Russell’s answer to “When can we expect a release date?” > Likes and Comments
382 likes · Like
I guess you should have invested money in the book when he was unknown and unpublished.
Just saying it isn't unreasonable to be annoyed. I'ts not like we're suggesting the guy get thrown in jail for taking a long time to write the book, we're expressing dissatisfaction with the length of time it is taking. I think that's fair.
But you didn't pay for the steak yet, so you can just leave. And then someday, when you least expect it, the waiter will come to your house and say, "Hello, sir, can I interest you in the steak you've always wanted?" I, for one, would definitely buy the steak, because I love steak.
All I am saying is, if you get me in the door by offering to let me buy a drink, an appetizer and an entree and you deliver the drink, then the appetizer and then keep pushing the goalpost on getting me the entree, at a certain point, you've failed to live up to your end of the bargain in luring me in with the entree. Everyone has their own breaking point and its acceptable to complain if you feel your wait has been too long, whether you've paid yet or not. It's about reasonable expectations. He sold us on the promise of a trilogy and has not delivered after what I consider an unreasonable period of time. Those are my feelings and I am entitled to them. He isn't my bitch and he can break my expectations, but it doesn't mean I am unjustified in my disappointment or impatience. That's all I am saying.
That analogy is terribly stupid.
You went to that restaurant that day and enjoyed your dinner. Now the restaurant is closed and you can't go again to have another meal. You're not entitled to anything. Get over it.
Ruben: It was advertised as a trilogy and I am still waiting for the third part of the trilogy. Each part is a part of the meal. And yes, I am entitled to my own feelings, you jerk. I am entitled to be disappointed that the book has not come out. Get over the fact that I feel let down and annoyed by not having the third book yet. He doesn't have to ever come out with the third one, and I'm allowed to hate him for that, if I so choose.
No. You pay for each book separately because each one is a product unto itself. No. He does not have any obligation to meet some deadline perceived by fans. You CHOSE to purchase something that is incomplete. That is YOUR fault. God between the Pat Rothfuss whiners and the GRRM crybabies I'm becoming very sick of fantasy fans. SO GODDAMN ENTITLED.
Joey, it was sold as a trilogy. That is how it has been marketed and sold. That is undeniable.
Again, nobody is saying he is required to make and release the third book, you little brat. I am merely saying that I AM ENTITLED TO MY OWN FEELINGS AND OPINIONS ON THE MATTER. I feel that he owes the book to us, and that is my OPINION on the subject. I feel that what he has done is ethically murky and that his fans are deserving of the third book that they were promised, in a timely manner. That, again, is my OPINION. I am not claiming it to be a statement of fact.
You cannot and will not ever dictate my emotions and feelings to me. Pat Rothfuss is free to never publish another book again. He can become a goat herder and live as a recluse atop the peak of a mountain if that's how he wants to live his life, but I will feel cheated if he does that.
Stop trying to dictate peoples feelings and opinions to them, you rude, ignorant punk.
Terrible analogy
Entitled to your opinion - of course - everybody is
Without patience - don'the start unfinished series
Any "unfinished product" is up for cancellation - what if you were the only one to buy the first two.... would you then be entitled to the last one... Jesus.... talk about self-centered... the man (Pat) could have folded with stress or anything similar - should he then still be obliged to finish it...
Watch the blood pressure and chill - oh have a really nice day
Damn - should really use a couple of period signs when typing from my phone ;)
However my point still stands - you have no guarantees when buying an unfinished series of books.
Very true and well said!! I hate when good authors like rothfuss and martin start and don't finish! it makes me feel cheated and disappointed.
Get over it or stop buying unfinished series - it is up to the author/publisher whether or not to finish it.... again ... if it sells one copy should they still finish a series of say five books.... Really you don't buy the authors soul
Yes, it is "billed as a trilogy". However, the books stand alone as works of literature.
I am waiting as eagerly as everyone else. But I knew when I started the books that the series was not finished, and I started them anyway.
If you don't like the delay, then you can vote with your pocketbook and refuse to buy the third book. You're not being cheated of anything... you got the two books that you paid for.
I paid a $1000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 over a year in advance, with the stated understanding that they would be ready for the market by the end of this year. Now if Elon Musk can't deliver on that promise, I have something to complain about because he's been holding my money for a year to make that production happen on that promised timeline.
Big difference.
As I read your analogy, I can't help but think back to Kvothe and Lethe, when Kvothe attempted to defend the concept of "man-mothers" with a faulty analogy. And soon after that to the men of Levinshir - both Jason ("what's worse, a broken arm, or getting kidnapped by strangers and raped four times a night?") and the stout man more concerned about getting his ale back rather than celebrating the safe return of two young girls.
I don't think Rothfuss has ill will when he delays this book. If I were to adopt your restaurant analogy, I'd say he's terrified of burning the steak. Perhaps he's already done so multiple times, and the reason he hasn't served his ever petulant customers yet is because he is still sweating over the grill and refuses to serve burnt steak.
What's a man to do? Hurry him, and we hurry on the creation of another burnt steak.
I'm still reading The Wise Man's Fear, so my patience reserves are still filled to the brim. I'm not sure what else to say to you, other than that patience and losing hope are the only ways I see out of this frustrating scenario.
Why does it not surprise me that someone who is so petulant towards an author whom he loves would resort to name calling? Ha.
I was expressing an opinion as well, and never said anything that implies you aren't entitled to your own. I just noted that you feel entitled to far more than an opinion: Years of another mans life.
"Again, nobody is saying he is required to make and release the third book, you little brat. I am merely saying that I AM ENTITLED TO MY OWN FEELINGS AND OPINIONS ON THE MATTER. I feel that he owes the book to us, and that is my OPINION.." Also, this is contradictory.
Actually each book is sold separately
My god - just enjoy what he has already given you
These books are an artistic and creative process, not your next fucking steak dinner.
Everyone loves the books, we are just getting impatient in a way, the book is going to be awesome, it better be :D Lets just forget about the release, doesnt matter anymore i guess. Whatever he is doing, it is probably important work, but dude, make it happen already :P
Everyone loves the books, we are just getting impatient in a way, the book is going to be awesome, it better be :D Lets just forget about the release, doesnt matter anymore i guess. Whatever he is doing, it is probably important work, but dude, make it happen already :P
So you've bought doors of stone already have you? No, you've not. You knew the 3rd book wasnt written when you bought the first. Stop being a little bitch.
You people are weird. If this applied to anything other than authors, people would be pissed, but people for some reason put authors in some sort of bubble. It's a job, like any other. It needs to meet certain standards and requirements.
Russel is completely right, this is about reasonable expectations. Nobody is forcing Pathrick to publish a book, but if he repeatedly claims a publication date, which he then keeps delaying again and again, at a certain point you are more than entitled to express your disappointment as a thus far faithful customer. The fact is that he did announce release dates that he missed, and the fact is that the publishing business is murky and deliberately keeps finished books in limbo to build up hype and maximize sales. But if you make a promise to deliver a book at a certain date, and you don't, you've failed your customers. It's as simple as that.
Then stop buying books from the author - he has no legal obligation to release it - at least not in regard to the readers...
Each book is a product itself. Pathrick and his publisher will release the book when they want and if they want. So don't throw tantrums and let him do his job, if he want and when he wants. The comparison you do is also pathetic, simple and not a similar case.
Rothfuss did 200+ takes on his first novel, and it went on to sweep the world. Every author is different -- you can't force art or you get schlock.
Your dissatisfaction with the time it takes for the book to be published is entirely your own concern and, frankly, Rothfuss can do whatever the hell he wants with his own series.
Victor Lara: He is free to disappoint his customers and I am free to be unhappy about it.
I'm frankly amazed by the sheer amount of "You haven't bought the third book yet" comments regarding the analogy seeing as it is just that, an analogy. He has invested TIME INTEREST and EMOTIONS into this series.. a series written from start to 2/3 finished in a way leading to heavy expectations as to what happens in the end.. how Kvothe becomes a King Killer, how he rescues Denna (presumably) from a demon and "kills an angel". And how he became an innkeeper unable to perform simple sympathy.
Leaving the series in this state would be really bitter..
That being said... leaving behind my frustration from these comments, i would prefer the last book to match Patrick's excellent standards, but i am frankly afraid that he will never be satisfied. I believe he can't be satisfied fitting that much content into a book he feels should be shorter than the second, and i believe he can not divide the last book into two different ones because he wants each book to be one day each in the frame story.
Are readers of an author 'customers'? Are viewers of art 'customers'? Has our culture commodified *everything*? Tragic.
Kineta: I paid for the book, so yes, I am a customer, and it is a product.
He commodified it when he accepted my money in exchange for a product that he created.
Russell, that is a ridiculous and entitled attitude. Authors, artists, are not making widgets for your consumption. I suggest you just never start reading an unfinished series if you can't deal with waiting..
Can you imagine all the s*** George R.R. Martin is taking?...
That's not the way art works. You're not a customer. You're a patron.
This is why I don't start a series until all the books are out. GRRM taught me that lesson. I don't even care anymore when his last book comes out; I'd have to go back and read the others over again and it's just not worth it. So thanks for warning me all of you, I won't be starting this trilogy yet.
I would just not care when the third book is due ... save for the fact that the first two are FRIGGIN MAGIC! Seriously, the best fantasy books I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I hope I live long enough to read the ending.
Bahaha your analogy is crap. I'm entitled to my opinion that you are daft.
Russel, your OPINION is ridiculous to the point of absurdity. You cannot liken good literature to a good steak dinner in terms of how quickly it is produced. That is moronic. Food is done cooking in a more or less specific time frame. Art, literature, etc is only produced on a specific time table for those who are open to the acceptance of mediocrity. So, while your OPINION is valid to you, it is an obviously weak and immature one.
Goodreads is telling me this comment was posted one year ago, and there's still no release date. I guess I can always look forward to A Dream of Spring in the meantime...
literature just isn't the same as a dinner steak, guuuuy
Shades of Stephen King?...…. Gunslinger.... Just sayin'
Do you remember where it was marketed as a complete trilogy? Inside the store? Online?
He said it himself, got to his facebook page or look up his interviews on youtube.
I feel you're entitled to be disappointed, and I'm disappointed to. But I also feel as if your analogy, and reasoning is slightly flawed. It's more or less as if you've been promised you can order the steak, but you haven't payed for it. You want the steak, and you've already built up an appetite for the steak, the first two dishes were amazing, but now the restaurant doesn't have a steak, but it has an 150 page chicken tender dish.
I agree, disappointment is a perfect reaction, it's natural. You were told you could have a steak, but I don't feel the restaurant is obligated to sell you one. It'll gain a reputation as a terrible restaurant, but that's about it.
And trust me, I'm disappointed, and I think the restaurant blows.
nah. the analogy is fine. it's more like you've been promised you can order a steak, and based on that you buy all of the trimmings that lead up to a steak. If you had not been promised you could order a steak, you would not have ordered all the other stuff. you would have gotten something else. because unfortunately, the trimmings that come with the steak do not go with anything else on the menu. so you can't make a substitution. you are stuck having eaten all the other stuff that leads to a steak... got your appetite up, took an extra shot of insulin (because in this fictional universe the steak for some reason requires it. suspend your disbelief for the analogy) or and the restaurant won't even give you a refund. and can't undo the food you already ate. Can't undo the extra medication you took to be able to eat that steak. and now you are just left out having paid for a potato and so forth, unfulfilled. Having wasted your money.
What I'm trying to say is this: even if Patrick offered us a refund for the first 2 books, it would do no good. the story has been read. Pandora's box has been opened. I can't unread the first 2 books and return to blissful ignorance. forever I will be haunted by the unfinished story. I can't get that time back, I can't get the ending, I can't get my money back. I can't even say I am satisfied and gained anything from the first 2 books because the story is incomplete. It is the same as having read only the first 3 chapters of the first book enjoyed them, but had the rest of the book snatched away.
at least if he is not going to finish it, he could release the plot. just tell us how it was supposed to end so we'd have closure
Russell - thank you for this post. This is exactly how I feel. I believe George RR Martin has started a trend that authors believe this type of behavior is Okay and its not. I do not find it a coincidence that before these series become best sellers they have no problem getting the books out (with good quality) in a timely matter. Its after they have $$ is when all of a sudden there is a "quality" delay. I say B.S. to that. Brandon Sanderson is able to put out top quality and extremely lengthily books in a timely manner. There are many other authors who do this. Its the readers who buy the books who give you the wealth, you owe them.
back to top
message 1:
by
Jeremy
(new)
Sep 13, 2016 05:29AM
I guess you should have invested money in the book when he was unknown and unpublished.
reply
|
flag
Just saying it isn't unreasonable to be annoyed. I'ts not like we're suggesting the guy get thrown in jail for taking a long time to write the book, we're expressing dissatisfaction with the length of time it is taking. I think that's fair.
But you didn't pay for the steak yet, so you can just leave. And then someday, when you least expect it, the waiter will come to your house and say, "Hello, sir, can I interest you in the steak you've always wanted?" I, for one, would definitely buy the steak, because I love steak.
All I am saying is, if you get me in the door by offering to let me buy a drink, an appetizer and an entree and you deliver the drink, then the appetizer and then keep pushing the goalpost on getting me the entree, at a certain point, you've failed to live up to your end of the bargain in luring me in with the entree. Everyone has their own breaking point and its acceptable to complain if you feel your wait has been too long, whether you've paid yet or not. It's about reasonable expectations. He sold us on the promise of a trilogy and has not delivered after what I consider an unreasonable period of time. Those are my feelings and I am entitled to them. He isn't my bitch and he can break my expectations, but it doesn't mean I am unjustified in my disappointment or impatience. That's all I am saying.
That analogy is terribly stupid. You went to that restaurant that day and enjoyed your dinner. Now the restaurant is closed and you can't go again to have another meal. You're not entitled to anything. Get over it.
Ruben: It was advertised as a trilogy and I am still waiting for the third part of the trilogy. Each part is a part of the meal. And yes, I am entitled to my own feelings, you jerk. I am entitled to be disappointed that the book has not come out. Get over the fact that I feel let down and annoyed by not having the third book yet. He doesn't have to ever come out with the third one, and I'm allowed to hate him for that, if I so choose.
No. You pay for each book separately because each one is a product unto itself. No. He does not have any obligation to meet some deadline perceived by fans. You CHOSE to purchase something that is incomplete. That is YOUR fault. God between the Pat Rothfuss whiners and the GRRM crybabies I'm becoming very sick of fantasy fans. SO GODDAMN ENTITLED.
Joey, it was sold as a trilogy. That is how it has been marketed and sold. That is undeniable. Again, nobody is saying he is required to make and release the third book, you little brat. I am merely saying that I AM ENTITLED TO MY OWN FEELINGS AND OPINIONS ON THE MATTER. I feel that he owes the book to us, and that is my OPINION on the subject. I feel that what he has done is ethically murky and that his fans are deserving of the third book that they were promised, in a timely manner. That, again, is my OPINION. I am not claiming it to be a statement of fact.
You cannot and will not ever dictate my emotions and feelings to me. Pat Rothfuss is free to never publish another book again. He can become a goat herder and live as a recluse atop the peak of a mountain if that's how he wants to live his life, but I will feel cheated if he does that.
Stop trying to dictate peoples feelings and opinions to them, you rude, ignorant punk.
Terrible analogyEntitled to your opinion - of course - everybody is
Without patience - don'the start unfinished series
Any "unfinished product" is up for cancellation - what if you were the only one to buy the first two.... would you then be entitled to the last one... Jesus.... talk about self-centered... the man (Pat) could have folded with stress or anything similar - should he then still be obliged to finish it...
Watch the blood pressure and chill - oh have a really nice day
Damn - should really use a couple of period signs when typing from my phone ;)However my point still stands - you have no guarantees when buying an unfinished series of books.
Very true and well said!! I hate when good authors like rothfuss and martin start and don't finish! it makes me feel cheated and disappointed.
Get over it or stop buying unfinished series - it is up to the author/publisher whether or not to finish it.... again ... if it sells one copy should they still finish a series of say five books.... Really you don't buy the authors soul
Yes, it is "billed as a trilogy". However, the books stand alone as works of literature.I am waiting as eagerly as everyone else. But I knew when I started the books that the series was not finished, and I started them anyway.
If you don't like the delay, then you can vote with your pocketbook and refuse to buy the third book. You're not being cheated of anything... you got the two books that you paid for.
I paid a $1000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 over a year in advance, with the stated understanding that they would be ready for the market by the end of this year. Now if Elon Musk can't deliver on that promise, I have something to complain about because he's been holding my money for a year to make that production happen on that promised timeline.
Big difference.
As I read your analogy, I can't help but think back to Kvothe and Lethe, when Kvothe attempted to defend the concept of "man-mothers" with a faulty analogy. And soon after that to the men of Levinshir - both Jason ("what's worse, a broken arm, or getting kidnapped by strangers and raped four times a night?") and the stout man more concerned about getting his ale back rather than celebrating the safe return of two young girls. I don't think Rothfuss has ill will when he delays this book. If I were to adopt your restaurant analogy, I'd say he's terrified of burning the steak. Perhaps he's already done so multiple times, and the reason he hasn't served his ever petulant customers yet is because he is still sweating over the grill and refuses to serve burnt steak.
What's a man to do? Hurry him, and we hurry on the creation of another burnt steak.
I'm still reading The Wise Man's Fear, so my patience reserves are still filled to the brim. I'm not sure what else to say to you, other than that patience and losing hope are the only ways I see out of this frustrating scenario.
Why does it not surprise me that someone who is so petulant towards an author whom he loves would resort to name calling? Ha.
I was expressing an opinion as well, and never said anything that implies you aren't entitled to your own. I just noted that you feel entitled to far more than an opinion: Years of another mans life.
"Again, nobody is saying he is required to make and release the third book, you little brat. I am merely saying that I AM ENTITLED TO MY OWN FEELINGS AND OPINIONS ON THE MATTER. I feel that he owes the book to us, and that is my OPINION.." Also, this is contradictory.
Actually each book is sold separately
My god - just enjoy what he has already given you
These books are an artistic and creative process, not your next fucking steak dinner.
Everyone loves the books, we are just getting impatient in a way, the book is going to be awesome, it better be :D Lets just forget about the release, doesnt matter anymore i guess. Whatever he is doing, it is probably important work, but dude, make it happen already :P
Everyone loves the books, we are just getting impatient in a way, the book is going to be awesome, it better be :D Lets just forget about the release, doesnt matter anymore i guess. Whatever he is doing, it is probably important work, but dude, make it happen already :P
So you've bought doors of stone already have you? No, you've not. You knew the 3rd book wasnt written when you bought the first. Stop being a little bitch.
You people are weird. If this applied to anything other than authors, people would be pissed, but people for some reason put authors in some sort of bubble. It's a job, like any other. It needs to meet certain standards and requirements. Russel is completely right, this is about reasonable expectations. Nobody is forcing Pathrick to publish a book, but if he repeatedly claims a publication date, which he then keeps delaying again and again, at a certain point you are more than entitled to express your disappointment as a thus far faithful customer. The fact is that he did announce release dates that he missed, and the fact is that the publishing business is murky and deliberately keeps finished books in limbo to build up hype and maximize sales. But if you make a promise to deliver a book at a certain date, and you don't, you've failed your customers. It's as simple as that.
Then stop buying books from the author - he has no legal obligation to release it - at least not in regard to the readers...
Each book is a product itself. Pathrick and his publisher will release the book when they want and if they want. So don't throw tantrums and let him do his job, if he want and when he wants. The comparison you do is also pathetic, simple and not a similar case.
Rothfuss did 200+ takes on his first novel, and it went on to sweep the world. Every author is different -- you can't force art or you get schlock.
Your dissatisfaction with the time it takes for the book to be published is entirely your own concern and, frankly, Rothfuss can do whatever the hell he wants with his own series.
Victor Lara: He is free to disappoint his customers and I am free to be unhappy about it.
I'm frankly amazed by the sheer amount of "You haven't bought the third book yet" comments regarding the analogy seeing as it is just that, an analogy. He has invested TIME INTEREST and EMOTIONS into this series.. a series written from start to 2/3 finished in a way leading to heavy expectations as to what happens in the end.. how Kvothe becomes a King Killer, how he rescues Denna (presumably) from a demon and "kills an angel". And how he became an innkeeper unable to perform simple sympathy.Leaving the series in this state would be really bitter..
That being said... leaving behind my frustration from these comments, i would prefer the last book to match Patrick's excellent standards, but i am frankly afraid that he will never be satisfied. I believe he can't be satisfied fitting that much content into a book he feels should be shorter than the second, and i believe he can not divide the last book into two different ones because he wants each book to be one day each in the frame story.
Are readers of an author 'customers'? Are viewers of art 'customers'? Has our culture commodified *everything*? Tragic.
Kineta: I paid for the book, so yes, I am a customer, and it is a product.He commodified it when he accepted my money in exchange for a product that he created.
Russell, that is a ridiculous and entitled attitude. Authors, artists, are not making widgets for your consumption. I suggest you just never start reading an unfinished series if you can't deal with waiting..
Can you imagine all the s*** George R.R. Martin is taking?...
That's not the way art works. You're not a customer. You're a patron.
This is why I don't start a series until all the books are out. GRRM taught me that lesson. I don't even care anymore when his last book comes out; I'd have to go back and read the others over again and it's just not worth it. So thanks for warning me all of you, I won't be starting this trilogy yet.
I would just not care when the third book is due ... save for the fact that the first two are FRIGGIN MAGIC! Seriously, the best fantasy books I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I hope I live long enough to read the ending.
Bahaha your analogy is crap. I'm entitled to my opinion that you are daft.
Russel, your OPINION is ridiculous to the point of absurdity. You cannot liken good literature to a good steak dinner in terms of how quickly it is produced. That is moronic. Food is done cooking in a more or less specific time frame. Art, literature, etc is only produced on a specific time table for those who are open to the acceptance of mediocrity. So, while your OPINION is valid to you, it is an obviously weak and immature one.
Goodreads is telling me this comment was posted one year ago, and there's still no release date. I guess I can always look forward to A Dream of Spring in the meantime...
literature just isn't the same as a dinner steak, guuuuy
Shades of Stephen King?...…. Gunslinger.... Just sayin'
Do you remember where it was marketed as a complete trilogy? Inside the store? Online?
He said it himself, got to his facebook page or look up his interviews on youtube.
I feel you're entitled to be disappointed, and I'm disappointed to. But I also feel as if your analogy, and reasoning is slightly flawed. It's more or less as if you've been promised you can order the steak, but you haven't payed for it. You want the steak, and you've already built up an appetite for the steak, the first two dishes were amazing, but now the restaurant doesn't have a steak, but it has an 150 page chicken tender dish.I agree, disappointment is a perfect reaction, it's natural. You were told you could have a steak, but I don't feel the restaurant is obligated to sell you one. It'll gain a reputation as a terrible restaurant, but that's about it.
And trust me, I'm disappointed, and I think the restaurant blows.
nah. the analogy is fine. it's more like you've been promised you can order a steak, and based on that you buy all of the trimmings that lead up to a steak. If you had not been promised you could order a steak, you would not have ordered all the other stuff. you would have gotten something else. because unfortunately, the trimmings that come with the steak do not go with anything else on the menu. so you can't make a substitution. you are stuck having eaten all the other stuff that leads to a steak... got your appetite up, took an extra shot of insulin (because in this fictional universe the steak for some reason requires it. suspend your disbelief for the analogy) or and the restaurant won't even give you a refund. and can't undo the food you already ate. Can't undo the extra medication you took to be able to eat that steak. and now you are just left out having paid for a potato and so forth, unfulfilled. Having wasted your money. What I'm trying to say is this: even if Patrick offered us a refund for the first 2 books, it would do no good. the story has been read. Pandora's box has been opened. I can't unread the first 2 books and return to blissful ignorance. forever I will be haunted by the unfinished story. I can't get that time back, I can't get the ending, I can't get my money back. I can't even say I am satisfied and gained anything from the first 2 books because the story is incomplete. It is the same as having read only the first 3 chapters of the first book enjoyed them, but had the rest of the book snatched away.
at least if he is not going to finish it, he could release the plot. just tell us how it was supposed to end so we'd have closure
Russell - thank you for this post. This is exactly how I feel. I believe George RR Martin has started a trend that authors believe this type of behavior is Okay and its not. I do not find it a coincidence that before these series become best sellers they have no problem getting the books out (with good quality) in a timely matter. Its after they have $$ is when all of a sudden there is a "quality" delay. I say B.S. to that. Brandon Sanderson is able to put out top quality and extremely lengthily books in a timely manner. There are many other authors who do this. Its the readers who buy the books who give you the wealth, you owe them.
