Alex’s answer to “Why did Oliver get married? Wasn't he still in love with Elio?” > Likes and Comments
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I'm glad <3 A good story without closure is torture.
I didn't appreciate the ending of this book until I read your response; thank you for making me see the conclusion in a different (beautiful) light.
Also, have you seen the movie yet? I thought the ending was spectacular and very moving.
Angela - you can't imagine how happy I am that I made someone see something new in this book <3
Yeah, I've just seen it :D A couple of days ago. I had mixed feelings at first. Guess it's because the book means so much to me on a very personal level, and in the script a lot of changes were made in things I felt were crucial. But it grew on me. And you're right about the ending, LOVED IT. I think especially that closing father/son exchange hits hard for a lot of people because Elio's parents are a perfect blend of caring-but-letting-go. The kind of parents everyone would like, but they happen so rarely.
I too love your response. I just finished the book today, and I had purchased it immediately after watching the film. I am in love with both.
I love this response. My exact feelings on the ending and interpretation. <3 <3
Alex, what an insightful response. It made me feel better! lol
I want to have that kind of romance Elio and Oliver had. Oliver was mean though. I don't think Oliver was ever as into Elio as Elio was into Oliver. Elio was cute. I would love on him. Lol
I don't think he was mean. I think he was older, more experienced and perceptive, and therefore more cautious. He always said that "he knew himself", he knew that the dam would break the moment he'd let his guard down, and he felt the responsibility to set the boundaries for both of them. Which, IMO, is even more of a testament for how much he cared. Like he said to Vimini, he actually believed he was the one who cared more. And I really think he did; being closer to his age than Elio's, I can totally relate to the mealstrom of feelings he must have had regarding an attraction towards a 17-year-old.
If Oliver were truly more perceptive, cautious, and caring, he would have resisted at the beginning if he felt he would break Elio’s heart. I don’t think what he did was caring. Elio seemed more mature and loving to me than Oliver. Elio’s feelings were very clear at the end. He was a very smart and mature 17-year-old. And Oliver would have had great in-laws.
I agree with Alex. I saw the movie and just finished re-reading the book after reading it first years ago. The comment from Vimini stood out to me more than it did the first time and answered my question of did Oliver love Elio or just care for him a great deal. It seems he loved Elio a great deal and the idea of what that love could be more than he was comfortable. I think succumbing to the relationship terrified Oliver because he know he could never continue it into his real world and real life--even if Elio moved to the states for college and they found each other single years later--he was terrified of breaking Elio. Oliver came from a far more conservative family and him being in a relationship with a man is not something he could do in in the 80's...a story many men his age from that era and before often tragically accepted.
But how can Oliver be “terrified of breaking Elio” if that’s exactly what Oliver did? I don’t think there can be a question that Elio’s heart was broken.
Well, he did resist Elio at first, didn't he? He only succumbed after Elio wrote that note to him. Oliver wasn't a god, he didn't orchestrate this, he changed his mind a couple of times through the book. It was a tangled mess of emotions on his part, too.
By "more perceptive" I mean he had a different perspective on things that you only get once you get older, set into the drill of professional work, social niceties - in general, being a full-time adult and being seen as such. Also, having experienced being a teenager and knowing how big a mental and emotional difference between that age and 24 is. As much as Elio was precocious, it's impossible not to see yourself as the one bearing the burden of responsibility when the situation involves a 17-year-old. Even if said 17-year-old shows all signs of being your kindred soul.
When Oliver succumbed at last, after Elio wrote that note to him, I think it was the moment he decided to risk treating Elio as an adult. That he was strong enough to take whatever happens. That it was better to live through that thing between them, whatever it was, instead of trying to act safe. „Grow up”, he wrote back, and it was up to Elio if he decided to show up at midnight under this condition.
I don't know, Dave. I don't think we're going to convince you here, and that's fine, I respect that. It's just that to me, there's incredible beauty and courage in being able to seize the moment and let yourself feel whatever life brings - not because you're blind to possible consequences, but in spite of them. I'm the "better to have loved and lost" kind of person, I guess. I had my heart broken a couple of times and I'm greatful to every person who broke it. I’d have been greatful to Oliver in Elio’s place, for letting me have my first love as fullfilled as it could be under the circumstances.
I hear you, Alex, and I respect your opinion as well. My Meyer's/Brigg's personality type though is advocate/counselor (I'm a lawyer), so I tend to be more thoughtful and protective, rather than acting based primarily on feelings. I think your feeling--that you are grateful to everyone who has broken your heart and would have been grateful to Oliver if you were Elio--is an uncommon one. I could never see myself ever doing that to a 17-year-old kid if I cared about him because I would worry about breaking his heart as well as my heart, especially knowing that I would be leaving. I also would not want to carry the weight and guilt of being the first person to break Elio's heart. That's just me.
Oh, OK, that explains a lot :) I am ENTP apparently, and whether the test's to be trusted or not, our answers must've differed on a lot of points. Nevertheless, that was an interesting discussion -- just goes to show how different our POVs can get, even though you'd think the narration of the story somewhat dictates the interpretation.
You're probably right about this being an uncommon feeling :) I'm an odd one, what you gotta do
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Alex
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Jan 13, 2018 05:33AM
I'm glad <3 A good story without closure is torture.
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I didn't appreciate the ending of this book until I read your response; thank you for making me see the conclusion in a different (beautiful) light.Also, have you seen the movie yet? I thought the ending was spectacular and very moving.
Angela - you can't imagine how happy I am that I made someone see something new in this book <3Yeah, I've just seen it :D A couple of days ago. I had mixed feelings at first. Guess it's because the book means so much to me on a very personal level, and in the script a lot of changes were made in things I felt were crucial. But it grew on me. And you're right about the ending, LOVED IT. I think especially that closing father/son exchange hits hard for a lot of people because Elio's parents are a perfect blend of caring-but-letting-go. The kind of parents everyone would like, but they happen so rarely.
I too love your response. I just finished the book today, and I had purchased it immediately after watching the film. I am in love with both.
I love this response. My exact feelings on the ending and interpretation. <3 <3
Alex, what an insightful response. It made me feel better! lol
I want to have that kind of romance Elio and Oliver had. Oliver was mean though. I don't think Oliver was ever as into Elio as Elio was into Oliver. Elio was cute. I would love on him. Lol
I don't think he was mean. I think he was older, more experienced and perceptive, and therefore more cautious. He always said that "he knew himself", he knew that the dam would break the moment he'd let his guard down, and he felt the responsibility to set the boundaries for both of them. Which, IMO, is even more of a testament for how much he cared. Like he said to Vimini, he actually believed he was the one who cared more. And I really think he did; being closer to his age than Elio's, I can totally relate to the mealstrom of feelings he must have had regarding an attraction towards a 17-year-old.
If Oliver were truly more perceptive, cautious, and caring, he would have resisted at the beginning if he felt he would break Elio’s heart. I don’t think what he did was caring. Elio seemed more mature and loving to me than Oliver. Elio’s feelings were very clear at the end. He was a very smart and mature 17-year-old. And Oliver would have had great in-laws.
I agree with Alex. I saw the movie and just finished re-reading the book after reading it first years ago. The comment from Vimini stood out to me more than it did the first time and answered my question of did Oliver love Elio or just care for him a great deal. It seems he loved Elio a great deal and the idea of what that love could be more than he was comfortable. I think succumbing to the relationship terrified Oliver because he know he could never continue it into his real world and real life--even if Elio moved to the states for college and they found each other single years later--he was terrified of breaking Elio. Oliver came from a far more conservative family and him being in a relationship with a man is not something he could do in in the 80's...a story many men his age from that era and before often tragically accepted.
But how can Oliver be “terrified of breaking Elio” if that’s exactly what Oliver did? I don’t think there can be a question that Elio’s heart was broken.
Well, he did resist Elio at first, didn't he? He only succumbed after Elio wrote that note to him. Oliver wasn't a god, he didn't orchestrate this, he changed his mind a couple of times through the book. It was a tangled mess of emotions on his part, too. By "more perceptive" I mean he had a different perspective on things that you only get once you get older, set into the drill of professional work, social niceties - in general, being a full-time adult and being seen as such. Also, having experienced being a teenager and knowing how big a mental and emotional difference between that age and 24 is. As much as Elio was precocious, it's impossible not to see yourself as the one bearing the burden of responsibility when the situation involves a 17-year-old. Even if said 17-year-old shows all signs of being your kindred soul.
When Oliver succumbed at last, after Elio wrote that note to him, I think it was the moment he decided to risk treating Elio as an adult. That he was strong enough to take whatever happens. That it was better to live through that thing between them, whatever it was, instead of trying to act safe. „Grow up”, he wrote back, and it was up to Elio if he decided to show up at midnight under this condition.
I don't know, Dave. I don't think we're going to convince you here, and that's fine, I respect that. It's just that to me, there's incredible beauty and courage in being able to seize the moment and let yourself feel whatever life brings - not because you're blind to possible consequences, but in spite of them. I'm the "better to have loved and lost" kind of person, I guess. I had my heart broken a couple of times and I'm greatful to every person who broke it. I’d have been greatful to Oliver in Elio’s place, for letting me have my first love as fullfilled as it could be under the circumstances.
I hear you, Alex, and I respect your opinion as well. My Meyer's/Brigg's personality type though is advocate/counselor (I'm a lawyer), so I tend to be more thoughtful and protective, rather than acting based primarily on feelings. I think your feeling--that you are grateful to everyone who has broken your heart and would have been grateful to Oliver if you were Elio--is an uncommon one. I could never see myself ever doing that to a 17-year-old kid if I cared about him because I would worry about breaking his heart as well as my heart, especially knowing that I would be leaving. I also would not want to carry the weight and guilt of being the first person to break Elio's heart. That's just me.
Oh, OK, that explains a lot :) I am ENTP apparently, and whether the test's to be trusted or not, our answers must've differed on a lot of points. Nevertheless, that was an interesting discussion -- just goes to show how different our POVs can get, even though you'd think the narration of the story somewhat dictates the interpretation.You're probably right about this being an uncommon feeling :) I'm an odd one, what you gotta do
