s....

Jan, thank you for sharing the excerpt. I fear it will always be thus, given human nature. I have throughly enjoyed everyone’s comments. So much to ponder! I have been hit hard by the references to marriage. But I really see how Hardy parallels Jude’s life to that of innocent creatures—like the rabbit whose suffering he took such pity on. (And so did Sue).

I am just beginning the last reading due on Friday. I know. I sound like a student and even am behind like a student. I still like Sue and don’t see her as flirtatious. I think I identify with her lack of confidence in marriage, but I think Hardy did too. Arabella—hmmm. I remember how the book ends, but I am hoping to see things I didn’t see when I read it at nineteen!

Ken... Peter Quince... I mean ( my students’ favorite play and character (Bottom). I appreciate your thoughts. I agree there’s much rationale to like Sue. She is unconventionally conventional (women are so confusing, to men, and, even to each other). I actually find myself sympathizing with her conflicted feelings. Love isn’t all that easy. I would LOVE to continue this group and read a Shakespeare play together.

I’m reading every comment. Thanks for all the critical thinking! I notice the men have dropped out of the dialogue; I hope not permanently. I like the in-depth analysis of the female characters. What interesting thoughts about names.

I don’t feel as frustrated with Jude as some of you. I feel that Hardy is reflecting how difficult society makes education and advancement for the working class. This is unfortunately still true. At what point are we able to rise above our family history?


Is marriage difficult for everyone? All classes? And why?

I’m behind in my reading, but I just want to jump in here to say that I find it fascinating that while most of the period writers, and even Hardy in other novels, portray women as victims, in this book, a man is the victim. Yes?

I cannot imagine that Hardy intended us to see much to defend in Arabella’s character. It’s interesting that some of you like her, or at least admire her. Personally, I hope I am not betraying womankind by saying how much I dislike her. In Tess of the D’Ubervilles, although Tess is a farm girl, she is quite different from Arabella. It’s very easy to sympathize with Tess, just as it’s easy to sympathize with Jude. So many victims in Hardy’s worldview.

The comment that Jude waits and waits made me think of Hamlet. Too much thinking causes inaction, thereby becoming a fatal flaw.

Love these connections to Blake. Ken, sounds like a fascinating classroom you created. I used Tennyson’s “Lady of Shalott” and Loreena McKennit’s version. My students still comment about this. Oh, and I had a copy of Waterhouse’s painting hanging on my classroom wall.

I’m truly enjoying your poetry, Ken. I read one or two to my husband at breakfast. Great way to start the day. He’s also a retired English teacher!

Kathleen, I think you are right. I really relate to Jude now that I’m a retired teacher, but as I read I continue to understand why I identified so much with this book when I was “between” college experiences. My parents divorced when I was young, and I did very poorly at the university during my first year. But when I read about Jude, I was angry and determined to return to college and do better. My story ended well. I hope Jude’s does....

Yes, John. Fascinating comments. What I love about Hardy’s writing—it’s beautiful prose, and a reader can glean as much intellectual stimulation from it or read it as a love story, although I think perhaps a tragic one.

I’m enjoying all of these comments. Of course the fact that Jude might be named for Saint Jude the patron saint of lost causes is important I think.

I can’t help but wonder and I may be way off with this if Hardy wasn’t thinking of what happened to Oedipus at the crossroads. The whole concept of fate (and incest) and then Hardy brings in the crossroads and meeting at the cross, which could definitely be just a Christian reference, but I think it’s probably a Greek reference as well.

Arabella is certainly not a sympathetic character. Marriage as an institution, like religion and universities, seems abhorrent to Hardy. I detect a definite leaning towards the trades, although Jude at this point only sees his skill as a means to attaining “higher education.” I can relate to Hardy’s disdain for society! Jude really is alone. I know I sympathized with him when I read it the first time at age nineteen or so. Do you think it’s easier for college students to identify with Jude or is age unimportant? So much of the criticism of society, etc. is still pertinent.

I agree. I highlighted that passage as well as the one when he “could scarcely bear to see the trees cut down” from an idea that it hurt them. Jude’s love for nature makes me think Hardy tends towards a type of nature worship, if not exactly paganism. Christminster initially seems to echo Saint Augustine’s “city of God.”
Hardy uses so much light imagery (when Jude views it from afar).

Yes, Fergus. I completely agree. The next nineteen-year-old dreamer that I was fell in love with the book. Rereading it for the first time in some fifty five years, I can definitely see why I did. I’m just ti chapter four, but I’m throughly enjoying the beautiful prose and even the cynicism I feel growing.

Layse, how wonderful you are joining. My son and his wife live in Singapore!

Carol, of course I read Jude so many years ago that it will be interesting to rediscover why I was drawn to him. I have to agree that Heathcliff is beyond dark, but for reasons I have tried to analyze, I always sympathized with him—his being an orphan and “lower class” and all.

So Kathleen, think of Jude as a comrade to Heathcliff and you will understand the “darkness!”

Ken, thanks for organizing this group. Also, I love that you read Hardy because of Holden! Catcher in the Rye was the book to go to when I felt like a misunderstood teenager. I even included a chapter about it in my childhood memoir. Tess and Jude and Hamlet all tied for second place!

Hi. I’m Sandy from Madison, Wisconsin. We are experiencing cold and snow! I read Jude on my own the summer between 1964-65 when I was nineteen. It was one of my favorite books back then, and I am eager to read it again, especially with all of you.