Lois’s answer to “I love your work as many do. I was wondering if you ever plan to definitively end the Vorkosigan Se…” > Likes and Comments
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While I would happily purchase anything you chose to write about the Vorkosigan universe (and would be skeptical about continuations by others), I feel that you "ended" the series well. In fact, three different endings. Cyroburn "ended" Miles's journey by turning him into Count Vorkosigan. Then you went back and gave us a fill in the blank book with Ivan and gave him a happy ending. And finally, you answered the question of can Cordelia have a life after Aral, as she would probably have needed, given the difference in their ages and life expectancy. I see closure here. Obviously there are many different ways that you could choose to explore that universe, but I don't feel that you left things "unfinished", in the same way that, for example, the Name of the Wind trilogy is currently unfinished and will continue to be until/unless Rothfuss writes and publishes book 3.
I concur with Jerri. I absolutely love the Vorkosigan series with my whole heart. But while I would obviously LOVE more, I don't feel the series needs more - if that makes sense? Or to put it another way - if you never write any more, then I won't feel bereft.
A series that I do feel has over-run it's end point is David Weber's 'Honor Harrington' series - I struggled through the last two books I read (I believe it was one story split over 2 volumes), and I've resolved not to re-read them (though I'll happily re-read the rest of the series) or indeed look for any new ones, much as I love Honor and her treecat.
It is really hard to say what a true "ending" of a series or world is. As it has been said so eloquently above I also see the series as it stands as having its thematic threads concluded if not quite completely tied off. However I read an interview of yours or I heard it somewhere where you talked about knowing that Miles as a character would have a short life by modern galactic standards and that he wouldn't live into his 50's (though it may have been late 40"s). I have always pictured the series as not fully ending until Miles is really truly see-the-body dead. Maybe this will never be in any of the books, which would be fine, but Miles is so representative of the world in which he thrives that its hard for me to move on without that final closure. Just as old Piotr's death ended the first world presented in the books and Aral's death ended the second world, that of the regency, I see Miles's death as ending the age of adventure and honor. You have spoken about how you don't really see the idea of writing about Miles's kids as very appealing because their lives will be much more stable than that of Miles. Because of this I think the moment when Miles dies a little magic will go out of the world. I like final endings as much as I like beginnings. I love your work and I think Cryoburn was a great meditation on death, as you have called it in the past. I think because of that book I feel finally ready to say goodbye to Miles. Maybe that just means I would be ok with no more new Vorkosigan books, and maybe that means I'm ready for whatever his last adventure may yet be. Either way, thanks for answering my comment. Big Fan. Thanks. :) PS. One of your lines from Memory became my senior quote.
C. S. Lewis was often asked for more Narnia stories, but would answer on the order of 'There are two points at which one can stop doing something: before everyone is tired of it... or AFTER'. That said, the ending he wrote was about as definite as can be; the world (Narnia) ends, the sun goes out, the stars fall from the sky, Judgement Day divides the just from the unjust, and the just enter the heavenly kingdom. That really wraps things up.
Reading the first part of your comment I was about to reply with what is in the second part, until I finished reading it, but yes that is what I was hitting on with my comment. In Narnia you could write more stories, but why would you? In the Vorkosiverse you can write more stories and no work existing precludes that possibility. The Narnia books are all about the Pevensie children and we know their story beginning middle and end. Miles's story has an epic beginning, a vast and entertaining middle, but he has no final ending. In the same way all the Narnia books were about the Pevensie children but didn't always heavily feature them, the Vorkosigan books are all really about Miles, either they create the world he lives in or they create and recreate the man himself. Other characters are explored but without that world there would be no Miles Vorkosigan whereas I would argue that Cordelia, even Aral to a certain extent, existed before the world fully developed into its own reality.
at Andrew:
57.
Also, given your stated tastes, may I rec to your attention the manga Pandora Hearts.
Ta, L.
On further thinking, I am very glad that you didn't kill off Miles. As long as he is alive, the magic remains. One can think of him in the present. Like Lord Peter and Sherlock Holmes (in spite of attempts by the author in the case of SH), Miles is alive forever, in his own present.
Awe 57, thank you. I'm usually off on just about everything :) good to see the universe is being consistent. Thank you for the recommendation. I will have to try Pandora Hearts out.
I thought Red Queen was a strong ending, for all that it was about a new beginning. While I am nostalgic for new vorkosigan books and I'd be pleased to read anything you wrote in that world, I don't expect anything else. It feels done to me.
For me, this saga would end when Miles truly dies. However, the very thought of that breaks my heart, so I'm glad you have not (and most probably will not) write that story. Like Jerri said, this way he is still alive in my mind, enjoying his life, his family, and watching as Barrayar evolves.
For me the Vorkosigan saga has actually reached its end. The characters got well-deserved peace. Any further adventures for Miles or Cordelia will mean disrupting their current happy and more or less steady lives and I wouldn't want to read that. The next generation... to be honest I would prefer to read something new instead (in the world of the Five gods or an entirely new world).
More Miles? Yes please. Because the story needs an 'ending'? Nope; because they're great stories. Am I disappointed there's not more? No. While very tempted to say yes, the quality of the books shows that you write them when inspiration strikes rather than by a timetable and I'm happy to wait on the next one. By next week? Yes please!!!
I have always hoped for a book set quite a bit in the future, near the end of Miles' life perhaps, where all the slow fuses of change are set off and you bust out of the familiar. The Cetaganda/Barrayar alliance. The reform of Jackson's Whole. The biological renaissance. Aliens.
It would be a wonderful challenge and capstone to your career.
All of the books since Memory have brought in more closure. The end of Admiral Naismith is probably the biggest ending for me. It clearly differentiates the earlier "space opera" tales from the later more clearly psychological which really starts in Mirror Dance. And brother in Arms must have demanded to be written to conclude the Miles/Mark story. So that would have been a reasonable ending.
I have many shelves full of series that I bought for completeness rather than pleasure, and none of your books are in that section. I find each of the Miles books stands well on its own and is merely a richer feast with knowledge of earlier books.
I would love to see another Miles the Auditor story, but have no clue what sort of problem would be interesting to you. I suspect that makes at least two of us.
Thank you for giving us such great characters.
I'd have to say that I'm actually quite pleased with the Vorkosiverse as it stands. I feel the bookends of Cordelia's focus stories gives the whole a completeness that I find satisfying, though not fulfilling (I'd still love more but...). I've mentioned in this forum before that I see your current favor in story conveyance being a good fit for what's left if it were to continue. Shorts or novellas would be a great way to give the now diffracted view needed to cover the character's lives. I could see lot's of ways that small stories would be interesting to see into Gregor & Laisa's lives, follow Ivan & Tej, keep up with Alys & Simon as well as Duv & Delia with, of course, Miles & Ekaterine, and even get our follow ups with Cordelia, The Gentleman, and the kids. All this without even opening the wellspring that the kids would have for smaller/life adventures along the lines of CC or GJatRQ. I completely understand the urge to move on or leave a truly magnificent work alone lest one lessen it but it seems to me a few shorts sprinkled around the greater structure that is the main series would never lessen it. In the end, yes, I see it as complete but I'll always long for more and yearn for new tidbits as long as you continue to write. Of course, I'll also long for the new stories as well as they have yet to disappoint. Thank you!
All of my thoughts have already been voiced on this thread - the series feels complete as-is, with happy endings for Cordelia and Miles. It feels very appropriate to bookend the series with Cordelia, and I very much appreciate Miles still being alive - as Jerri said, you can still think of him in the present tense.
This is not to say I wouldn't devotedly read any short fiction in the Vorkosiverse, exploring bits of story that would benefit from further expansion, but I don't feel that any of it is needed for the series to feel complete. I think you've managed the same thing that Georgette Heyer consistently did - to leave the story at the first possible point, without anything unnecessary, which leaves the reader satisfied but still hoping for more.
Yay, much though I'd love more books, particularly starring the next generation as they find their own footing (Vorkosigans and Vorpatrils) the series does feel kind of 'done'
Er, darn autocorrect. That was a Yeah not Yay
I agree with the overall sentiments expressed above. While I'd be happy to read more Vorkosiverse stories -- I was rather looking forward to seeing what kind of mischief Miles' and Ekaterin's kids would get up to -- I'm content with the series as it stands. I did have the sense that the last three books were tying up loose ends and 'retiring' the various characters. I like the fact that none of these retirements is final: if you do have an idea for a new story, you can always write it. Thank you for creating so many great stories and characters -- and for inspiration: like Harry Turtledove's famous character, I tend to react in a crisis by thinking, what would Miles do? :)
How many planets have humans colonized in the Vorkosiverse? Life on how many planets but no intelligence. I am really curious how Lois would create and deal with aliens.
I liked *Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen* and *Captain Vorpatril's Alliance* especially. These are two of my favorite Vorkosigan books, partly because they are tidy endings and partly for the humor (Impsec HQ sinking was brilliant), but additionally, I would like at least a novella to show Miles's children growing up. And, by the way: "What happened to the plascrete mixer?", "What are Ivan's children like?", and "What about Gregor's family?" Details left unsolved bother me.
I have to join the Consensus: The story as it stands does not cry out for more books. But then again, until I read "Captain Vorpatril's Alliance," I didn't realize the_need_ for an Ivan focused work; it's one of my favorite books, ever. I read it, then immediately reread it, and _then_ went back and read it a third time, without taking any breaks. And have read it again numerous times since then. So if the inspiration strikes, i won't object to another Vorkosigan Universe story, but I'm not actively awaiting one.
@ Rick Ellrod - the concept of reacting to a crisis by thinking what Miles would do...... I hope I'm never standing close to you in a crisis..:D Miles's solutions often have um interesting fall-out. Other than that, I am happy with the series as it stands and very much liked the books that tied off neat ends. The idea that if the Cetagandan invasion hadn't happened, Aral might have been an architect was intriguing. I too would like to see the odd short story - one I'd fancy would be Alice and Simon deciding to have a child - that would be an interesting combo of genes. Also, I've always been intrigued by the Cetagandans and how they were rapidly self- evolving into something else - a short giving a glimpse of future Cetaganda could be intriguing.
I feel that a true “end” would be the death of Miles or Cordelia, but reading either would break my heart. So, I agree with you, Lois. Leave it as is. Thanks.
I love it staying open-ended, it lets me imagine so many possibilities. I must admit that, even if some ending were written I would still want more, I would just ask for interpolations. For instance, I would love a book of Aral vignettes: his pride when a survivor of Dagoola identifies Aral as Miles' father (Ekaterin and Miles overhear and Miles' reaction is...complex); a WInterfair where the adults are playing live action strategy games with Aral and Helen and Miles is surprised that his mother triumphs, and Aral says something about Miles having inherited her brilliance at strategy; a moment when Aral makes it clear that the only interest he has in money is as a means to his ends, and seeing that Mark completely agrees... and so much more. (Can you tell I love Aral?)
As a late addition to this thread, The only story I think I would like to see taken further might be Elli Quinn.
I think the story I'd like to read would center on Miles' daughter(s) taking on the Imperial Service Academy. Timing from their birth might lead to sometime near the end of Miles' expected span, if that's an important point.
*Of course, I'm quite biased in my choice here: I am a member of one of the first coed classes at one of the US service academies.)
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Jerri
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Jul 15, 2017 09:34AM
While I would happily purchase anything you chose to write about the Vorkosigan universe (and would be skeptical about continuations by others), I feel that you "ended" the series well. In fact, three different endings. Cyroburn "ended" Miles's journey by turning him into Count Vorkosigan. Then you went back and gave us a fill in the blank book with Ivan and gave him a happy ending. And finally, you answered the question of can Cordelia have a life after Aral, as she would probably have needed, given the difference in their ages and life expectancy. I see closure here. Obviously there are many different ways that you could choose to explore that universe, but I don't feel that you left things "unfinished", in the same way that, for example, the Name of the Wind trilogy is currently unfinished and will continue to be until/unless Rothfuss writes and publishes book 3.
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I concur with Jerri. I absolutely love the Vorkosigan series with my whole heart. But while I would obviously LOVE more, I don't feel the series needs more - if that makes sense? Or to put it another way - if you never write any more, then I won't feel bereft.A series that I do feel has over-run it's end point is David Weber's 'Honor Harrington' series - I struggled through the last two books I read (I believe it was one story split over 2 volumes), and I've resolved not to re-read them (though I'll happily re-read the rest of the series) or indeed look for any new ones, much as I love Honor and her treecat.
It is really hard to say what a true "ending" of a series or world is. As it has been said so eloquently above I also see the series as it stands as having its thematic threads concluded if not quite completely tied off. However I read an interview of yours or I heard it somewhere where you talked about knowing that Miles as a character would have a short life by modern galactic standards and that he wouldn't live into his 50's (though it may have been late 40"s). I have always pictured the series as not fully ending until Miles is really truly see-the-body dead. Maybe this will never be in any of the books, which would be fine, but Miles is so representative of the world in which he thrives that its hard for me to move on without that final closure. Just as old Piotr's death ended the first world presented in the books and Aral's death ended the second world, that of the regency, I see Miles's death as ending the age of adventure and honor. You have spoken about how you don't really see the idea of writing about Miles's kids as very appealing because their lives will be much more stable than that of Miles. Because of this I think the moment when Miles dies a little magic will go out of the world. I like final endings as much as I like beginnings. I love your work and I think Cryoburn was a great meditation on death, as you have called it in the past. I think because of that book I feel finally ready to say goodbye to Miles. Maybe that just means I would be ok with no more new Vorkosigan books, and maybe that means I'm ready for whatever his last adventure may yet be. Either way, thanks for answering my comment. Big Fan. Thanks. :) PS. One of your lines from Memory became my senior quote.
C. S. Lewis was often asked for more Narnia stories, but would answer on the order of 'There are two points at which one can stop doing something: before everyone is tired of it... or AFTER'. That said, the ending he wrote was about as definite as can be; the world (Narnia) ends, the sun goes out, the stars fall from the sky, Judgement Day divides the just from the unjust, and the just enter the heavenly kingdom. That really wraps things up.
Reading the first part of your comment I was about to reply with what is in the second part, until I finished reading it, but yes that is what I was hitting on with my comment. In Narnia you could write more stories, but why would you? In the Vorkosiverse you can write more stories and no work existing precludes that possibility. The Narnia books are all about the Pevensie children and we know their story beginning middle and end. Miles's story has an epic beginning, a vast and entertaining middle, but he has no final ending. In the same way all the Narnia books were about the Pevensie children but didn't always heavily feature them, the Vorkosigan books are all really about Miles, either they create the world he lives in or they create and recreate the man himself. Other characters are explored but without that world there would be no Miles Vorkosigan whereas I would argue that Cordelia, even Aral to a certain extent, existed before the world fully developed into its own reality.
at Andrew:57.
Also, given your stated tastes, may I rec to your attention the manga Pandora Hearts.
Ta, L.
On further thinking, I am very glad that you didn't kill off Miles. As long as he is alive, the magic remains. One can think of him in the present. Like Lord Peter and Sherlock Holmes (in spite of attempts by the author in the case of SH), Miles is alive forever, in his own present.
Awe 57, thank you. I'm usually off on just about everything :) good to see the universe is being consistent. Thank you for the recommendation. I will have to try Pandora Hearts out.
I thought Red Queen was a strong ending, for all that it was about a new beginning. While I am nostalgic for new vorkosigan books and I'd be pleased to read anything you wrote in that world, I don't expect anything else. It feels done to me.
For me, this saga would end when Miles truly dies. However, the very thought of that breaks my heart, so I'm glad you have not (and most probably will not) write that story. Like Jerri said, this way he is still alive in my mind, enjoying his life, his family, and watching as Barrayar evolves.
For me the Vorkosigan saga has actually reached its end. The characters got well-deserved peace. Any further adventures for Miles or Cordelia will mean disrupting their current happy and more or less steady lives and I wouldn't want to read that. The next generation... to be honest I would prefer to read something new instead (in the world of the Five gods or an entirely new world).
More Miles? Yes please. Because the story needs an 'ending'? Nope; because they're great stories. Am I disappointed there's not more? No. While very tempted to say yes, the quality of the books shows that you write them when inspiration strikes rather than by a timetable and I'm happy to wait on the next one. By next week? Yes please!!!
I have always hoped for a book set quite a bit in the future, near the end of Miles' life perhaps, where all the slow fuses of change are set off and you bust out of the familiar. The Cetaganda/Barrayar alliance. The reform of Jackson's Whole. The biological renaissance. Aliens.It would be a wonderful challenge and capstone to your career.
All of the books since Memory have brought in more closure. The end of Admiral Naismith is probably the biggest ending for me. It clearly differentiates the earlier "space opera" tales from the later more clearly psychological which really starts in Mirror Dance. And brother in Arms must have demanded to be written to conclude the Miles/Mark story. So that would have been a reasonable ending. I have many shelves full of series that I bought for completeness rather than pleasure, and none of your books are in that section. I find each of the Miles books stands well on its own and is merely a richer feast with knowledge of earlier books.
I would love to see another Miles the Auditor story, but have no clue what sort of problem would be interesting to you. I suspect that makes at least two of us.
Thank you for giving us such great characters.
I'd have to say that I'm actually quite pleased with the Vorkosiverse as it stands. I feel the bookends of Cordelia's focus stories gives the whole a completeness that I find satisfying, though not fulfilling (I'd still love more but...). I've mentioned in this forum before that I see your current favor in story conveyance being a good fit for what's left if it were to continue. Shorts or novellas would be a great way to give the now diffracted view needed to cover the character's lives. I could see lot's of ways that small stories would be interesting to see into Gregor & Laisa's lives, follow Ivan & Tej, keep up with Alys & Simon as well as Duv & Delia with, of course, Miles & Ekaterine, and even get our follow ups with Cordelia, The Gentleman, and the kids. All this without even opening the wellspring that the kids would have for smaller/life adventures along the lines of CC or GJatRQ. I completely understand the urge to move on or leave a truly magnificent work alone lest one lessen it but it seems to me a few shorts sprinkled around the greater structure that is the main series would never lessen it. In the end, yes, I see it as complete but I'll always long for more and yearn for new tidbits as long as you continue to write. Of course, I'll also long for the new stories as well as they have yet to disappoint. Thank you!
All of my thoughts have already been voiced on this thread - the series feels complete as-is, with happy endings for Cordelia and Miles. It feels very appropriate to bookend the series with Cordelia, and I very much appreciate Miles still being alive - as Jerri said, you can still think of him in the present tense.This is not to say I wouldn't devotedly read any short fiction in the Vorkosiverse, exploring bits of story that would benefit from further expansion, but I don't feel that any of it is needed for the series to feel complete. I think you've managed the same thing that Georgette Heyer consistently did - to leave the story at the first possible point, without anything unnecessary, which leaves the reader satisfied but still hoping for more.
Yay, much though I'd love more books, particularly starring the next generation as they find their own footing (Vorkosigans and Vorpatrils) the series does feel kind of 'done'
Er, darn autocorrect. That was a Yeah not Yay
I agree with the overall sentiments expressed above. While I'd be happy to read more Vorkosiverse stories -- I was rather looking forward to seeing what kind of mischief Miles' and Ekaterin's kids would get up to -- I'm content with the series as it stands. I did have the sense that the last three books were tying up loose ends and 'retiring' the various characters. I like the fact that none of these retirements is final: if you do have an idea for a new story, you can always write it. Thank you for creating so many great stories and characters -- and for inspiration: like Harry Turtledove's famous character, I tend to react in a crisis by thinking, what would Miles do? :)
How many planets have humans colonized in the Vorkosiverse? Life on how many planets but no intelligence. I am really curious how Lois would create and deal with aliens.
I liked *Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen* and *Captain Vorpatril's Alliance* especially. These are two of my favorite Vorkosigan books, partly because they are tidy endings and partly for the humor (Impsec HQ sinking was brilliant), but additionally, I would like at least a novella to show Miles's children growing up. And, by the way: "What happened to the plascrete mixer?", "What are Ivan's children like?", and "What about Gregor's family?" Details left unsolved bother me.
I have to join the Consensus: The story as it stands does not cry out for more books. But then again, until I read "Captain Vorpatril's Alliance," I didn't realize the_need_ for an Ivan focused work; it's one of my favorite books, ever. I read it, then immediately reread it, and _then_ went back and read it a third time, without taking any breaks. And have read it again numerous times since then. So if the inspiration strikes, i won't object to another Vorkosigan Universe story, but I'm not actively awaiting one.
@ Rick Ellrod - the concept of reacting to a crisis by thinking what Miles would do...... I hope I'm never standing close to you in a crisis..:D Miles's solutions often have um interesting fall-out. Other than that, I am happy with the series as it stands and very much liked the books that tied off neat ends. The idea that if the Cetagandan invasion hadn't happened, Aral might have been an architect was intriguing. I too would like to see the odd short story - one I'd fancy would be Alice and Simon deciding to have a child - that would be an interesting combo of genes. Also, I've always been intrigued by the Cetagandans and how they were rapidly self- evolving into something else - a short giving a glimpse of future Cetaganda could be intriguing.
I feel that a true “end” would be the death of Miles or Cordelia, but reading either would break my heart. So, I agree with you, Lois. Leave it as is. Thanks.
I love it staying open-ended, it lets me imagine so many possibilities. I must admit that, even if some ending were written I would still want more, I would just ask for interpolations. For instance, I would love a book of Aral vignettes: his pride when a survivor of Dagoola identifies Aral as Miles' father (Ekaterin and Miles overhear and Miles' reaction is...complex); a WInterfair where the adults are playing live action strategy games with Aral and Helen and Miles is surprised that his mother triumphs, and Aral says something about Miles having inherited her brilliance at strategy; a moment when Aral makes it clear that the only interest he has in money is as a means to his ends, and seeing that Mark completely agrees... and so much more. (Can you tell I love Aral?)
As a late addition to this thread, The only story I think I would like to see taken further might be Elli Quinn.
I think the story I'd like to read would center on Miles' daughter(s) taking on the Imperial Service Academy. Timing from their birth might lead to sometime near the end of Miles' expected span, if that's an important point.*Of course, I'm quite biased in my choice here: I am a member of one of the first coed classes at one of the US service academies.)
